[Closed] Why do people like windfarms?

Coz if you stick them up the govt give you £100,000.

Every year.

Each turbine.

We pay for that in increased power bills.

And we pay for the power that comes off them.

Tidal power seems a better bet; the sea's always going in or out. But it's not being seen to be green, so not fashionable.

Wave power is where it's at. Massive amounts of energy just waiting to be harnessed...

So I have something slightly more interesting than just a dull lifeless hill to look at from my living room.

'cos the wind takes your troubles away.

funny thing is, view from my kitchen is the twin towers of stinky cocken[b]d[/b]zie.

I'm into them cos if it will rumple the feathers of the reactionaries and luddites then I'll happily get one erected on my arse..

Tidal and wave is being installed. Windfarms do work and do produce energy. Elegant as well IMO

GW, get some binoculars. I'll go up and run about naked. You know you love it.

They don't really work and there are much better "renewable" energy sources that we should be looking at. So why are the Lammermuirs covered in them?

"up" you mean 😉

save your petrol money just come up and jump around naked in my trampoline

TJ, a few are quite nice, but now the lammys are covered in them. They've even destroyed an ancient right of way, the herring road, to build the windmills. They do (sometimes) produce energy but are in no way cost effective.

Why do people like windfarms?

because the infrastructure destroys the deep peat moorland they site them on, negatively impacts the drinking water catchment

they are also silent in operation, operate all the time, don't burst into flames and have replaced umpteen "conventional" power stations

the operators also put loads of money into the local communities and create lots of jobs

Mike, you been up Sutra and seen them close up, I think they're quite cool. way cooler than disused war bunkers and dookits for instance 😉

Don Simon - I did have a link to a website that showed what energy sources were powering the grid but I cant find the wensite. Epic fail on my behalf, I know.

GW, be up in half an hour, just after I've shaved.....

I think it's a step in the right direction. I quite like them, although they are a bit spooky. When I go to Glyncorrig and see them I feel a little bit afraid that they are going to turn round and zap me (like War of the Worlds). Part of the answer. Along with a changing of our lives so we use less power, more 'home' power schemes, more wave power. Reduce. Reduce. Reduce (which can be done without too much pain, if only people would think laterally). BUT my friend in Wales tells me that his local wind turbines are owned by the French and profits go to them, that's not good. Plus, all that concrete for the roads leading to isn't very good.

I've been up and seen them, they are pretty cool too look at up close. The best bit about the windfarms are the tracks around them. I can blat up them on the GS and feel like Ewan MacGregor. There's just to many of the things now. Its ruined the novelty factor.
No way as good as nuclear bunkers. 😆

Epic fail on my behalf, I know.

What head angle/tyres for looking at windmills?

Which is prettiest?
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doesn't matter which is the prettiest, the windfarm doesn't replace the other two

before your time Mike but watch the vid

http://ssa.nls.uk/film.cfm?fid=8500&search_term=dunbar&search_join_type=AND&search_fuzzy=yes

I was there, expect CK would have been too.

You know, over the last few hundred years, those folks over in the Netherlands have been building windfarms to pump out the water and nowadays, they are seen as an attraction?

I am not saying modern windfarms don't have the same appeal, it is just they are a new feature on our landscape and people generally don't like change.

does matter which is prettiest

So what do those babies churn out (given a moderate breeze)?

I think torness looks the best! It looks like something from star wars. Looks cool at night too.

I kind of like them because I get paid handsomely to produce visual impact assessment photography for the developers once or twice a year 🙂 Couple of months hanging around in the mountains waiting for decent visibility, all expenses paid, all day hikes miles from anywhere - dog loves it too!

always wanted to cycle across that overpass/bridge thing at Cockenzie, prob could have years back too (seeing as the old man ran the place).

"might not work, but i'm 'kin raking it it"

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they are also silent in operation, operate all the time, [b]don't burst into flames[/b] and have replaced umpteen "conventional" power stations

Just for big_n_daft 🙂

[url= http://imgur.com/a/SURqE#0 ]Lots more pics here[/url] - apparently the gearbox oil gets hot sometimes

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there is a solution that does away with the need for wind farms and power stations, not totally i grant.

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i know they are boring but your choice.

Oooohhh! I hope I see that happen some day!
if they all went up on Sutra it'd be the best birthday cake ever!!

Oooohhh! I hope I see that happen some day!

Just make sure you move your car

[img] [/img]

They do (sometimes) produce energy but are in no way cost effective.

Considering banks are fairly massive investors in windfarms, and they're fairly cautious on their expenditure these days, some might disagree. I quite like the look of a few of them standing in places, but I dislike seeing farms of them across pretty countryside. I'd much rather see them in the sea, and they make a nice addition to an industrial waterfront

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Always baffles me how people will whine about wind turbines, yet no-one bats an eyelid about countryside pylons which are fugly and everywhere.

Goddamn NIMBYs.

Considering banks are fairly massive investors in windfarms, and they're fairly cautious on their expenditure these days, some might disagree.

Coz if you stick them up the govt give you £100,000.

yet no-one bats an eyelid about countryside pylons which are fugly and everywhere.

There was some serious prolonged winging and escapades around here
They got up to all sorts to try and stop them

http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/archive/1998/05/09/York+Archive/7969350.Shares_bid_to_blow_fuse_in_pylons_plan/

http://www.revolt.co.uk/suppor1.html

On ince marshes next to one of the largest oil refinerys in the uk, a huge glass bottle making plant, the manchester ship cannal, the largest uk producer of highly poisonous chlorine and other nasties,along with a large fertilizer plant, and a major motorway,2 railway lines going to different placesand a major river, they want to put some wind turbines, and the locals are complaining about visual impact.

Ince marshes is the stretch of motorway just after chester services and just before the runcorn turnoff the m56

and the locals are complaining about visual impact.

I like them though they remind me of The Tripods, that old bbc kids programme, so a bit eerily creepy too. I think they look way prettier on a hillside than your average ski development

Oh and i forgot the itinerant travels camp, next to the motorway, as well as a major airport flightpath, from John Lennon airport speke, along with Manchester, then theres the thousands of scoucers who live across the river.

At least if they did have a leak they could turn the wind turbines on and blow the fumes away.

Can see more than large 20 windmills from the windows at our hous,e including one of the earliest in the UK powering an individual factory. Also several farms with smaller unit each. On the coldest days of the winter they are always still just when they are needed. Am resonably happy them being there but am fully aware that given our collective us of electricity, we need every coal/gas/nuclear station we have. Having said that, in the next 5 years a good portion of our coal and nuclear stations will be shut down. So will be connecting my turbo trainer up to the grid, reckon I could be earning a couple of quid a week given the massive subsidy for PV on house roofs.

The amount of rare earth metals in a typical windfarm is quite staggering - and the negative environmental impact of extracting and refining those metals even more so. But that happens in China so none of the windfarm evangelists ever mention it...

I reckon most houses should all have little 'uns to help things along, though I guess it would be nimby for real for some

project - Member
On ince marshes next to one of the largest oil refinerys in the uk, a huge glass bottle making plant, the manchester ship cannal, the largest uk producer of highly poisonous chlorine and other nasties,along with a large fertilizer plant, and a major motorway,2 railway lines going to different placesand a major river, they want to put some wind turbines, and the locals are complaining about visual impact.

Ince marshes is the stretch of motorway just after chester services and just before the runcorn turnoff the m56

it's also next to a huge SSSI with protected bird species, GC newts and other animals and some time team stuff amongst other things

you also missed the planned waste management plant 😉

Mike, you been up Sutra and seen them close up, I think they're quite cool. way cooler than disused war bunkers and dookits for instance

😆 😀

What about old spoons and ruins in Newbattle .?

Wave power seemed to be the next big thing up until last year , but now even they dont seem to be flavour of the month. The big ugly beast that Is cockenzie maybe an eyesore but can go from shut down to producing Gigawatts GW(GW FFS one of them is enough) In 50 minutes.

The amount of rare earth metals in a typical windfarm is quite staggering

fo' sho'.. I mean you certainly wouldn't find that sort of stuff in other power facilities..
disgusting

it's also next to a huge SSSI with protected bird species, GC newts and other animals and some time team stuff amongst other things

you also missed the planned waste management plant

And the silt dumping ground for the ship canal, where they use straw bales to clean the water flowing out of the huge lagoons.

Sure its called Paradise lane. 😯

The amount of rare earth metals in a typical windfarm is quite staggering - and the negative environmental impact of extracting and refining those metals even more so. But that happens in China so none of the windfarm evangelists ever mention it...

Really? I thought the reason it wasn't mentioned much was because most of the generators used in large scale farms were induction generators, not permanent magnet ones like those used in back-yard turbines, meaning there's sod all rare earth content?

Other types of machines like dc-generators, permanent magnet
machines or variable-reluctance generators are not important in
the state of the art market in wind power generation [2].

([2] J. Marques, et al. A Survey on Variable-Speed Wind Turbine System, Con-
gresso Brasileiro de Eletrˆ onica de Potˆ encia (COBEP), 2003, Fortaleza - CE.)

mind you just up the road there is a SSSI inside the Shotton Steel works, so i wouldn't put to much effort into arguing anything off the back of that.

and the locals are complaining about visual impact.

Exactly, FFS. It's next to [i]Runcorn.[/i]

swan choppers , i like them . quite a surreal sight on a misty day as you ride round the side of a hill 🙂

I reckon most houses should all have little 'uns to help things along

Sure its called Paradise lane.

you would think, but try digging near there and the ecologist employment generation scheme kicks in, it will probably easier to dig a trench through the middle of the Lake District

I quite like them. The have an elegance and symmetry which is visually appealing.

The Lammermuirs and Moorfoots are near the central belt so there is minimal transmission loss too.

Superb - at least the big ones are efficient when there's wind.

Don't the little ones work then ? The people living in these award winning houses in Croydon will be disappointed.

http://www.ecearchitecture.com/portfolio/view/summer_gardens_croydon/

The people living in these award winning houses in Croydon will be disappointed.

Proper on-shore wind turbines (ie big ones) are the cheapest form of renewable energy on a per MW basis (might have been per MWh). Next best is off-shore as I recall though I'm hazier on that.

[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_electricity_by_source#UK_2010_estimates ]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_electricity_by_source#UK_2010_estimates[/url]
[img] http://www.smileys4me.com/getsmiley.php?show=2139 [/img]

I like 'em - especially that view you sometimes get of just the blades chopping over the top of a hill. Elegant.

Nah - I don't suppose it will affect their smug little glow.

Smug because of their reduced utility bills ?

Regarding the rare metals argument, it's the next generation of direct drive turbines that use considerably more as they do away with a gearbox and do everything with the generator. It is the scarcity of these metals that has partially slowed their development.

Those who aren't keen on them should try and get used to them, especially if they live on the coast. The amount of money currently being spent, along with the number that will be built over the next few years is MIND BOGGLING!

If you ever needed a reason to like wind turbines, arch ****wit Donald Trump doesn't like 'em:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/sep/28/donald-trump-scottish-offshore-windfarm

Thanks Don S, I stand corrected(ish) though beware some of those technologies don't actually exist and solar farms are not the same as PV on people's roofs.

Don't the little ones work then ?

Yes they work fantastically well, a friend has a wee one on his farm and is astounded by the amount of leccy (and money as it way more than meets their needs on the farm) it is making.

The Lammermuirs are pretty covered in them, when I drive on the road up to Whiteadder Reservoir it is always a surprise when they come into view. They'll have a pretty high capacity factor up there anyway, very windy place! But not as high capacity factor as the wind farm on Orkney that recorded 130mph winds last weekend, they get 44% up there!

Regarding the rare metals argument, it's the next generation of direct drive turbines that use considerably more as they do away with a gearbox and do everything with the generator. It is the scarcity of these metals that has partially slowed their development.

Really? The ones I've been talking with manufacturers about have been asynchronous machines that still are not permanent magnet machines, they're inverter-controlled machines. I'm no motors expert but AFAIK they work by instead of generating against mains frequency with a gearbox they generate against a self-adjusting frequency generated from the grid frequency (so don't need a 'box) and then convert with an inverter back to grid-matched. At least that's what the manufacturer I was discussing with said. But he is only one of many. Using large rare-earth magnets of those scales would be vastly expensive but I suppose would increase the overall efficiency.

Coffeeking - You sound like you know more than me (not hard), the rare metals line was being discussed on the trade press but in retrospect it was fairly vague.

I don't think I do, but I work around a lot of electric machines research people in the renewables fields and pick up a few things, I was just curious as it didn't hold with what I'd heard, but like I say that's only one manufacturer I've spoken directly to, the rest is gleaned through those with more knowledge than I so could be crossed wires on my part.

There's a lot of time and effort being spent on direct drive as servicing and maintaining windfarms (especially offshore) is where a lot of the cost is, so simpler mechanics are clearly an advantage. As a result id imagine there's a few different avenues being explored by the manufacturers.

As a result id imagine there's a few different avenues being explored by the manufacturers.

I imagine so. The various methods seem to be very close efficiency wise I guess it's down to who has what expertise and links to the current manufacturers rather than technology specific causes. Interesting to hear the trade is considering PM machines as a viable option though.

Why do people like windfarms?

On the negative side:

1. Being seen to do something is more important than achieving it?

2. They're actually fans to keep Gaia cool by blowing all that hot air away.

3. It's a method of destroying a profitable tourist industry.

On the positive side:

1. Think of all those lovely subsidies.

2. er, that's it

Thinks they look pretty cool myself
Also being able to place them other than land so you can make use of wasted/none usable space

Wind farms and tidal energy catchment are absorbing the earths natural motion and momentum, come the day, the earths rotation will be slowed too much, gravity will be too weak and we will all be flung into outer space.....................

Any form of energy production preferences is simply choosing the lesser of whichever evil.
Carbon emissions.
Nuclear safety.
Wind farms producing noise pollution, visual pollution, loss of scarce metals, dead birds, etc.
Wave energy, having an impact on sea life, visual impact etc.
Solar PV, visual, cost benefit.
There are positives and negatives for all, so this argument will trundle on forever.
The single most effective method is to reduce consumption. Hang on, what about the job losses?
[img] http://www.smileys4me.com/getsmiley.php?show=1893 [/img]

[Wind farms producing noise pollution, visual pollution]

{loss of scarce metals}

Well these are normally made from tubular Steel and the blades are made from
Glass-fibre reinforced polyester or Wood-epoxy so not any scarce material used.

LOL what ! irrelevant crazy. these are not near homes, and what is visual pollution ?
Now I wonder why so much money is wasted during planning before anything is built
in this country coming up against such strange comments.

Angular plots of pine trees are worse visual pollution in the countryside than turbines.

chiefgrooveguru - Member
The amount of rare earth metals in a typical windfarm is quite staggering - and the negative environmental impact of extracting and refining those metals even more so. But that happens in China so none of the windfarm evangelists ever mention it...

Much like people forget the health and safety issues of Russian/Chinese coal, and the environmental/social/health issues of oil from Nigeria.

Our nephew has been working at a company in Straiton who are leading he world with a hydraulic drive that is going to replace the mechanical gearboxes that apparently cause problems with reliability in turbines.... they are leaders in their technical field... He actually got his job through STW too...

LOL what ! irrelevant crazy. these are not near homes, and what is visual pollution ?
Now I wonder why so much money is wasted during planning before anything is built
in this country coming up against such strange comments.

Just don't stand near one if it's going very fast...