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Worse than austerity? A programme with no end and no solution that has devastated the economy, caused massive wage deflation and unemployment. Worse? How exactly...?Compare the stats on recovery after default and devaluation - even Argentina. The story is inconvenient for the € elite hence the lack of coverage. But after the negative J curve effect, Greece would get a chance to recover. At the moment, there is no chance.
Find myself agreeing with THM on this thread
Looks like the Greek banking system is about to collapse. Not to worry though, looks like their saviour is about to ride into town....
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What could possibly go wrong? 😀
Old people die in the winter not sue to cold (and specifically fuel poverty) but due to things like respiratory illnesses etc.
Old people die from the cold.
[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/9078273/Hypothermia-deaths-double-over-five-years.html ]Hypothermia deaths double over five years[/url]
[i]Hypothermia takes place when body temperature falls below 35C (95F) from its usual 37C (98.6F), with symptoms including violent shivering, confusion, delirium and unconsciousness.
The statistics, released by the NHS Information Centre, cover a period in which soaring energy bills have been pushing more and more pensioners into fuel poverty[/i]
What's the matter with you jambalaya - why this constant need to rewrite the truth if it doesn't fit in neatly with your agenda ? It's just silly.
They should have jumped last year. All they have done is prolong the pain and stroke the egos of a few old men who are too stubborn to see that project euro is only as strong as its weakest members
Back to important matters... how much further will the euro slide against the pound?? How cheap will bike parts get from Europe??
*Scuttles off to price up 11 speed upgrades
Lots of people I know are looking at certain German online bike shops. New forks and groupset
Andy R - Member
mrhoppy - Member
Mostly so I can get home again. This holiday has felt a little like playing Russian Roulette.
Well, we've been here for six weeks and will be here for another five. If it wasn't for the fact that I have work to do in the grim north I'd quite happily stay a hell of a lot longer than that.
Of course, it's nothing like a holiday, seeing that we spend nearly half the year here (and will continue to do so).........
To be honest, the only things that I miss about my "other life" are a few people that are important to me (including a couple of riding mates, nobody around here rides what I like to).
But if you're in the north in theory you can get out, I was on an island and if it all had gone tits up a couple of days earlier I'd be facing not being able to withdraw money potentially whilst the country is possibly going to shut down and the effects of that are uninsured under standard travel policies. There were already places charging mark ups for/not accepting card transactions.
Banks are shut, capital controls imposed
Banks are shut, capital controls imposed
It's all over, then. They'll be out of the Euro very soon.
It's all over, then. They'll be out of the Euro very soon.
No - the more likely outcome is that the referendum votes to give in to the blackmail, and the process continues.. The only way out is to vote OXI and exit the Euro, but it takes a lot of guts to do that, and people are weak.
It was always clear that the wounded lion would respond wih vengeful savagery, and now the Greek people will likely not keep hold of its tail.
[quote=DrJ said]
No - the more likely outcome is that the referendum votes to give in to the blackmail, and the process continues.
Is that the mood on the streets ? I got the feeling that it wasn't but that's from stuff I've seen on TV.
No - the more likely outcome is that the referendum votes to give in to the blackmail, and the process continues.. The only way out is to vote OXI and exit the Euro, but it takes a lot of guts to do that, and people are weak.
Maybe so, but the referendum isn't until the end of the week, and they're out of money [b]now[/b]
No - the more likely outcome is that the referendum votes to give in to the blackmail, and the process continues.. The only way out is to vote OXI and exit the Euro, but it takes a lot of guts to do that, and people are weak.
Yep, they don't seem to have the guts / common sense to leave and the EU doesn't seem to have the guts / common sense to just expel them. I can see this farce continuing till xmas and beyond....
and they're out of money now
Not strictly true, the emergency liquidity funding is still in place, just not extended. With capital controls / strategic bank closures they can continue for some time.
The Greek people's position is inherently contradictory. The majority of them want to remain in the Eurozone. But they also overwhelmingly reject the conditions that this places on them. They can't have both. They want to have their cake and eat it. Living way beyond their means and expect everyone else to stump up for that, out of fear of the alternative - a Greek default.
Looks like it's now make your mind up time. Choose one or the other. Christ only knows which way they'll jump! Neither looks particularly appealing, I'd imagine.
It's amazing to think that things have been allowed to reach this point. A damning indictment of the whole Eurozone project.
Is that the mood on the streets ?
Mood on the streets is Tsipras are somehow leading the opinion polls by 25 points, and yet there is talk of banks being closed until their 5th July referendum, a €60 withdrawal limit if the banks open at all next week. Greek stock market to remain closed. It's going to be an interesting week.
Still, at least the headline writers are in for a treat: "Acropolypse Now!"
It almost writes itself.
At least they're not making a Drachma out of a crisis.
Chapeau
"Enjoyed" listening to Varoufakis on R4 is morning while driving up M40 - up until they bought Bloody Peston and his sources in.
Now for Europe to show its metal. How do you execute an orderly exit. There has been long enough to prepare for this. Time to help the Greeks properly now....
[i]Time to help the Greeks properly now...[/i]
I fear their version of "properly" may vary from yours, THM
(hope the hospital visit went well)
Time to help the Greeks properly now....
Whaf makes you think they will do that? Is there some aspect of Lagarde, Dijsselbloem, Schauble, Noonan, and all the rest of the sad crew that makes you think they share the tiniest gram of common human decency? They are liars and crooks to the core, and I'm sure they will continue to demonstrate that in the days to come.
True
(Crap but thanks v much)
[quote=footflaps ]Not strictly true, the emergency liquidity funding is still in place, just not extended. With capital controls / strategic bank closures they can continue for some time.
Don't they have an IMF payment which is due on Tuesday, the deadline for which won't be extended again and which they simply don't have the money to pay, hence they will be effectively bankrupt. They can't just bumble along and ignore that any more. All of which happens before the referendum, so something has to break before that.
I assume he knew that when he called it
I assume he is gambling that the EU will react
Plus pensions and salaries to pay
Funny to look back on the threads from 2-3 years ago on this topic!!
Leaving aside the poor economics and social consequences, Tsipras' final stunt was at least interesting politically. Just a shame that this is real life not a game
It's unclear what the referendum will be about next week - the offer from the Troika has been withdrawn...
I have a friend on holiday there at the moment. She's not massively into economics and current affairs so I doubt she'll have been expecting this! She's posting holiday photos on Facebook but as yet no-one's commented that the ATMs are being turned off... this is when 'economics' and real life collide
Funny to look back on the threads from 2-3 years ago on this topic!!
I think it's hilarious how they could have defaulted 5 years ago.
[url= http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a3874e80-82e8-11df-8b15-00144feabdc0.html ]Greece’s best option is an orderly default[/url]
[i]"The €110bn bail-out agreed by the European Union and the International Monetary Fund in May only delays the inevitable default and risks making it disorderly when it comes".[/i]
June 28, 2010........five years ago to the day.
Indeed the offer has gone.
My pa came back this weekend - hopefully. I did tell her to take lots of cash.
Some sweaty (don't panic ducks) Eurocrats tonight. Makes our referendum a bit silly until we know what the endgame is...
Good spot to that link Ernie. NR will be in his element now. Nowt better than a crisis for him. But as all Keynesians know, creditors also have to take the hit. Ignore the lessons of history...
aracer - MemberDon't they have an IMF payment which is due on Tuesday, the deadline for which won't be extended again
I'd be very surprised if it isn't tbh. Bet you 20p?
Varoufakis was arguing for two loans to be netted off this morning.
Interesting that is was left to Draghi to pull the plug.
Political expediency can trump the laws of economics in the short term, but the dismal science always wins in the end. Politicians who forget this truism do so at their peril 😉
[quote=Northwind ]I'd be very surprised if it isn't tbh. Bet you 20p?
Well I'm not entering into a deal with somebody with unknown liquidity.
How do you feel about relaxing your normal criteria, and overlooking obviously inaccurate figures, and then declaring it to be all my fault when in 5 years time I've not paid up?
It's Sunday night, the liquidity is a given.
Piraeus Bank CEO announced that banks will stay closed for the whole week.
[quote=Northwind ]How do you feel about relaxing your normal criteria, and overlooking obviously inaccurate figures, and then declaring it to be all my fault when in 5 years time I've not paid up?
That's sounds like a sensible idea. Only if you're going to deny all responsibility for making up the figures though.
Hold on you two you need a highly credible independent source [s] prepared to say and do anything for money [/s]know for its moral and impartial reports on accounts
Euro is free fall against Sterling and Dollar.
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[url= http://markets.ft.com/research/Markets/Tearsheets/Summary?s=GBPEUR ]ft euro sterling fx[/url]
Good time to buy a canyon? Every cloud and all that....
The Avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
This will end in fire.
Very apt quotes from my favourite Vorlon.
Won't be pretty and I'm glad I'm not Greek as I'd be one of those poor b'stards camped out round the cash machine.
What happens when you cannot get cash out to pay for food or your kids proscription?
How long before the looting starts?
teamhurtmore - Member
"Enjoyed" listening to Varoufakis on R4 is morning while driving up M40 - up until they bought Bloody Peston and his sources in.Now for Europe to show its metal
Can't beat a bit of Euro metal. Mettle may be more useful, but here we go...
Yanis Varoufakis the Homer Simpson of Finance Ministers. Greek banks will be shut on Monday! I can't see how they will open after that. Guardian suggests they will be shut for a week until after the referendum. If the referendum is No I can't understand how they will open at all.
Great ride today, will catch up on the thread some other time, will be office early.
It always amazes me that in the war on terror, they always manange to foil 99.9999% of planned attacks. But in the war on drugs, they are lucky if they stop 1% of it getting through. 😆We don't see the number of incidents here as our security forces are working hard to keep us safe.
Another conundrum there is that when there was/is a real threat of domestic terrorism, ie the IRA, their success ratio was/is terrible.
Suspicous? me? Never! 😆
Either we're dealing with some really dim witted "islamic" terrorists, or threats we face are blown out of all proportion is the only conclusion i can come to there.
I hope this is the beginning of the end for the EU. Their treatment of Greece throughout this boringly elongated crisis demonstrates how little they care about the people of Europe, and how far they will go to protect the "integrity" of the EU project.
And the UK is not wholly out of the words economically, if the crisis ignites then our housing bubble could implode, with Arthur and Mildred queuing up outside the banks again.
Nothing was fixed in 2008, the can was kicked down the road.
Indeed the offer has gone.
Interesting point. If the troika thought it was a good and fair solution on Saturday, is it now no longer good and fair? If they thought it was the right thing to do one day, is it wrong the day after? Do they admit that it was just a game, and not actually a sincere attempt to find the right way forward for Greece and for the EU?
Still, let's all laugh at funny cartoons, eh?
Far bigger things to get in a sweat about THM...Since I am flying to Crete tonight 😆 I anticipate a mid air whip round for "petrol money" on the return journey.