We needed a bigger vehicle. Having 1 child and trying to make that 2 made it clear that our Ford Focus just was not big enough for some of our journeys. An SUV was.
Another factor was safety. As SUVs became more widely used I noticed that they made it harder to see from a normal car. SUVs are bigger and harder to see past and through.
In addition, or old car was likely to come of worse if in an accident with an SUV. This was something that concerned me as my wife drives my daughter to and from nursery as part of her commute. 8 years ago when we got the Focus it was pretty average sized compared to other vehicles, but that is no longer the case.
So really it was a case of reluctantly joining the club. I would much rather have saved the money. Or gone electric.
I walk to work half of the year, which goes some way to easing my conscience.
Interesting subject. There are three categories of people in this regard: those who don't believe in the climate "emergency" and who won't change their behaviour, those who think it might be or probably is a thing and are wondering what to do about it, and those who are fully-signed up and already implementing change in their life. I think we have representatives of all three here and let's suggest it's an equal split of population across these groups.
I'm in the middle group and where I'm struggling is to understand the relative impact of my lifestyle choices, such as the car I drive. For example, I fly at least monthly for work and holiday - does that make it pointless to do anything else as my CO2 impact is so huge? But I do pay into a carbon-offset tree-planting charity so does that fix my flight addiction? I drive a 2.5 tonne, 4.0 V6 petrol 4WD (not an SUV!) which does 18mpg, but does that matter as the wife and I walk to work and my kid walks to school, so I do half the miles of most people? I'm part-time vegetarian, but I do love to BBQ a steak or brisket at the weekend etc. If I'm honest, a diesel estate would do 99.9% of what I use my car for and at 40mpg, so if I were buying again (I'm not), that is what I would go for.
The point of this grouping is to suggest that you can probably influence the group I'm in through nudge policy, such as this thread where my social conscience is tweaked and I'll slowly shift in the right direction. However, the first group won't be voluntarily shifted and will either not change, or will be forced into change through legislation.
As to why are SUVs popular? Ca. two-thirds of the population don't care or are uncertain / unconvinced about the benefits of alternatives and there are some pretty decent lifestyle advertising and benefits that we're brainwashed into accepting as the positives of our choosing to buy the heavier car alternative. I think we are probably at peak-SUV (and possibly peak-car ownership) so I'd expect to see their popularity diminish.
Because the majority of people either don't believe in climate change, or think it's someone else's problem to sort out.
Also most people are selfish and won't change their behaviour unless forced to. Unfortunately politicians won't force them to, because they want to get elected.
This is why our planet is screwed.
Reading some of the responses reminded me of a quote from the forthcoming Thunberg book:
“When you’re used to privilege, equality feels like oppression”
It seems to me that comparing cross overs to same platform normal cars is not really fair.
E.g. the Ecosport might we be based on the Fiesta platform, but it’s kerb weight is similar to the Focus and actually has more boot space than the Focus.
If your use case needs a bigger car then the EcoSport might be a better choice than the Focus.
Because that's what their neighbour has, and when they go to the car showroom, that's what's on sale and they can afford.
What cars people drive is pretty much tinkering around the edges of the problem (I read somewhere that electric cars have to do something like 75k miles before becoming more environmentally beneficial on the climate change front) and very few even concerned citizens are unwilling to really suffer for the benefit of the environment - me included.
Because the majority of people either don’t believe in climate change, or think it’s someone else’s problem to sort out.
Also most people are selfish and won’t change their behaviour unless forced to. Unfortunately politicians won’t force them to, because they want to get elected.
This is why our planet is screwed.
Exactly.
My parents started with a Jeep Cherokee, then a x-trail and now a forester simply because they get a better view than being in a golf or focus
Living where I do (the cheap bit of the allegedly posh part of Stockholm) and using a bike exclusively for commuting, I see a lot of stupid cars on a daily basis.
In the past month I have seen a Rolls Royce SUV (fugly as sin), a Lambo SUV (small and ugly) and countless Porsche SUVs and V8 G-Wagons. It is literally _just_ the owners having too much money and wanting to make a statement. This is a city FFS and one that has superb public transport, there is barely a need for a car and certainly no good reason for those shitboxes. I'm not going to start on the Hemi-powered US import pickups that are both here, Uppsala and in the more redneck areas of the country.
On the other hand, I see a lot of Teslas, Zoes and Prius/Auris which make far more sense in a city. Mostly taxis, still badly driven, still trying to kill me, but at least they don't spew clouds of shitty black smoke when they accelerate through 'light red' lights.
The quick fix is to base VED on vehicle volume as well as efficiency. Then get rid of the tax fiddle that is the pick-up truck, these are a far worse waste of space than most so called SUVs.
Declaration of interest: T5 and 1.1 Fiat Panda owner.
Just get off the internet
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/stories-51742336/dirty-streaming-the-internet-s-big-secret
...I noticed that they made it harder to see from a normal car. SUVs are bigger and harder to see past and through.
leave more of a gap then and drive slower perhaps
Rather annoyingly there are very few small 4x4s so those that need that drive train are restricted to larger cars. We've just bought a Yeti, that being one of the smaller options.
And... how many flights will you be taking this year?
Personally I declared 2020 a ‘No flight year’ on Jan 1. It’s ridiculous that somehow civilisation has evolved to the point where people believe that taking 4 cheap flights to Spain (or wherever) each year is ok.
Yes, we all need to stop driving so much - and switch to more fuel-efficient, zero carbon based forms of transport. But until we’ve each personally changed our own habits, then who are we to criticise others?
It’s not Government, it’s not companies, it’s not cruises, it’s not airlines, it’s not car manufacturers and it’s not Extinction Rebellion. It’s us.
The vast majority of the SUV’s driven are no different to most saloon/hatchbacks
I'm calling horse shit to this sweeping statement, albeit it's a sweeping statement with many shades of grey to debate.
Take my pal's 4x4 SUV that he calls an eco-mobile because he can get 35mpg if he drives sensibly. In my Honda Civic tourer I can get 35mpg if I rag the arse of it. And then there's space. Most of our towns, cities and car parks just aren't built for cars this size. If you're blind to it, Thunberg's quote above applies.
Of course there are a couple of Graudian articles on both the emissions (2nd greatest cause of CO2e increase) and the anti-social aspect of them in towns. If you care, you care.
Isn't it the case that our consumption of meat and the effects of that industry is more of an issue than our transport emissions?.
OP - can you give us a detailed account of how you live your life/house/holidays/leisure pursuits before singling out SUV/4x4 drivers...
I run an old 4x4 used to tow a horsebox and for other horsey duties.
Last flight I went on was 5 years ago though to Paris, and in my 52 years I've been abroad 6 times.
So unless you live off-grid in a teepee in forest somewhere it's hard to see which families pollute the most. Or to say you are more eco-friendly than someone who drives an SUV.
Rather annoyingly there are very few small 4x4s so those that need that drive train are restricted to larger cars.
It's a curiously British problem this. Car manufacturers do make normal cars with 4 wheel drive - British people just aren't willing to buy them so a lot of companies have stopped selling them.
My mum spends a lot of time on farms and towing but as my parents don't want an SUV for so many reasons they have a Volvo V60 4x4. Not the Cross Country version, just a normal looking Volvo with 4 wheel drive. It's still a big car but it does 10mpg better than the XC90 and doesn't look obnoxious. So you can get a normal car with 4wd over here.
I went to Davos a few years ago. That's a rich town that gets afflicted by snowy winters. I didn't see one SUV instead while I was there. People drive Suzuki Ignis and Baleno 4x4 hatchbacks, Subarus, VW Golf and Audi 4x4s. They didn't seem to feel the need to have a car that was taller to throw their kids in, or to hoist their old bodies into. Nor did they seem to want a big car to show off with. They just bought normal cars that were up to the job. SUVs here have become such an ingrained part of British vanity that manufacturers don't sell normal cars with 4wd here because no one buys them.
Isn’t it the case that our consumption of meat and the effects of that industry is more of an issue than our transport emissions?.
Apparently. It's something I've always done something about (eating small amounts of meat from responsible small scale farms rather than lots of supermarket meat) but I've realised that isn't enough. I'm not willing to give it up entirely so I'm making other compromises in my diet to make up for it (less meat but also less animal products generally, certainly no more milk). Being greener doesn't mean living like a hermit but making sensible choices. Like not giving up driving entirely, but reducing your miles not using a hulking mass of an SUV or fuel guzzling sports car when a sensible option exists.
I suspect, though, if you held a gun to most SUV driver's heads and gave them a choice between living as a vegan for the rest of their lives or bending down slightly to out their kids in the car they'd choose the latter.
(This SUV thing is a thing that's ground my gears for the last decade and as I don't know anyone selfish enough to own one to sound off at, other than my mother in law who we berate regularly for her choice of car, this thread has touched a nerve)
the country has just elected a climate change denier as PM and you wonder why SUV is the best selling car ?
1. Because the majority of people are entitled, selfish buggers who buy a vehicle which suits the 1% of the time they need more space/power/towing capability.
2. Because the tax on fuel is insufficient to punish the selfish twunts who buy such a vehicle.
And… how many flights will you be taking this year?
I will be taking none, the same number as I have taken for 20 years.
I also drive a car that does 60mpg and keep that car for 10+ years.
I also do lots of other 'eco' stuff and do actually give a shit
However, I am well aware that I am just throwing a cup of water on a house that is on fire (to paraphrase) and sometimes wonder why I am bothering.
Next door neighbour commutes 60miles per day in his new electric golf, neighbour over the road has a rolls, a range rover and an audi s5 convertible but is retired and does eff all miles, the newest of his cars is the 10yo convertible.
Its not always about what you drive..
Isn’t it the case that our consumption of meat and the effects of that industry is more of an issue than our transport emissions?.
Why are the two mutually exclusive?
Yeah but... So what?
Everything so far is just consumerism and that isn't going away any time soon.
As for this:
We needed a bigger vehicle. Having 1 child and trying to make that 2 made it clear that our Ford Focus just was not big enough for some of our journeys. An SUV was.
Another factor was safety. As SUVs became more widely used I noticed that they made it harder to see from a normal car. SUVs are bigger and harder to see past and through.
In addition, or old car was likely to come of worse if in an accident with an SUV. This was something that concerned me as my wife drives my daughter to and from nursery as part of her commute. 8 years ago when we got the Focus it was pretty average sized compared to other vehicles, but that is no longer the case.
So really it was a case of reluctantly joining the club. I would much rather have saved the money. Or gone electric.
I walk to work half of the year, which goes some way to easing my conscience
Do some research next time. Like, actual research and not what the salesmen or internet people tell you. An SUV is not safer, it has a higher centre of gravity so is more unstable and crash protection is no better than any other modern car. It's also, as pointed out before, safer for any poor meatsack you may happen to hit.
the country has just elected a climate change denier as PM and you wonder why SUV is the best selling car ?
Absolutely !
Good point well made.
You voted for a government who drive around London in v8 Jags that rarely break 15mph. That have something like 120 RangRongers for special duties, yea the v8 ones. The diplomatic service has 300+ cars on its books that don’t pay the congestion zone charge, not Dart Charge nor are included in ULEZ.
And you moan about SUV’s.
Best crack on working for a living...
Next door neighbour commutes 60miles per day in his new electric golf, neighbour over the road has a rolls, a range rover and an audi s5 convertible but is retired and does eff all miles, the newest of his cars is the 10yo convertible.
Its not always about what you drive..
Exactly - Tax on cars should be reduced and tax on energy should be massively increased. That goes for all types. Kerosene (planes), Fuel (Cars) and Electricity (from a non-eco source). You wan't to live 60 miles from work, fine, but you're damned well gonna pay for your consumption.
However, I am well aware that I am just throwing a cup of water on a house that is on fire (to paraphrase) and sometimes wonder why I am bothering.
Same feeling I have: that I can try as hard as I can but it'll still make next to f-all difference. But I now also feel that I've got to at least try - if everyone else did the same then perhaps we'd make a bigger difference collectively. Big change needs to happen at policy level though.
There are some aspects to my lifestyle that I can definitely improve on (car, van, old/less-efficient house) but I'm balancing these off by doing what I can.
I drive a 4x4 pickup - possibly not the SUV category the OP is having a pop at but similar.
I get low 30s to the gallon. I bought it because a) I need the space and b) need the off-road ability. However, I’m well aware that I only need both of those on a small percentage of the miles I drive, but when I need them I really need them (lots of muddy fields, woods etc). I just can’t afford to run 2 vehicles so it’s definitely a compromise.
I’m really conscious of the low mpg and if something existed that offered similar space, ground clearance, off road capability and ability to hose out the load area but did 80mpg then I’d be all over it!
The diplomatic service has 300+ cars on its books that don’t pay the congestion zone charge, not Dart Charge nor are included in ULEZ.
Oh, well, that gives complete justification to the 300,000 odd people driving around in Nissan Qashqais. 🙄
I'm calling BS on the "I need an SUV 'cos I need space" argument - few have practical boot space because of the high boot sill / floor. Go down your local DIY shed and laugh at folks trying to carry their flat-pack purchase. 4x4 is another - most have low profile road tyres which are pretty useless on anything but tarmac. It's entirely a fashion / bigger-is-better bullying thing and they're trashing the roads. Many are so wide the drivers can't even stay inside the white line and assume it's just a means to judge the middle of the road they're entitled to drive down the middle of.
The worst contributor to pollution are shipping - something like 20% of global pollution involving the shipping of stuff from one side of the world to the another. If you want to get serious about reducing it, stop buying cheap plastic crap from half-way around the world. It would be great if you could buy responsibly made stuff from neighbouring countries, but hell know, lets abandon the notion and import junk from elsewhere.
Because all the while the media colludes in blaming farmers for climate change we don't need to worry about what we drive.
I wonder how many people in this thread, if they were given the opportunity to go and live in a commune, completely off grid, with the means to see out their days with a negative carbon footprint, would jump at the chance.
Didn't think so
Same feeling I have: that I can try as hard as I can but it’ll still make next to f-all difference. But I now also feel that I’ve got to at least try – if everyone else did the same then perhaps we’d make a bigger difference collectively.
This is pretty much how I see it as well.
There was a reply to a comment of mine in the coronavirus thread saying that if the worlds population was reduced by 5% that would only take the population back to 2014 level, having minimal, if any, impact on climate change.
With that in mind the UK accounts for about 0.9% of the worlds population, meaning that if we were all wiped out overnight it would sadly make no difference to climate change. I do believe that, as a country, we can attempt to lead by example and I will personally do what I can, but whether a small number of UK motorists choose to drive a Volkswagen Up! or Tiguan is ultimately irrelevant.
I wonder how many people in this thread, if they were given the opportunity to go and live in a commune, completely off grid, with the means to see out their days with a negative carbon footprint, would jump at the chance.
Doing something is better than doing nothing. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. If the SUV drivers compromised by doing fewer trips in a smaller car and eating less meat and the crusties compromised by living a comfortable but environmentally friendly life we'd be in a better position than if lots of people still drove round in behemoths and a handful lived in the woods. But everyone would be happier.
We needed a bigger vehicle. Having 1 child and trying to make that 2 made it clear that our Ford Focus just was not big enough for some of our journeys. An SUV was.
One of the most successful and popular family hatchbacks was too small for you because you have 2 kids? 😂
Doing something is better than doing nothing. It doesn’t have to be all or nothing. If the SUV drivers compromised by doing fewer trips in a smaller car and eating less meat and the crusties compromised by living a comfortable but environmentally friendly life we’d be in a better position than if lots of people still drove round in behemoths and a handful lived in the woods. But everyone would be happier
Ah, so you want all the comfortable trappings of modern life (all of which have an environmental impact, even if it's just the manufacturing process) but only the ones that won't visibly stand out as you not doing your bit?
Nowt personal mate, just playing devils advocate
I certainly WANT all the trappings but I've come to realise that I can't have them all.
Quite telling how there's all the excuses: size; view (lol); back issues; circumstances; easier to get in and out (arf), etc etc... but no-one actually admits - I don't give enough of a shit about the planet, nice car is more important to me.
I wouldn't single out SUVs.
God I could rant for hours about SUVs and crossovers.
Take a product, a car, then make it worse for the sake of fashion.
And putting aside the environmental argument they are less safe and encourage shit driving. "I like the high driving position because I can see the road better" actually means "I'm too bloody lazy to pay attention and leave a decent gap to the car in front so I can see the road properly"
I don't really have a problem with proper 4x4s like Disco's, some people actually need to drive off road occassionally, but shit like this:
They are even marketed as "Urban Ready"
“I’m too bloody lazy to pay attention and leave a decent gap to the car in front so I can see the road properly”
The sooner we are all forced into autonomous vehicles, the better.
I wonder how many people in this thread, if they were given the opportunity to go and live in a commune, completely off grid, with the means to see out their days with a negative carbon footprint, would jump at the chance.
Didn’t think so
is it near a beach with decent surf? if so, i'm in.
richmtb
I don’t really have a problem with proper 4x4s like Disco’s, some people actually need to drive off road occassionally, but shit like this:
It's the other way round isn't it?
Discos (2100KG) and FFRR (2500KG) are heavy, luxury vehicles which are for the most part not used off road - short of churning up the grass verge when they park up for the school fete. Yet they carry low range gearboxes and locking diffs.
The Juke is a light (~1200KG), most often FWD vehicle that sit a bit higher up.
mine is (astonishingly) 8" up from the parent model hatchback, a mere 2" wider than that same hatchback, and about 4" longer. Not exactly that much bigger. mpg of the base car (on the same engine) is about 1mpg better.
it was a bought instead of an estate car, because it was that bit higher, which stopped some problems the wife was having with her back when loading small kids into child seats
I wonder how many people in this thread, if they were given the opportunity to go and live in a commune, completely off grid, with the means to see out their days with a negative carbon footprint, would jump at the chance.
Didn’t think so
What?
