[Closed] Will it kick off big time in Londn tomorrow?

richc - Member

Seems sensible to me to bore them into submission by keeping them all in a nice tight knit group

you are trolling aren't you? please tell me you are?

Well, I would be bored after a couple of hours of rainforest polyphonic singing.

Superb! Are you now comparing today's protestors to the Jarrow Hunger March? or laterly the Miners? Anyway why are you not out there if you care so much? Who knows you may even find the hairy-pitted/like minded/white lightening drinking crustette of your dreams. Or crusty, (not wanting to discriminate.)

What is it really about, a protest or fighting the police? Try this in France or Italy and see what happens.

personally i think all the cashiers should go and find fred the shed and the rest of the board who were so good at their job and offer them to the rioters as a sacrifice

except im sure the board are well out of the way drinking champers with CFH at some old boys club where they probably still import slaves from the "dark continent"

[i]Try this in France or Italy and see what happens.[/i]
[url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7952336.stm ]they do it in france all the time!![/url]

but i wouldnt try it in italy [url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7728583.stm ]the police there will beat you to death plant evidence and then get promoted[/url]

Are you now comparing today's protestors to the Jarrow Hunger March? or laterly the Miners?

Protesters are protesters are protesters. ALL protesters have the right to protest. It's part of our rapidly eroding Civil Rights.

Anyway why are you not out there if you care so much?

Because I'm very concerned that the heavy-handed police tactics will result in violence, and I've had enough of violent situations, tbh. I was hoping to pop over the Canary Wharf, but Farticus says nowt's happening there.

Plus, I've got some Capitalist Pig just demanding that I produce miracles by 5pm. I tell you, it's enough to drive one to riot....

Duckman, spot on

Fred has started a new glazing company, arf!

I wonder if all the glass is rose tinted?

I was down at the Bank of England to check it out, nothing really exciting. A bunch of ninja types all in black did a sort of charge that created some momentary excitement. I took photos on my iphone (you have to call it an iphone - see other thread) and posted them to facebook.

The best thing was the gay and tranvestite protestors with the "Trannys against Tyranny" banner - respect!

The climate crusties were trying to pitch tents on tarmac just up the road. I didn't see any real trouble and we suspected the RBS branch was vulnerable given it is right next to the Bank of England and wasn't boarded up. Why these losers think stealing from a bank branch and causing damage is in any way helpful I don't know. Anyway, I bought Pilkington shares ahead of the protests so hopefully that will at least help a bit with their market value.

I think the police were doing a good job of allowing legitimate protest without being agressive, lots of press and TV around and the police were taking a lot of photos.

AIG is next apparently

Oh and everyone wave at the spooks 🙂 page 2 on google [url= http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=protesting+tomorrow+g20+protests&hl=en&start=10&sa=N ]linky[/url]

Apparently, many people now want to leave the area, but are being prevented from doin so.

So they turned up to protest then what? They changed their mind? Wanted a lunch break? Have to pick up the kids from school?

Do or do not, there is no try.

🙂

SSP

I should add, the "thousands" on the streets as reported so far were mainly like me - City workers out for an enjoyable spot of entertainment in the sun over lunch. Take away the spectators and this is not a big protest thus far. I would say the majority of people I saw were just people out for a look and dressed down for the day. My company advised no suits for the day but there were plenty of suits around and plenty of dressed down types - blazers from Ede & Ravenscroft, Calvin Klein chinos and a Gant shirt..

blazers from Ede & Ravenscroft, Calvin Klein chinos and a Gant shirt..

Cheeze, can they not be arrested for that???

[i]blazers from Ede & Ravenscroft, Calvin Klein chinos and a Gant shirt..[/i]

style for miles them guys

Rudeboy, both the Jarrow Marchers (the original ones) and the Miners were fighting(sometimes) to save their livelihoods and their communities. They both behaved with more dignity than any of the protesters on the beeb, despite having none, or very few, of todays lots opps or chances. I find it insulting that you would lump todays protest in with them. Ask the vast majority of todays lot to explain in detail what they are protesting about and I would be suprised if they knew much about toxic debt etc. That is despite three years re-sitting 1st year Moral Philosophy and Cultural studies at poly.

Message to Crusties...

STOP PLAYING RADICAL ON DADDY'S CREDIT CARD.

I don't know, but I suspect that some of the incoherence of today's lot would be down to the sheer complexity of what they might legitimaely have their knickers in a twist about.

Just try to think through how you get a coherent protest chant out of "these bastids invested heavily in collateralised debt obligations under inadequate supervision from a toothless and incoherent tripartite regulatory system, relying on ratings agencies compromised assurances that the assets were worth what investors were paying for them despite the fact that they were derived from at times fraudulent mortgage broking and based on wholly false assumptions about the ability of real estate prices to break free from traditional price drivers, and, once all that lot had come crashing down as a result of a wobble in the US real estate market radically increased perception opf counter-party risk in the money-markets created a sudden and near-total contraction of credit leading to knock-on effects in the real economy which are incrweasingly being felt by ordinary people while the government's response to this is to socialise risk while leaving profit private thereby increasing Birtain's public debt to unheard-of levels to no very obvious benefit"

It's really hard... 😕

France will give you the same treatment than italy. It doesn't mean it's right. And as I said it's very easy for copper to play cowboy when they have sticks, dogs, tears grenade water canon and are fighting 3 against one.

And as I said it's very easy for copper to play cowboy when they have sticks, dogs, tears grenade water canon and are fighting 3 against one.

Only three? I'd be insulted...

Juan, that would be three rioters to one cop yes? Certainly that is the footage Sky and Bbc are showing.

In which case, wouldn't the sensible protestor remain peaceful and not start saying it with bricks? Faced with opponents armed to the teeth and full of menace I'd be more inclined to curl up, not antagonise them.

Juan, that would be three rioters to one cop yes? Certainly that is the footage Sky and Bbc are showing.

duckman; I'm not equating the protesters today with any other, on any other demonstrations. I'm merely pointing out that ALL of them have the [i]right to protest[/i]. Forget the reasons for demonstrating, for a second; I'm just on about people's [i]right[/i] to protest.

Seems to have gone relatively peacefully, today. Overshadowed by a bit of mindless hooliganism, and some questionable police tactics. Bit of pushing and shoving, really, not a lot more. I've seen things kick off worse, on my estate!

I would question the point of such a demo, but then, the purpose was to cause 'disruption', so it's certainly achieved that! And at least people will be discussing the issues, as we are, on here....

Job done, it seems. Not the way I'd do it, but it's served a purpose.

Guess the Press to Riotist ratio-

[img] [/img]

Can't the press be charged with incitement as there has been non-stop "coverage" for days...almost a self-fullfilling prophesy 🙁

Wonder if the guy in pictured above will plead not guilty? 🙂

SSP

LOL@Scruff's photo.

Rioting/protesting for the OK/Hello generation. How anarchic.

I hate to think how long you worked on that to get it to scan so well BD 🙂

I dont think it's in any one groups interest to have a combined April 1st outing. Less opportunity for mayhem and no coherency.

Im quite happy in the knowledge that they will bring about ABSOLUTELY NO CHANGE whatsoever. Despite the bleats of the smelly-side of the political fence that we have a "perfect storm", ripe for an upheaval, it really isnt going to happen.

Just for you lot I shall transcribe a couple of paragraphs from a book I was reading recently. These passages I think rather emphasise how [i]Plus ça change plus c'est la même chose[/i]

Reading the accounts of the day, and the days after the Panics, you realise that therea are two financial markets. Theres the real-time Walls Street, where the risk takers are anxious and greedy and fearful and devious, and people with the most sensaational psychological disorders that render them unsuited for ordinary social life get rich. Then there;s the other, teoretical after-the-fact Wall Street, in which all these odd human beings, and the chotic events they create, are made to seem more or less rational and easily explanable. Never is this contrast more clear than duing and immediately after a panic. Just before a panic all is well-usually more than well, Then the pani strikes, chaos ensues, and a dramatic upheaval commences. People who were on the top of the financial order plummet to the bottom. People whos opinion was most valued are now ridiculed. Others who were on the sidelines race onto the fields of play. The guy out in the wilderness who ha dbeen saying for the past four years that the good times were an illusion and a sham is wheeled in to take a bow and then hustled off stage, so that everyone else can regroup, and the whole process can start over again.

And so it does with enough of the details changed that, up close, the new madness looks entirely different from any madness that has ever happened before."

He calls it a "madness" (I think, sympathetically), but I think it's a good madness and developmentally no matter how many steps back that are needed to be taken, the number of subsequent steps forward for global well-being is always greater.

[img] [/img]
Panic: The Story of Financial Insanity
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Panic-Story-Modern-Financial-Insanity/dp/0141042311/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1238597832&sr=8-2

(Sorry about any typos, my touch typing is rubbish)

I'm pleased to say that all was well in Knightsbridge. The Corner Shop knocked up a very decent steak, cooked rare of course, and a bottle of claret went down a treat. All quiet on Jermyn Street too. Which was nice.

I had a nice kebab! Dropped me ****ing can of lager, though. Boo.

why has one of the press photographers got a climbing helmet on?

Ever been in a riot? Stuff gets chucked about. Maybe that's why the police have helmets on....?

A couple of tographers have got helmets on. Sensible, I'd say.

what riot? the press riot?

Well, if there's the chance of things kicking off, and stuff getting thrown about, police truncheons flying in, then wearing a helmet woud seem quite prudent.

duckman - Member
Rudeboy, both the Jarrow Marchers (the original ones) and the Miners were fighting(sometimes) to save their livelihoods and their communities. They both behaved with more dignity than any of the protesters on the beeb, despite having none, or very few, of todays lots opps or chances. I find it insulting that you would lump todays protest in with them. Ask the vast majority of todays lot to explain in detail what they are protesting about and I would be suprised if they knew much about toxic debt etc. That is despite three years re-sitting 1st year Moral Philosophy and Cultural studies at poly.

Message to Crusties...

STOP PLAYING RADICAL ON DADDY'S CREDIT CARD.

Posted 1 hour ago # Report-Post

well said duckman, i wanted to say something like this, jut that i am not articulate enough.
these ****ers have **** all to protest about. middle or upper class ****er5 just causing trouble.
line em up put em in a field and shoot the bastids........ 😉

these ****ers have **** all to protest about

That's you opinion,and you are entitled to that, as they are entitled to exercise their right to protest.

You can't just pick and choose, which demonstrations are allowed or not, based on your own particular views. That's not how it works.

[url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7976783.stm ]the revolution is spreading![/url]

ton - Member

duckman - Member
Rudeboy, both the Jarrow Marchers (the original ones) and the Miners were fighting(sometimes) to save their livelihoods and their communities. They both behaved with more dignity than any of the protesters on the beeb, despite having none, or very few, of todays lots opps or chances. I find it insulting that you would lump todays protest in with them. Ask the vast majority of todays lot to explain in detail what they are protesting about and I would be suprised if they knew much about toxic debt etc. That is despite three years re-sitting 1st year Moral Philosophy and Cultural studies at poly.

Message to Crusties...

STOP PLAYING RADICAL ON DADDY'S CREDIT CARD.

Posted 1 hour ago # Report-Post

well said duckman, i wanted to say something like this, jut that i am not articulate enough.
these ****ers have **** all to protest about. middle or upper class ****er5 just causing trouble.
line em up put em in a field and shoot the bastids........

Good post.

Where does the theory that these people are "middle and upper class ****ers" come from? Some? Many? may be, but just looking at the photos I am just not convinced these guys spend their spare time hanging around on the Kings Road sipping chai lattes and planning how to renovate their second homes in Tuscany. A significant number of the people in the pictures look thoroughly rough and rather scary.

If people are just out for a ruck I can't see that their class background is of the slightest interest either way. It's stupid, destructive and pointless (although no doubt rather good fun).

If they are protesting genuine concerns then I am unsure why you think people who are not directly affected are not allowed to join those who are. I do not give a flying rat's ass about anyone's right to hunt foxes with dogs. I turned out for the Countryside alliance march to support a cause which is clearly right even though it does not impinge on me personally. In days of yore, the wealthy and enfranchised coming out to join chartist demos would have seemed rather progressive. William Wilberforce et al were in no great danger of being enslaved, etc etc.

What you are I suspect objecting to is that today's protests are rather nebulous. No-one is clear what they are about, and there seem to be a huge number of different agendas wrapped up in, broadly, "you lot have stuffed it all up and we are all going to suffer". As many of us on here share that sentiment, we are just rather picky about who gets to be included in the "them" that we blame, I can't really see that anyone is disallowed from joining in.

🙂

Now [i]that's[/i] a good post.

Unlike some of the selfish, ignorant prejudicial bile spouted by some ostriches here....

A great day for t055ers of all persuasions I'd say. Yob riot police get to crack a few heads. Crusty ****wits get to shout a lot without contributing anything worthwhile to anyone. Anarchists get really dangerous and smash some glass. Bankers keep on doing what they do best, as nothing has the power or inclination to stop them. The press get served up paydirt. The great and good have a bit of a chin wag over a luxury buffet. Internet experts have a blue ribband thread to argue over all day.

Corker.

[chuckles] How did trailmonkey get so cynical? 😉

EDIT: Golly. Two Hundred!

Internet experts have a blue ribband thread to argue over all day.

Corker.

It has been.

Fantastic.

Where does the theory that these...... people are "middle and upper class ****ers" come from? Some? Many?............If people are just out for a ruck I can't see that their class background is of the slightest interest either way

Makes a [i]big[/i] difference to me. For many reasons.

I would dismiss the claim that many are 'upper class' but a fair few are 'middle class' there's no doubt about it. Where does the theory come from ? Well I'm perfectly capable of distinguishing between middle-class and working-class people. I find it a bit of a give away talking to them - they often drop clues like what they do for a living 😯

In my experience those who screw things up at these events are invariably middle-class. But that is not to say of course, that all middle-class protesters at these events cause problems - far from it.

Oh btw - there's a big difference between being prepared 'if' things kick off, and 'wanting' things to kick off.

imo.

grizzlygus - Member
Oh btw - there's a big difference between being prepared if things kick off and, wanting things to kick off.

imo.

Errant comma notwithstanding, a very good point.

Yeah you've made me very aware of my errant commas in the past Captain - I try and keep them under control these days. I had already edited before you posted.

Did I get it right btw ?

Have you been down there today gus? I am (honestly) curious at how ton and people have arrived at their conclusions about the social background of today's mob.

🙂

I'm in reserve for the final push and the setting up of the Provisional Government BD.

There's a lot of paperwork still to get through ..... compiling lists of 'enemies of the People' ..... you know, that sort of stuff.

.

God, I'm going to [i][b]love[/b][/i] the post-revolution Reign of Terror 😀

I was there today.Only wanted to go for a bit but suddenly I was trapped.The police wouldn't let anybody leave for hours.So many people just wanted to go.Surely they can manage to let people out and not let people in?
Think they were dying for things to kick off and this penning in tactic is perfect for intimidating people and causing more anger and frustration.Then the newspapers and BBC get their shots of "protesters attacking police" for their biased coverage.

doesn't need an comma after the 'off' or the 'and'.

double FAIL

Right, some pics from my walk to the station past the 'activities'

First the obligatory Flickr link http://www.flickr.com/photos/cheesyfeet/

[img] [/img]
Looking towards Bank on King William Street. Note the police toilets! Vans on the right contain riot gear

[img] [/img]
Looking towards bank on Cornhill. Those aren't protesters you can see - they're city workers having a look!

[img] [/img]
Looking at the Bank Of England at the Royal Exchange
Some participants this side of the Police line, most the other side

[img] [/img]
More Riot gear vans. There were lots & lots of these. Inside, they are kitted out with racks for sheilds, helmets, etc

So, all in all it was very contained which was a good thing. Those that wanted to protest could, those that didn't could go about their business (mostly)

BigDummy -
you know as well sa i do and most on here.
these protesters are the same ones that protest at
hunts
testing laboritories
gm crop fields
union disputes
poll tax rallies
or just about any protest going.
most are ex university students
usually over qualified to get a proper job, they feel they are worth a better carry on than most.
**** all common sense is the norm.
and with far too much time on their hands.
😉

think there were prehaps more cameras up town today than 'protesters'.

all a bit of a joke really (as shown by chessy's pics).....

Ton, those that I saw predominantly looked like students 😆

ex or present university students than............... 🙄

alpin - Member
doesn't need an comma after the 'off' or the 'and'.

double FAIL

Bollox. I'll never get me head round this 'Written English' malarkey 🙁

Thought I'd cracked it and all ............. next step, "learn to talk proper", I'd said to me self 🙁

I was there today.Only wanted to go for a bit but suddenly I was trapped.The police wouldn't let anybody leave for hours.

I first witnessed that police tactic in the run up to the Iraq war. It's extremely effective as it seriously screws up demos. Almost certainly illegal though, as you are effectively being detained by the police - with no good cause.

Police say there were 5,000 protesters. Lets double it to be nice.
£7.5m of policing costs, lets say half of that is for the Excel arena.

3.75m/10,000 = £375 per swampy.

They should have offered them each £200 and as much organic tofu as they can eat to stay at home at their parents and we would have still saved a bundle! 🙂

trailmonkey - Member
A great day for t055ers of all persuasions I'd say. Yob riot police get to crack a few heads. Crusty ****wits get to shout a lot without contributing anything worthwhile to anyone. Anarchists get really dangerous and smash some glass. Bankers keep on doing what they do best, as nothing has the power or inclination to stop them. The press get served up paydirt. The great and good have a bit of a chin wag over a luxury buffet. Internet experts have a blue ribband thread to argue over all day

And I'm sure RBS's insurers will be having some interesting discussions about whether they took reasonable precautions to protect their premises. Lots of other places were boarded up: tailors, motor dealers, some near, some further away. AIG took their signs down outside their building. The company was an obvious target, not to mention that branch was right in the planned demo area, and no protection at all. I think (hope) the staff had been sent home. And where were the police? Watch the BBC footage and there's couple of rioters, about 100 journalists/photographers and no police at all.

Given that the government have a controlling share, were they in a position to encourage the building's sacrificial use for some juicy pictures to turn opinion against the protesters?

Ton you are absolutely right! No one has a problem with peaceful protestors especially as we all feel strongly about something but those few minority idiots that like to riot and cause havoc for all the law abiding citizens causes the police to have to react in the way they do penning EVERYONE in.

How much would policing costs have been if there had been [b]no[/b] protestors stoner ?

Unusual for you to be slack with figures innit ? Specially ones concerning money. 😕

Munqe-chick - Member
Ton you are absolutely right! ..........those few minority idiots that like to riot

So how is he right ? He wants them [u]all[/u] shot.

😕

gus, i was kidding, did you not see 😉 and 😀 😆 mate.

No ton, I didn't - I've always assumed that everyone on here says what they think.

Never occured to me that some might be taking the p1ss 😯

but those few minority idiots that like to riot and cause havoc for all the law abiding citizens causes the police to have to react in the way they do penning EVERYONE in.

Wrong. The police began penning people in, before the trouble started. It was clearly show, on the BBC live stream. I've seen this tactic used plenty of times; as Gus points out, it is very effective in screwing up a demo, as the resulting violence will grab the media attention, and detract form the actual reasons for the demo.

Notice how the police 'squeezed' the contained groups at certain intervals, then fell back and let people leave? Deliberate. Designed to get a reaction, and once they'd got a reaction, and the TV crews etc had got their pictures, then they stepped back.

Rudeboy is quite correct. Its a tactic known as the kettle. People are penned into a space and denied water and the use of toilet facilities - there are a number of legal challenges ongoing against this tactic. From first hand accounts from yesterday the police used this tactic very agressively. For them it works on 2 levels - firstly it discourages those on a peaceful protest from continuing and secondly it aggrevates those who are prepared to use direct action. There were a numbers of scenes yesterday where people desperate to break through police lines to leave the protest were denied access and arrested when they tried to run.

some good information here on today's events: http://london.indymedia.org.uk/articles/992

But since public toilets are provided by the man, then they surely wouldn't want to use them anyway?

your humour excels

well the circus is over
the g20 leaders have saved the day
the protestors can go home satisfied that a window got broken
the suits got a mufti day
the journos got some frontline action
the police got to stomp some crusties
cfh had a whole potted calf for lunch
and most importantly stwers got to proclaim their wildly unsubstansiated opinions on .....
the parental income and personal hygiene of youre average protestor
police crowd control tactics
the casual dress sense of bankers

it is very effective in screwing up a demo

The kettle is indeed a very effective tactic, and the police can go home feeling 'job well done'.

Only .... in the long term it is extremely counterproductive. I have seen 'the kettle' become a real reality check for some people. Suddenly people who have never been in trouble with the police, often respectable middle-class, middle-aged people who wouldn't even risk getting a parking ticket, find that they are been held against their will, unable to even get a drink or go to the toilet. When they eventually leave they have a completely different attitude towards the police.

And Munqe-chick you might well think that it's absolutely fine to punish everybody because according to you there's a "few minority idiots that like to riot", but I don't believe that this is a principle which is generally recognised under British law - you don't punish a whole group of people with the intention of including the guilty ones.

It also doesn't help my cause when I try to tell some idiot "yes I know, but only 'a tiny minority' of coppers are ****s, most are alright - you can't throw that brick hoping that it will hit one of the horrible ****s" 😯
It just gives fuel to the morons. And fails to distinguish the guilty from the innocent.

The kettle is one of the most longterm counterproductive tactics used be the police. I have been at the scene of countless 'disturbances', specially at Wapping. I have seen bricks, scaffold tubes, the lot, thrown at the police (usually in response to police charges) of which I totally disapprove, and I have also witnessed indiscriminate police violence. But I have always believed that even though I was in the thick of it, not breaking the law was essential - I have never been arrested.

However after recent experiences where even though I have fully cooperated with police requests, I have been held for hours against my will and denied basic rights, despite having broken no laws and been on a perfectly legal demo, I can't be completely sure that I wouldn't support attempts to break through police lines - something which I have never considered before. Sod not being allowed to go home, and being treated like a criminal 😕