[Closed] Why are you atheists so angry?

You can choose living in obedience to Him (in a similar way that you'd hope your own children be obediet to you)...

[sarcasm] I can see the parallels between children having faith that their parents exist when they get another rollicking for making a mess with the toothpaste and having faith in a god. [/sarcasm]
😯

Do you only follow the good bits?

no I do what the bible says and its is worlking as treat in israel I thik you will find

‘Keep all my decrees and laws and follow them, so that the land where I am bringing you to live may not vomit you out. 23 You must not live according to the customs of the nations I am going to drive out before you. Because they did all these things, I abhorred them. 24 But I said to you, “You will possess their land; I will give it to you as an inheritance, a land flowing with milk and honey.” I am the LORD your God, who has set you apart from the nations.

I wouldn't want a sticky smelly land, to be honest.

Although if there's a nice bit of cheese about I could be tempted.

A land flowing with milk and honey will get very messy very quickly.

Ed. Gah, beaten to it. Sod.

its is worlking as treat in israel I thik you will find

Aren't they supposed to kill everyone without mercy?

[i]"the Hittites, the Girgashites, the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations more numerous and mightier than yourselves, 2 and when the LORD your God gives them over to you, and you defeat them, then [u]you must devote them to complete destruction[/u]. You shall make no covenant with them and [u]show no mercy[/u] to them."[/i] -- Deuteronomy 7:1-2 (ESV)

(Incidentally, http://www.evilbible.com is a great source for this stuff)

What I was meaning is, to test for oneself the existence of God why not 'challenge' Him using his own words/promises?

again, you are asking us to test something using a method prescribed to aid the belief in it's own existence. i don't believe in god, so i'm not going to use god's words or promises to test this. that would be ridiculous.

anyway. peace to you all.

Th ebibkle sppeak s of tolerance at all times and there is no fore , brimstons or vengenace there at all ...my mistake.

That is all old testament, there was supposed to be a new covenant after Christ. If you got a problem with the old testament you need to go complain to the Jews.

again, you are asking us to test something using a method prescribed to aid the belief in it's own existence. i don't believe in god, so i'm not going to use god's words or promises to test this. that would be ridiculous

But that is exactly the way to test it. So if no God, then his way is just made up and you don't find him. If there is a God, then his way would work and you would find him.

That is all old testament, there was supposed to be a new covenant after Christ. If you got a problem with the old testament you need to go complain to the Jews.

So, lets get this straight:

The christians should rip out the old testament and throw it away. The new testament is a new covenant with Jesus that makes it redundant (BTW I have heard this before from a christian friend)?

If so then we can ignore all arguments pro- and anti- that come from the old testament?

I'm determined now that we'll get to a thousand 🙂

I'm determined now that we'll get to a thousand

Well, here you go, never let it be said I'm not willing to do my bit to help.

Yes Charlie I hadn't noticed christianity had junked the old testament.

If you got a problem with the old testament you need to go complain to the Jews.

Jesus was a Jew......in fact Jesus was THE Jew.

Look it's all dead simple.

If your prejudices agree with part of the bible you can take it literally - kill all homosexuals.

If your view is contradictory to the bible then that bit is not meant to be taken literally - Blessed are the cheesemakers

If the part of the bible is self contradictory or plain batshit crazy you either ignore it completely or say it's an analogy or an error or misunderstanding - Stone your kids if they are rude

Politics is the same all over even when it's disguised as faith.

This has been discussed on here before. I'm sure of it. Trying to remember who won last time.

Jesus was a Jew......in fact Jesus was THE Jew

Then how come he had a Mexican name?

Ooooh LOLing at myself for getting that joke into this thread!

If you got a problem with the old testament you need to go complain to the Jews.
Jesus was a Jew......in fact Jesus was THE Jew.

Actually I think he may have been a Christian too.

But that is exactly the way to test it. So if no God, then his way is just made up and you don't find him. If there is a God, then his way would work and you would find him.

my friend is a genius btw way, but the only way to test this is to ask the question that i give you to ask him. and if he doesn't know the answer to that specific question then yes, he is not a genius.
that's called a parable btw. Atheists can use them too.

but enough, i feel like i'm being trolled.

Actually I think he may have been a Christian too.

Don't get that. He worshipped himself? People who came after him (his disciples) are christians. He was the alleged christ of the, erm, 'ians'. 😀

The christians should rip out the old testament and throw it away. The new testament is a new covenant with Jesus that makes it redundant (BTW I have heard this before from a christian friend)?

If so then we can ignore all arguments pro- and anti- that come from the old testament?

Depends who you are arguing with really. But the story goes that God made a new deal when he sent Christ down, he'd be more of a forgiving God and less of the fire and brimstone.

I think there is a sliding scale of opinion wrt the OT. Some folks reckon it was just allegorical others think that it was and is all completely true other folks are somewhere in between. The differences vary both between and within faiths and flavours of Christianity

That is all old testament, there was supposed to be a new covenant after Christ. If you got a problem with the old testament you need to go complain to the Jews.

ay yes I keep forgetting its a different god obviously that all the children of abraham worship despite all having the same book of god - And some say it is a bit illogical eh

Perhaps you could you tell me the bit whwere Jesus recants the decress of god that god said we should all follow ?
It is unequivocal even if some christians/jews/muslims want to cherry pick the tolerant bits of the faith

I'm determined now that we'll get to a thousand

PS DR CM well done you are doing more than most to get to the thousand you are right the forum needs stuff like this ..I recant

EDIT: sorry work got in the way hence the debate has moved on since i last looked

But the story goes that God made a new deal when he sent Christ down, he'd be more of a forgiving God and less of the fire and brimstone.

So he admitted his actions were wrong and promised to change?

The differences vary both between and within faiths and flavours of Christianity

If they can't even agree on the basis of their beliefs in the same god, clearly he is not doing a very good job of guiding them.

If they can't even agree on the basis of their beliefs in the same god, clearly he is not doing a very good job of guiding them.

Or maybe said god is a fan of free will.

Or maybe said god is a fan of free will.

"Believe in me or you'll go to hell" - what's so free about that?

iDave - Member
This has been discussed on here before. I'm sure of it. Trying to remember who won last time.

Please make it stop! 🙄

iDave - Member
This has been discussed on here before. I'm sure of it. Trying to remember who won last time.

I was coming to that conclusion as well. Didn't we manage to get it to look back to the beginning of the thread so it went on forever

EDIT: Found it and I think it was actually you who one in the end

iDave - last poster
Good random stuff = god's hand
Bad random stuff = the devil himself
With god allowing it all to happen for your own good

God people have a cop-out answer for everything from

But it only got to 674

That is all old testament, there was supposed to be a new covenant after Christ.

It's a good line - shame the New Testament and big J appears to disagree:

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. "

-- Mathew 5:17-19 (KJV)

Or maybe said god is a fan of free will.

when i make something and it does not work can I blame it for this failings or is this something only an all powerful and all knowing deities can do??

God has to give us free will or god is the author of all sin - its a cop out for why evil happens - obvioulsy all pwerful god could if god chose , stop evil, but he does not. The reasons for this are unclear, even to those who believe, but you stil need to keep the faith even though you dont understand gods workings and you cannot explain it.
I think that cleared up that one

CharlieMungus - Member

If you got a problem with the old testament you need to go complain to the Jews.
Jesus was a Jew......in fact Jesus was THE Jew.

Actually I think he may have been a Christian too.

So where in the new testament does it say to disregard the old testament hmmmmmm? I mean if we're not in 2011 to take the old testament seriously because it is so obviously an objectionable collection of mumbo-jumbo, why didnt Jesus say so? I mean thats pretty fundamental to a new religion don't you think?

Or maybe Jesus didnt plan on setting up a new cult based on himself. Maybe the people who came after him thought his story was a good one as far as it went but with a bit of polish on the script it could have real legs. St Paul anyone?

obvioulsy all pwerful god could if god chose , stop evil, but he does not.

maybe he can't stop it.

"If god was all powerful he could create a rock even he could not move. If there was a rock god could not move he would not be all powerful."

so can he create the rock or not?

If they can't even agree on the basis of their beliefs in the same god, clearly he is not doing a very good job of guiding them.

Or maybe said god is a fan of free will.

Or, more likely, some people are not very good at being guided or sometimes interpret things incorrectly or don't get things right all of the time ... i.e the Roman Catholics worship/venerate Mary - nowhere in the Bible are believers told to revere anyone but God alone. Then there's purgatory - the existance of which is also non-Bibical.

How many more 'til 1000 is it anyway?

Or, more likely, some people are not very good at [b]being guided[/b]

or sometimes interpret things incorrectly

If a believer spends his/her whole life believing they have interpreted the bible correctly and are acting in accordance to god's wishes, yet when at the pearly gates it transpires their interpretations were wrong, do they get into heaven or not?

So where in the new testament does it say to disregard the old testament hmmmmmm?

If you are genuinely interested then I think a good starting point is the [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sermon_on_the_Mount ]sermon on the mount[/url], the key idea being the reinterpretation of some of the 'rules' such as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turning_the_other_cheek.

are we at 900 yet?

And if you are interested in the bits of the New Testament where it appears to quite specifically say you shouldn't disregard the rules of the Old Testament then a good starting point is this:

http://www.evilbible.com/do_not_ignore_ot.htm

😀

the sermon ion the mount does not reacnt the word of god

The LORD said to Moses - leviticus 20 :1
which then includes th ekill the gays bit

he did not recant the word of god - how could he?- though he may have changed the flavour of some aspects of "belief" and practice - or asserted some attributes - turn the other cheek - above vengenace " but the lord said to leave revenge for god anyway.

Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
romans 12:19

Jesus - "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." (Matthew 5:17 NAB)

Oh dear

and the problem with all of this, such as GrahamS's links and mine, are that they are single passages often out of context. So, for example, one of the links on GrahamS's page was this

Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: “He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.” (Matthew 15:4-7)

but the following verses say this "Peter said, “Explain the parable to us.”

16 “Are you still so dull?” Jesus asked them. 17 “Don’t you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? 18 But the things that come out of a person’s mouth come from the heart, and these defile them. 19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts—murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. 20 These are what defile a person; but eating with unwashed hands does not defile them.”

and this happens all over the place. It's what makes the Bible so difficult to work with but that doesn't mean that it isn't worth trying

and this happens all over the place. It's what makes the Bible so difficult to work with but that mean that it isn't worth trying

deep down, don't you honestly think.......it's just a bunch of mythical stories from the Iron Age. I mean honestly.....?

Do you mean do I ever doubt? That is really the best question so far and I'll go for the honest answer - it is both yes and no. Yes in that sometimes stuff just doesn't make sense and you can't work it out. No in that in no way in my heart do I believe that God doesn't exist so I continue to work it out knowing that there are whole swathes of stuff that I still have to work through. At least another 100 posts worth at least 😉

i see nothin i n your fuller quote that changes this
He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.”

I find it odd that you can worship when you admit you dont understand - how crap is god at explaining stuff then? Oh hold it is your fault innit not gods.:roll:

We could easy do 100 shall we jump about the books a bit

"through a glass darkly"

Be fair if i gave either side everyone would know the passage and yet no one knows this bit 8)

These are what defile a person; but eating with unwashed hands does not defile them.

Clearly the Son of God never experienced a good dose of the squits then! 😆

The point of that reference is that JC quotes an Old Testament "law" which they no longer follow as evidence of their hypocrisy, but he doesn't say anything about it being repealed or it being okay not to follow it.

Surely it would only be hypocritical if he hadn't announced there was a new contract in place?

[i]"Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.

But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?

For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.

..

Ye hypocrites.. "[/i]
-- [url= http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mathew%2015&version=KJV ]Mathew 15:3-4 (KJV)[/url]

Fair enough......I will leave you with my pitch

http://www.humanism.org.uk

Throughout recorded history there have been non-religious people who have believed that this life is the only life we have, that the universe is a natural phenomenon with no supernatural side, and that we can live ethical and fulfilling lives on the basis of reason and humanity. They have trusted to the scientific method, evidence and reason to discover truths about the universe and placed human welfare and happiness at the centre of their ethical decision making.

Today, people who share these beliefs and values are called humanists and this combination of attitudes is called Humanism. Many millions of people in Britain share this way of living and of looking at the world, but many of them have not heard the word 'humanist' and don't realise that it describes what they believe.

It is one of the main purposes of the British Humanist Association to increase public awareness of what Humanism is, and to let the many millions of non-religious people in this country know that, far from being somehow deficient in their values, they have an outlook on life which is coherent and widely-shared, which has inspired some of the world's greatest artists, writers, scientists, philosophers and social reformers, and which has a millenia-long tradition in both the western and eastern worlds.

We also hope to give greater confidence to people whose beliefs are humanist by offering resources here and elsewhere that can develop their knowledge of humanist approaches to some of the big ethical, philosophical and existential questions in life.

Defining 'Humanism'
Roughly speaking, the word humanist has come to mean someone who:

•trusts to the scientific method when it comes to understanding how the universe works and rejects the idea of the supernatural (and is therefore an atheist or agnostic)
•makes their ethical decisions based on reason, empathy, and a concern for human beings and other sentient animals
•believes that, in the absence of an afterlife and any discernible purpose to the universe, human beings can act to give their own lives meaning by seeking happiness in this life and helping others to do the same.

I find it odd that you can worship when you admit you dont understand - how crap is god at explaining stuff then?

You wouldn't give your child everything they're going to need for their whole life whilst they are still a toddler - they couldn't cope or understand it all, and wouldn't know what to do with it.

As they grow and your relationship with them develops you teach them & guide them as needs arise, as things become necessary or appropriate etc.

In the same way, being a Christian is a relationship with God through the Holy Spirit ... it's a process that lasts a lifetime, nobody is perfect, understands everything, or has all the answers.

Was this thread resurrected or reincarnated today?

hehe, well done

The point of that reference is that JC quotes an Old Testament "law" which they no longer follow as evidence of their hypocrisy, but he doesn't say anything about it being repealed or it being okay not to follow it.

The "law" referenced was from the book of Leviticus which were laws for the priests. The point being made I believe was one that you would probably agree with, that the priests were making up laws as they went along to suit themselves and it didn't make any sense from a moral point of view. I think the two of you would get on well.

I'm pretty certain that he wasn't in a position to just rewrite the laws, he could only try and point to a different way of making sense of them. I'm absolutely certain that I couldn't win an argument with you over this though