There was a thread on here a few weeks back, a well known poster who is generally ridiculed tbh, was asking about buying a Porsche.
No one bothered about climate change.
Now that IS a pointless car.
Or an adult can make their own decision about what they do with their own life?
@fossy what saloon are you comparing against?
If it's not like for like then there is no comparison.
If you were comparing something based on the same platform then that's a valid comparison however you would be proven wrong on all counts were that the case. You cannot build something with a higher drag coefficient using more materials and end up with something lighter and more efficient.
Or an adult can make their own decision about what they do with their own life?
they have in the past...but will they continue to be able to do so in order to battle climate catastrophe? This is a loaded question.
The peeps who purchase SUV's are offered very attractive finance packages to do so.
It's not all bad news. With global warming it will be too expensive to sit inside an SUV with the air-con at max, thus encouraging their owners to commute by e-bike.
Comparing it against the car it replaced - the Qashqai replaced the Primera - we've got both. Both are petrol as well, mine 1.8 118 PS, Qashqai 1.6. - same PS although less torque. It's lighter than my car, but has similar dimensions. The diesel in Nissans are quite dirty.
Where my saloon is far better on the motorway and A roads for handling, the Qashqai handles the pot hole strewn roads in town far more comfortably - the suspension is noticably beefier than my car despite the similar weights.
As others have said, there are other advantages - two trail bikes go in the back with front wheel off (lay down), easy to get in and out (I've got a bad back) can chuck a kingsize divan in the back.
Plenty of folk rattle round in vans and pickups, who definately don't need one.
Capitalism, Consumerism, Convenience.
People want to make money, spend money & display money.
Until there's a significant change in the above nowt's gonna get better.
It's ironic that peoples aversion to change will ultimately end up in the sort of drastic change that they wished they had done something to avoid.
Quite simply, status and ignorance.
You can't drive your 5 bed detached house around town so how else can you let people know your stretched to the hilt financially? Well drive a big 4x4 on PCP of course.
To be honest my 12-14mpg petrol coupe that I drive at weekends probably kills more baby robins than the 25mpg diesel Discovery that I drive for the rest of the week, dunno
To be fair, what we drive makes not a fig of difference if we're all going to hell in a handcart.
Hmm, maybe it’s just a question of ignorance then?
Or not giving a toss?
To be honest my 12-14mpg petrol coupe that I drive at weekends probably kills more baby robins than the 25mpg diesel Discovery that I drive for the rest of the week, dunno
See, I know you use your Discovery on some absolute quagmires for work, so that's legitimate.
Your Audi, though, is an environmentally unfriendly (and very dull) folly. But at least you don't use it every day like SUV owners. It's an occasional treat, and in moderation I can see how people justify that sort of thing. Like how I justify the fact that I still eat meat- I don't do it often so I'm not a complete environmental disaster.
Because we are past the point of no return and us driving around in mildly more uneconomical SUV's is not going too make a jot of difference.
Banning the biggest greenhouse emitters* would be the best course of action if you think you're going to stop things getting worse.
*that'll be children.
Or an adult can make their own decision about what they do with their own life?
I was merely pointing out that folk jump on SUV owners, and say **** all about a pointless indulgence. At least you get 5 folk in a SUV.
Ya tit.
See, I know you use your Discovery on some absolute quagmires for work, so that’s legitimate.
Your Audi, though, is an environmentally unfriendly (and very dull) folly.
I've not actually used the Discovery as it should be used, but it may end up on some solar farms this year - it's good for towing a 2 tonne caravan around though!
The Audi - I'd be interested to be able to calculate how much environmental damage it's done over the 7 years of it's life actually, as it's only done 20k - ok, that 20k could have been done in a more environmentally friendly car, but....
And dull? You'll have to come for a spin in it next time you're back in Derbyshire, if your morality will allow you to 😉 It's certainly not dull - have you ever been in one?
I bought my SUV primarily to annoy strangers on the internet.
I’m calling that a success.
Further success would be some sort of ‘climate denial’ & active enjoyment of owning said SUV instead of being wracked with regret
Maybe the question for STW is why so many people own works vans to support a hobby?
At least you get 5 folk in a SUV.
7. Or more specifically in my case, 6 and the dog.
Further success would be some sort of ‘climate denial’ & active enjoyment of owning said SUV instead of being wracked with regret
I fully believe in Climate change but simultaneously enjoy my SUV. It’s red.
Chris Harris has this covered.. 2.25 onwards.
I'm surprised people are defending them as environmentally sound when all the research says that they're responsible for negating any gains made from more efficient engines, EV's and hybrids etc. How can heavier, larger and less aerodynamic vehicles cause less emissions than their opposites? I don't know much about cars but googling 'fuel efficient cars' it's hard to notice not one is an SUV (nor the 'mini' SUV's).
Like I said, which no one has addressed, they're also more dangerous - a) because people take more risks in them because they perceive themselves as being safer (even though SUV's have higher kill rates because the higher center of gravity and b) because of the 'slab' fronts hits children in the face and adults in the upper body instead of lower body/legs. It's interesting to note that fatalities for pedestrians were in decline but this was reversed just around the same time SUV's became popular. I often wonder if SUV drivers had the choice to get hit by a car, they'd still go for an SUV.
I guess there's some just something always appealing to humans about "Bigger and Faster" despite the externalised costs to other road users, the environment, etc. It's interesting to me because I genuinely can't understand people's motivations at times, although I do suspect deep down that it relates to basic human psychology that is manipulated by the big budgetless car makers to sell products - status anxiety, women's fears of protecting their children, etc. I'd honestly see SUV's as the last thing in terms of practicality for our roads but I guess I was wrong lol.
I guess the image of a half a mile of these massive cars, each with one person behind the wheel, which have totally destroyed the verge, all idling away in a cloud of noxious diesel smoke that I see day in day out on my commute is just so ****ing depressing, so it made me curious. Thanks for the input!
There’s no justification for the ST to exist though, is there- just the same as the SUV, it’s a waste of resources
What isn’t a waste? Pretty much every bike owned on here is a waste of resources. Of course, we like them, so they are okay. These threads only ever push the problem to somebody else’s back yard.
Because when you bought it, there was a perfectly acceptable alternative that gave you the same performance, same engine and same space that was a few inches lower, used less of the world’s resources to make and fuel and would have saved you money. You should have bought whatever hatchback or estate was built by the manufacturer of your SUV on the same platform.
Thanks for the finger-wagging lecture, I’ll take it on advisement.
In fact I’ll completely ignore it, and go ahead and replace my ageing Octavia with a crossover SUV.
There is so much bollocks being talked about SUV’s as if every one is a two-three tonne barge with a big V8 doing 16 to the gallon. The vast majority of the SUV’s driven are no different to most saloon/hatchbacks, other than often being significantly shorter, and easier to park, but the most important feature is the higher seating position, which for an increasingly large portion of the population makes a huge difference to getting in and out of a car; it certainly does for me! I’m moving as many as forty to fifty cars a day, and at 65 a lot of the regular cars I really struggle to get in and out of easily, whereas something like a Qashqai, Mokka, Kuga, Sportage I can easily slide into without difficulty. Handling-wise, of course they’re different to a lower hatchback, but so chuffing what, nobody buys one to go tearing around like a bloody boy racer!
My likely replacement for my Octavia is probably going to be a Ford Ecosport, a Fiesta-based crossover, which is perfect for my needs, it’s much shorter than the Octy, a bit taller, likely a fair bit lighter, and with either a 1.0 petrol or 1.5 diesel, which is what I’ll go for - better CO2, innit. Which is another thing, the rising of CO2 levels being blamed an SUV’s - that, I think, is just scapegoating, the real issue is diesel sales have plummeted due to the VW NO emissions cockup in the States, and a rise in the sale of petrol cars, which has meant CO2 levels have gone up, there’s a direct correlation. We get a lot of SUV/crossovers at work, but we get a lot of bigger vehicles, van-derivatives and MPV’s, often seven-seaters, which are significantly bigger than any of the SUV’s we get in, and considering how many on here have big vans as daily transport, bitching about something smaller than my hatchback seems borderline hypocritical. I think the biggest SUV’s we’ve had recently are some Jag F-Pace from Enterprise, which are all 2 litre diesels, hardly planet destroyers.
My mate has just got an X5M.. thick end of 600bhp.. says he's getting about 14mpg but he wanted something "practical" for his son (who is 2) and his pram etc.. It is without doubt the stupidest car I have ever been in. Mind bogglingly fast for a big old lump mind! He should have got the M5.. saved £20k and a been whole 3 mpg better off.. not to mention a much cooler car.
Another pal has just got an X5 as well - the one with the massive grille because he likes big cars and lad at work is wanting to trade his 4 series in for a RR Sport because he likes being high up. It's madness. As Chris Harris says in the vid "they cost so much and offer nothing in return".
Can you tell I'm not a fan..?
Oh my god CountZero. Have you not read anything anyone cmhas written? Like that bit about the Qashqai being bigger and 6mpg worse than the car it's based on? Of course the EcoSport is better than your Octavia, but it's still worse than the Fiesta it's based on.
It's 200kg heavier than a Fiesta. That 200kg doesn't come for free--it's extra steel to smelt and iron to mine, extra oil to drill for to make the extra plastic. That 200kg takes more fuel to move it. The 1.0l 100hp engined version does 12mpg less than the same engined Fiesta. Unless Ford have found a way to beat physics it HAS to be worse for the environment than a Fiesta. And it's longer than a fiesta, so all that stuff you spouted about them being shorter and easier to park is nonsense.
To say that an SUV is no different to a hatchback is a complete fallacy, and to willingly buy one because you like sitting up high at the expense of the environment is selfish. What did 65 year olds with gippy backs drive twenty years ago? Oh, yeah, normal cars.
I have an 18 year old estate car with a powerful petrol engine that does about 27mpg
I drive it approximately once per week for about 40 miles return trip, but get the train locally once a week, cycle about 60 miles a week - all leisure/pleasure as I work from home - and get the train when I travel for work and go on a couple of short haul flights a year.
I enjoy driving my car because it's really fast and it helps me get to where I can go mountain biking on my eBike.
Am I awful?
Define SUV? Are all SUVs the same? What about someone who does high miles in an hatch v someone who does low miles in an SUV?
What about people like me who have no children who don't contribue an extra 58 tonnes of CO2 per year?
Ridiculous to pick on one facet of someone's choices without seeing the big picture.
I will wager an average of 5 tonnes of CO2 for the average vehicle versus someone with 3 kids lecturing someone else on CO2.
My karoq is also 1L with a boot size of 580L v a Golf of 380L. Also I don't have to sit on the sodding floor.
And I prefer driving it to any low riding hatch.
I was merely pointing out that folk jump on SUV owners, and say **** all about a pointless indulgence. At least you get 5 folk in a SUV.
Ya tit.
Calm down mate. I don't intend to let others tell me how to live my life, but if you want to you crack on and be miserable.
I literally wouldn't even look at the emissions if I was buying a new car. Deprivation seems to be very in fashion this week, a drop in the ocean would be an overstatement.
I've only had one child, ergo I can spunk my co2 quota on cars
The science says that SUV’s are the second leading rise in emissions and have totally negated all emissions saved from EV’s
What if you drive an EV SUV?
A lot of the arguments are based around jealousy... sort of “whaaaawhaaa, luk wot dey got, wy ant I got wun”
And the answers evident.
Where do 1/3 vehicles being 4 x 4 come in BIDMAS rules?
#year6parent
No matter what the fuel source is - driving a two tonne vehicle is always going to be more inefficient, more dangerous and will take up more and more space, leaving less for other road users. Personally, I couldn't drive something like that because I worry a lot about externalising costs and I think the last thing the world needs is another SUV/car on the road. But hey, looks like we're in the minority =)
Not jealousy, taste.
SUV's in an urban setting are crass.
A lot of the arguments are based around jealousy…
Aye, so they are.
Keep telling yourself that.
Not jealousy, taste.
But who defines taste? Half of the watches in the watch thread look like something your weird uncle would wear with his brown Farah's in the '70's, yet stw thinks they are cool
and most SUV’s on the road do nothing close to 50mpg in reality, more like 30MPG.
Our previous generation XC60 gets about 38mpg (average over 24,000 miles) and that’s almost entirely commuter driving. On longer runs it gets almost 50mpg. I am pretty sure the current one will be much more efficient too.
They arent for me.
Fair enough if you live up a farm track and/or need one for work.
I for one just dont get the whole faux 4x4 in a suburban setting thing.
My mother has one. My father has one. Numerous friends have them. All use them for commuting A roads.
But hey that's my opinion right?
As for practicality you are doing it wrong. A berlingo is where it's at 👍
I’m confused as I thought STW shunned modern, economical cars in favour of old, polluting shitboxes?
Anyway, my wife likes her Land Rover because it is very comfortable, easy to get the kids in and out of and is generally a very pleasant place to be. 7 seats is a bonus too.
My car is a 15 year old hot-ish hatch that cost buttons but isn’t that kind to the environment.
Saying that, I’ve got a full electric car on order and the Discovery Sport will probably be replaced in a couple of years by the hybrid or electric equivalent so does that make us goodies or baddies?
Wife has back issues. Higher seats are easier for entry/exit.
🤷
I’m confused as I thought STW shunned modern, economical cars in favour of old, polluting shitboxes?
Anyway, my wife likes her Land Rover because it is very comfortable, easy to get the kids in and out of and is generally a very pleasant place to be. 7 seats is a bonus too.
My car is a 15 year old hot-ish hatch that cost buttons but isn’t that kind to the environment.
Saying that, I’ve got a full electric car on order and the Discovery Sport will probably be replaced in a couple of years by the hybrid or electric equivalent so does that make us goodies or baddies?
At the moment it’s making you look like a show-off...
At the moment it’s making you look like a show-off…
Why is it?
Not trying to at all and I bet our monthly outlay is comparable to plenty of others. The LR costs hardly anymore than the Ford it replaced, is cheaper than the estate I wanted and leasing electric through work makes buying second hand virtually pointless.
This won’t work for many but in the same way neither would not having a car work for us. I’d love to be able to ride my bike to work but that’s just not practical. Horses for courses, we all have different circumstances.
Meanwhile I see that VW aren’t even going to bother selling the new MKVIII Golf in the US due to the competition from SUV and trucks except for the R. Over there the car market seems absolutely polarised. Huge double cab trucks/SUV or Tesla. Weird.
EV seem to be taking off pretty well over here and there are lots of options. I sat in a e-208 this week. Great looking thing and +200 mile range. I can see us owning something like that. The manufacturers just need to get nearer to ICE/PHEV prices to really take off.
Huge double cab trucks/SUV or Tesla. Weird.
Huge double cab trucks = "murica"/patriotism
Teslas are at least American so at least the liberals can show some level of patriotism
It's a weird country that charges **** all for fuel and has basically no corners. The cars they want/need are hugely different from what we want/need
The big trucks thing is weird... Like, I used to be on some US motorbike forums and people genuinely would not accept that you can tow a motorbike on a trailer behind anything that doesn't have a massive engine. It's about the same as having a couple of fat people in the back of your car but "I need my dodge ram with a cummins in so I can tow". I don't just mean as an excuse to buy a big truck, I mean I remember a dude who really wanted to tow his bike but "couldn't" because he only had a jeep cherokee with the straight 6.
Less emissions from vehicles? We need a complete rethink of how our society works. Less focus on financial ‘efficiency’ for business and more on social efficiency for all.
A move to more home-based working, enabled with collaboration tools will help. A more locally-focussed employment model with less centralised and more regional organisations, would help. Taking a long view on investment payback rather than a short-term and constrained return. All would help businesses and organisations deliver more rounded value to their operations rather than this financial years ‘bottom line’. A way to reward something other than consumption... Reduce commuting, waste, etc.
Without change to our system and how we define value, the options to improve sustainability is limited.
If you look like Arnie the Barbarian
hot babes with skimpy clothes will flock to you.
