[Closed] Will religion ever die out and make the world a better place?

I actually think it is more likely that people will rebel against science than it will against religion.

I'm constantly trying to rebel against the laws of physics. Sadly physics always wins.

Don't want to piss on your chips Spin but there was a huge amount of religious and spiritual references in Star Trek...

Wars are usually about a number of things not just religion however having god on your side can be quite the excuse to do really, really awful things. I hope religion dies, I know it will not.

Don't want to piss on your chips Spin but there was a huge amount of religious and spiritual references in Star Trek

Don't recall any jews, muslims or christians though.

Muslamic ray guns maybe...

I was thinking more of Vulcans...

Actually that's one I missed of my post in the guilty pleasures thread. I really love some of the Star Trek output!

I see no reason to "tolerate" religion. It's vacuous gibberish, responsible for indoctrinating children into dogma and holds back the human race from facing up to it's real condition. We're born, we live, we die. Grow up and deal with it.

If you don't like me saying it, that's your problem. Likewise on behalf of the two great men heirin abused. 😛

Science doesn't have all the answers to all the questions.

As Dara O'Brian said, "science knows it doesn't have all the answers, otherwise it'd stop."

but where do all the calculators go?

Silicon heaven, clearly.

This "religion is the cause of all wars" thing is becoming something of an easy excuse for not looking into the true causes of war, which I think are power and greed, amongst other things. It's almost being used by some atheists to excuse themselves of any responsibility for current unrest in the world.

Religion doesn't cause wars.

It is, however, often a bloody good excuse for one.

religion has the answer to the one big question, which science does not I.e. what happens after we die.

No.

Religion [i]claims [/i]to have the answer to that question. Big, big difference.

Religions are artificial constructs to unite people in single cause so whilst religions may disappear country's and ideologies, Marxism, capitalism etc won't.
Unless we can have a no ideology ideology but imagine even that would have its opponents.

Likewise on behalf of the two great men heirin abused.

Who?

If people find peace and hope in faith, then that's a good thing. If Catholic priests abuse children, then that's a bad thing. Organised religion can abuse its power and corrupt innocents, which is surely the epitome of evil. That crap must be eliminated from modern society.

jamj1974 - Member

I was thinking more of Vulcans...

Vulcans are Buddhist with their logical thinking.

😀

So lets just say there is no religion and there never was any from day dot. In that ideal world would all the shortcomings of mankind not exist. Far from it men would still kill take that which is not theirs and oppress their fellow men. We just have to accept that many people out there are good decent humans but many aren't and those are the ones you're gonna hear about cos Mr and Mrs Regular just ain't interesting enough.

religion has the answer to the one big question, which science does not I.e. what happens after we die.

slowoldman - Member

religion has the answer to the one big question, which science does not I.e. what happens after we die.

No, it has a made up story.

You are going to turn carbon/dust slowoldman ... the clock is ticking. How much time left? Or how long do you think you will survive?

😈

I shall decompose or oxidise depending how I am disposed of.

I love the idea that one day parts of me could be a star or floating in space...

slowoldman - Member

I shall decompose or oxidise depending how I am disposed of.

You can always donate your remain to science for scientific research you know. That is the logical scientific way ... Keep the cost down too etc because your family members do not have to bear the cost of getting a plot for you. Burial is not cheap nowadays. Ya, you need not worry about how the living feel anymore coz you are gone ... carbon. If I were your family member I will sell off your remains for profit to apply absolute logic ... 😈 However, if you still feel for the living while dying then that is not logical to the point of absurd in the mind of science so sadness should not play a part. Carbon is the ultimate.

Yes? 😯

jamj1974 - Member

I love the idea that one day parts of me could be a star or floating in space...

Floating in space? You wish. How do you get beyond the earth atmosphere eh? Rocket? No way someone will fund your remains to be deposited in space ... I rather they recycle your remains by feeding to endanger vultures in the Himalaya alps ... 😆

Carbon is the ultimate. Yes?

I rather they recycle your remains by feeding to endanger vultures in the Himalaya alps

Floating in space? You wish. How do you get beyond the earth atmosphere eh? Rocket? No way someone will fund your remains to be deposited in space ... I rather they recycle your remains by feeding to endanger vultures in the Himalaya alps ...

I was thinking over the scale of billions of years! Not in a couple of decades! Open pyre for me in the short-term though...

[img] [/img]

How does inanimate matter (which is what your brain is) give rise to consciousness, to the human mind? We dont have any real answers, we've barely scratched the surface.

No, it has a made up story.

Maybe so, but at least it's a comforting story, which is better than no story at all.

As I said, I'm not religious at all but I can see why people migrate towards it, especially in times of need.

geetee1972 - Member

Some positive religious impact, earlier...

For balance:

[img] [/img]

You should look up what kind of person she actually was then come back lol

Whether people are religious or not it doesn't really matter a bit. When it comes down to it there isn't any better advice or anything more profound than loving your fellow human beings...?

inanimate matter

at least it's a comforting story, which is better than no story at all.

How does inanimate matter (which is what your brain is) give rise to consciousness, to the human mind? We dont have any real answers, we've barely scratched the surface.

But science will probably get there in the end. Religion will, however, not.

IMHO a lie , no matter how comforting it is for the gullible, is not better than the truth.

Maybe so, but millions of people think differently than you, especially about something that really does no harm**

** Note: religion, or the belief in life after death does not cause wars on it's own. It needs interpretation and twisting by humans to do that.

Pretty sure they think it is true and it is billions.

I also think if you are gay, a female, a non believer etc it is pretty easy to explain where it has done real harm both in the past and currently.

Pretty sure god[s] giving the same land to different people has lead to wars.*

I seem to remember crusades were a popular pastime as well in days gone by.*

* we would have wars without religion but we have had also had some wars primarily about religion.

Its amazing really considering all the humans that have died..that we don't understand death.

Its amazing really considering all the humans that have died..that we don't understand death.

In what way do we not understand death?

I also think if you are gay, a female, a non believer etc it is pretty easy to explain where it has done real harm both in the past and currently.

I was referring to the belief in a afterlife.

Pretty sure god[s] giving the same land to different people has lead to wars.*

Again, that is down to people's interpretation and twisting of the text, not the religion itself.

If you put all the troubles that have occurred on "religious" grounds, down to the belief systems themselves then, for example, you are saying that all muslims are terrorists and all christians are like the Westboro Baptist Church, which obviously is not the case.

I was referring to the belief in a afterlife.

Yes to claim that the crusades would not have happened without religion is indeed very much like that non sequitur of muslims and the west bro baptists
shakes head walks away from thread

Yes to claim that the crusades would not have happened without religion is indeed very much like that non sequitur of muslims and the west bro baptists
shakes head walks away from thread

The Crusades? Again, due to interpretation and twisting to suit. Not everyone who is a Christian has gone on a Crusade. Likewise, not every Muslim has flown a plane into tall buildings.

In what way do we not understand death?

it would have to become another kind of energy,

Your body is food for worms or food for flames and you mind returns to wherever it was before you were born.

Whats remains is your legacy.

I believe the fat ones burn better.

How does inanimate matter (which is what your brain is) give rise to consciousness, to the human mind? We dont have any real answers, we've barely scratched the surface.

It's just an internal feedback circuit isn't it?
Plumbed back in somewhere near our auditory processing system given the illusion of an inner voice. Presumably if it was plumbed in somewhere else we'd still be making the same decisions, but just wouldn't be hearing them as an inner voice?

mind returns to wherever it was before you were born.

Sorry lb I thought may upset some so stealth edited 😉

No worries.. 🙂

As my Muslim colleague who lost his brother this week in a suicide bombing reminded me, "From God we come, unto him we return."

I believe in after life so I want to place a bet with all you scientific minded hard heads.

Well, if you are wrong, i.e. there is life after death, why not bet with me that if you are wrong you owe me one and in the next life repay me with interest? You can pay me back in wealth, watch my back from backstabbers and be my humble servants? Yes? If you are right then we are all carbon anyway so nothing to gain or loose ...

Ya, please don't give me shite replies like not believing in bets and that you have a strong principle about not betting or you simply don't bet in something you don't belief ... ya ya ... I got all these shite responses from my Jew scientific minded colleague (how can he called himself Jew when he only think "scientific"? I think he is a bit sneaky yes?) who blatantly refuse to say yes or no to a bet ... bloody typical of being calculative with that sort of mindset. Ya, he is afraid that "just in case" he was wrong.

So what you say? I might meet you lot in the afterlife to claim my bet ...

What are you going to do for the "scientific minded hard heads".if you lose the bet..seems a bit one-sided 🙂

Happy to meet in the afterlife though.

But how do you pay us if you're wrong?

If you believe in the afterlife, how about you give me everything you own and earn in this life
and I'll be your servant for all eternity?
Once I'm dead, of course.

I'll even sign a contract.

lazybike - Member

What are you going to do for the "scientific minded hard heads".if you lose the bet..seems a bit one-sided

Happy to meet in the afterlife though.

See see ... how can you call that one-sided? The outcome is simple there is afterlife and there is carbon as in dust with no afterlife so if science wins nobody wins but if I win I will get something back ... that will learn you.

Ok you are in.

Oh no now you've made me religious.. 🙂

Rusty Spanner - Member

But how do you pay us if you're wrong?

If you believe in the afterlife, how about you give me everything you own and earn in this life and I'll be your servant for all eternity?
Once I'm dead, of course.

I'll even sign a contract.

I pay you nothing if you are right as we are all carbon dust so what is there to think about? Well, you don't even know if you are right ...

You want my everything? 😆 Yes, only if you have not sinned which I am 100% sure you are not.

I'll even sign a contract.

Yes, that would be good but I am afraid that is not binding, however if I give you everything with sincerity from the bottom of my heart that will be binding.

lazybike - Member

Oh no now you've made me religious..

If I can make you religious then you are a very dangerous person as most converts are very extreme and/or dangerous ... 😯

Give me everything you own now, I'll give you it back plus everything I own / owned when we both reach the afterlife.

Deal?

You've not done enough to "radicalize" me..

Cougar - Moderator

Give me everything you own now, I'll give you it back plus everything I own / owned when we both reach the afterlife.

Deal?

No deal. You are not 100% sinless. I don't want your stuff and my time is not up yet.

😆

lazybike - Member

You've not done enough to "radicalize" me..

Most already radicalize themselves prior to final stage of being radicalized ...

But isn't that the deal that you were offering?
Cougar is just starting it in the here and now and you not taking the bet.

I need some new Mavics please so if you buy me some of them 25th anniversary jobs I promise to buy you something of your choosing for five times the value in the next life?

That's a great deal if you believe in an afterlife.

but the thing that made that person a person has gone, what goes?

What do you mean 'the thing that made that person'?

As far as I am aware it takes a lot to make a person both physically and mentally, from conception to death. if you mean the personality, ie where does it go? Wouldn't it just die with the brain? Philosophically if the person was loved and gregarious then their personality would influence those close to them - those loved and inspired by them would carry forward something of the personality, especially offspring. But an individual surely ceases to exist following his or her brain death (assuming no recovery)

As someone else said, your legacy remains. Your energy is released as heat via entropy. Poetically, your other 'energy' is what you contribute to the global consciousness, man.

What do you mean 'the thing that made that person'?

Its the other energy thats the issue..

wilburt - Member

But isn't that the deal that you were offering?
Cougar is just starting it in the here and now and you not taking the bet.

I am taking bet alright but with your afterlife principle. Not what I want to give now in return for whatever you want ... it's afterlife ffs!

I need some new Mavics please so if you buy me some of them 25th anniversary jobs I promise to buy you something of your choosing for five times the value in the next life?

If I can buy you Mavics would you proceed with a simple ceremony that bind your offer? Not involving killing of goats or sacrifices etc ... Five times the value? How do you know it's five times? 🙄

I can afford Mavics if they are not too expensive if that helps but asking for everything is like asking the impossible innit? You have religious belief and you have fool ... I am none of those.

That's a great deal if you believe in an afterlife.

Great deal or not is not really something that should bother you to be frank since a scientific mind does not bother beyond carbon life. Your scientific logic does not make sense ... get a grip will you. 😆

p/s: I have a brand new hope hub laced on mavic rim ...

Have a good un fella, whatever makes you happy.

You are not 100% sinless.

I believe that's what is called "moving the goalposts." What's sin have to do with anything? Presumably you'r not 100% without sin either (whatever that means) so we're going to the same place. So, I'll see you there. When would you like me to collect your bike?

lazybike, not sure I know what you mean by 'other energy' and I have limited knowledge but [url= http://www.askamathematician.com/2012/11/q-if-energy-is-neither-created-nor-destroyed-what-happens-to-the-energy-within-our-bodies-and-brains-when-we-die/ ]this seems a reasonable account[/url] - not saying it will answer your question but if it doesn't - what do you think is missing from the answer I'd be interested to know. ie are we emotionally invested in looking for 'something more'?

Cougar - Moderator

You are not 100% sinless.

I believe that's what is called "moving the goalposts." What's sin have to do with anything? Presumably you'r not 100% without sin either (whatever that means) so we're going to the same place. So, I'll see you there. When would you like me to collect your bike?

😆 No, no I am not moving the goal posts I just prefer to "donate" to those that I feel are sinless (not sure I can determine that but I shall try ...). I rather donate to a person who is selfless in helping others than to a person who is in need but only done less good in life. Bear mind both will have no problem in taking donation.

Ya, I am not without sin either so perhaps that's one reason I am here still earning peanut living. Going to the same place? Nobody knows and if we meet after the expiry of our carbon life the first thing I will say is ... did you frequent STW while alive? 😆

I just prefer to "donate" to those that I feel are sinless

I thought none of us were "without sin", pretty much by definition?

what do you think is missing from the answer I'd be interested to know. ie are we emotionally invested in looking for 'something more'?