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Drive round East Lothian. You’ll see it plenty.
Have you tried it, you might see a big group of various offset two abreast pairs but 3 doesnt really fit on UK roads, I have never really seen it and I regularly ride in groups of up to 15ish. If a rider peels off the front of a 2 abreast group they'll normally need to go onto the other side of the road to do it.
I don't know which is the most unpopular bicycles or motorbikes, I ride both so I suppose I'm everybodys darling. On the continent totally different especially Italy,number of times I was waved to the front of a queue ( motorbike) thumbs up smiles, and that was the police! every one here just seems in a bad mood.
Well, some good news boys and girls!
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jan/13/birmingham-ban-cars-driving-through-city-centre
Have you tried it, you might see a big group of various offset two abreast pairs but 3 doesnt really fit on UK roads, I have never really seen it and I regularly ride in groups of up to 15ish. If a rider peels off the front of a 2 abreast group they’ll normally need to go onto the other side of the road to do it.
Whatever. Do you think hodgynd and I are just making this shit up?
Because just as you seem to think its all/most drivers so drivers think about cyclists…
No, I said that the facts show that most of the damage is caused by drivers. I didn't say most drivers cause damage.
If we want to reduce harm on the roads, concentrate on what's actually causing the damage, and stop apologising for the cycling problem that doesn't actually exist.
Well it hasn't happened in months but I was told last night to "get a f ing car" by a driver. He was in a 20 year old Renault Clio. I wish I'd been able to have a more in depth conversation with him. He was obviously an expert on fine automobiles.
Whatever. Do you think hodgynd and I are just making this shit up?
Yes, either that or you dont understand that riders follow slightly offset and it looks like 3 abreast to you. Why do I never see it when out on my bike in groups or on my motorbike or in my car?
Well it hasn’t happened in months but I was told last night to “get a f ing car” by a driver.
It's not often I get abuse from drivers, but when I do it's usually this. It's actually an interesting one, it goes some way to answering the question posed in the thread title.
The automatic assumption by this group of drivers is that I'm only on a bike because I don't have a car. Presumably this is because I'm either too poor to buy one, or in some way I am incapable of driving one. The fact that I've got several cars which sit at home unused during the week obviously doesn't occur to them, and my decision to live 7.5km from my work because I like getting some exercise on my way there would probably be quite alien.
By assuming that I am in some way unable to make this journey by car, straight away they are turning me into something inferior to them - and it's not a great leap from there to further lump me into a group of 'them/others'.
Humans can do some pretty nasty things to each other once they have downgraded someone from 'a person' to 'one of them'.
The automatic assumption by this group of drivers is that I’m only on a bike because I don’t have a car.
I get this assumption continuously from my colleagues and customers when they find out I usually cycle to work. Until we change that mentality and riding a bike around is just seen as an option equal to driving, taking the bus or a taxi then we are fighting a losing battle.
I thought this assumption would change when a colleague bought an E-bike for his commute but he told everyone that he got it because his car failed the MOT and he couldn't afford to buy a new one. He does have 4 kids though! Didn't stop the 'Can't afford petrol!?' mocking appearing again though.
Anagallis..
There is absolutely nothing wrong with my eyesight ..and I'm a reasonably intelligent being ..and if I'm telling you that roadies are riding 3 abreast I dont expect to be called out as a liar.. I think you know that this happens and you are a bit of a wind-up merchant.. Take a trip up to the North Tyne Valley on any given weekend when the weather is fine and see for yourself...
I dont expect to be called out as a liar.. I think you know that this happens and you are a bit of a wind-up merchant.. Take a trip up to the North Tyne Valley on any given weekend when the weather is fine and see for yourself…
Never saw it when I lived in Newcastle and road all round Morpeth, Rothbury etc, admittedly that was a long time ago. Dont see it where I live now. If you want to get all git under the collar and ranty about it crack on.
That's quite funny..are you a stand up comic in your spare time ?
I'm not the one calling other folks out ..so maybe take a slice of your own advice ..😂
I do see cyclists riding 3 abreast, but really not very often, as noted above, one lane isn’t really wide enough.
Much more common however, is groups of offset pairs of riders, who, when viewed from behind, certainly appear is if they are riding 3 abreast.
Well this thread is enlightening.
I’m not the one calling other folks out
So why did you spittle flecked post from last night get deleted?
Glad you saw that ..
Glad you saw that ..
Whys that then? Do you reckon your internet hard man act is worrying me?
I do see cyclists riding 3 abreast,
I live rurally and I see it all the time. 3 riders completely fill up the left hand side of the road, just as a car does. I can pass them when safe to do so just as I would pass a person driving very slowly in for example a Honda Jazz (it is always a Honda Jazz)
Well I must live and ride in the ****ing twilight zone then as I agree with martymac, it can happen but rarely does.
AA..hopefully not..
I was merely trying to explain the likely outcome if someone called me a liar to my face ( instead of the safe comfort of an internet forum)..and as that's very unlikely to happen then we will just have to agree to disagree...( hopefully this can now be put to bed..but I'm not holding my breath..)
What car for angry forumite cyclist?
AA..hopefully not..
I was merely trying to explain the likely outcome if someone called me a liar to my face
For towns like Accy, the rot started when its primary industry – cotton – dried up, and it’s the same for many other Northern towns that were reliant on things like coal mining. East Lancashire was a pioneer here, the spinning jenny was invented like two miles from my house, but in the 70s mills in Lancashire were closing at a rate of one a week. When it all collapsed it decimated the affluence in the area and we never really properly recovered.
veering widely OT .... but what REALLY decimated NE Lancs was the inability to accept it was no longer one of the richest areas of the UK.
You are probably too young to remember but we had a coal mine at Hapton Valley...
We had a decent amount of engineering .. but noone was accepting a standard of living comparable with most of the UK. Back in the 80's I was exclusively trained to work in a factory...metalwork, woodwork and technical drawing were pretty much compulsory. The stated aim's of the schools were top turn out good little factory workers despite there being no actual jobs.
wrong thread... but exactly what the country is doing now
Back OT .... I just went to the local convenience store... nice lady in a car waves me across then proceeds to park illegally right opposite a legal parking space
In fact its a single lane pull off double yellows one side parking on the other and there were perhaps 3-4 legally parked cars and 7-8 illegal so actually more space to park legally than illegally?
10' perhaps further to walk???
I couldn't be arsed this time but previously I asked someone (as nicely as I could but again legal free spaces) why they chose to park illegally... after a degree of defensiveness they eventually said "but everyone does"...
So the thing is the double yellows are there for a reason... partly pedestrian safety but also because its so tight that reversing in has a high risk of hitting one of the cars parked illegally.. so I asked this old dear who would be at fault if her car got bumped... of course she "was only going to be a minute" etc.
WTF has this to do with cyclists?
This is just perception... these people have normalised ignoring the legal parking because they see "everyone else" ignoring it... it's obviously not EVERYONE but that is their perception
This is exactly as they see cyclists... enough break the rules to be perceived as "everyone" combined with the "but I'm only going to be a minute" special pleading about "how traffic lights don't apply to bikes..." etc. followed by totally blind (literally) comments like never seeing cyclists 3 abreast...
A certain UK attitude towards cyclists, albeit exported and amplified as with much Down Under (NSFW)
I gather it’s similar in the US yet not quite so much so.
Now, is this video explaining the reason why cyclists are vilified, or is this video itself an example of why cyclists are vilified?
Some responses. Make sure to scan the comments for context
^^ Might wanna tag those vids as rather sweary. Though the language isn't anywhere as offensive as the prick presenting them.
No cyclists are breaking any laws where I live as there are none to break (no lights, no crossings, very few junctions etc,.) yet the drivers are still mostly impatient and dangerous.
A lot of blind corners on the roads where I live and after riding there for 20 years I can safely say that more than 50% of drivers who are behind me before the corner will pass me metres away from the corner. If I hear a car coming the other way I ride out towards the middle of the road where I get beeped at and they typically give me a hand sign or a beep afterwards as well so still don't get that I was stopping them having a head on crash.
Seville is an interesting case study about how the public perception of cyclists and cycling as a mode of transport can be changed. It's a while since I listened but I think the key was to make the change quick and make it easy, so people fast learned the benefits to their lives.
https://podtail.com/en/podcast/reasons-to-be-cheerful-with-ed-miliband-and-geoff-/84-on-your-bike/
20 minutes into the podcast and still no answers how I cycle to Machynlleth and back of a weekend but learned I shouldn't wear a helmet or protection.
Google maps says 20hrs each way so even if I had the energy that's 8 hours or so and I'm still waiting for the solution
still no answers how I cycle to Machynlleth and back
What are you planning to do when you get to Machynlleth?
What are you planning to do when you get to Machynlleth?
Ride the Athertons bike park.. but its compulsory helmets... despite me just learning they are not needed
(This was actually last 1/2 term ... Dyfi, Antur and Revs.. but that is typically my use of a car.)
Last weekend I could have realistically got a train+bike if I wanted to spend 2 1/2hrs each way instead of 40 mins... inbetween FOD/BMCC (Peaslake possible to cycle), Okeford, Swinley (possible to cycle) ... and one trip in the car I can't not use the car as it was to the MOT and back (bike in car)
That's basically my car use in the last months... I'm totally missing how a few planters and cycle paths are going to change this for me.
I’m telling you that roadies are riding 3 abreast
I've been cycling for a long time, but outside of road racing, I've never seen a 3 abreast bunch before. I'm curious how that works, and how the riders circulate when they are riding 3 abreast?
I’ve been cycling for a long time, but outside of road racing, I’ve never seen a 3 abreast bunch before. I’m curious how that works, and how the riders circulate when they are riding 3 abreast?
It's a 2-abreast group where one person has pulled off to the side and is drifting back. Or a rider in the pack has braked and the rider behind him has pulled out to avoid running into the back.
Of course 3-abreast happens occasionally - ride leader swings out a bit to get a clear view behind, individuals swerving potholes or taking evasive action, someone drifting to the back down the outside... Or a group stopped at lights/junction getting going again and taking a few seconds to sort themselves out. Or maybe going up a hill and faster riders passing slower ones as each individual within the group finds his/her own natural pace.
Might take a few seconds but it's not a case that a huge group is riding along with everyone in it permanently 3-abresst thinking "yeah, **** everyone behind!"
The most common one though is seeing a 2-abreast group from behind and, because of the angles involved, tiny overlaps of wheels, tiny offsets between riders etc, it can look messy. Almost as though they're 3-abreast...
Might take a few seconds but it’s not a case that a huge group is riding along with everyone in it permanently 3-abresst thinking “yeah, **** everyone behind!”
The most common one though is seeing a 2-abreast group from behind and, because of the angles involved, tiny overlaps of wheels, tiny offsets between riders etc, it can look messy. Almost as though they’re 3-abreast…
and back to the OP ... the general public don't care about the difference or for that matter why
from their perception it's almost like you are using the roads merely for leisure not that you are in the same rush as them to get to work|school|holiday destination
Sorry for the irony but this just comes back to what's good for the goose and gander.
You can argue all day long how you have a perfect right to go 2 abreast... etc. or why you can't just stop and let a bunch of cars and whatever past... but if they are late for work or looking like they miss a check-in at a B&B they think their need is greater...
I'm just pointing this out... if you can't see their POV then why do you think they will see yours?
I’ve been cycling for a long time, but outside of road racing, I’ve never seen a 3 abreast bunch before.
Same here, its as crazy legs said. But even on this cycling bored you still get spittle flecked ranters about it.
just let it go son ..you're becoming a total bore now ..and to be honest it does you no credit to keep on describing yourself in this way ..🤪
You know, thanks to this thread I'm starting to understand now why cyclists are vilified in the UK. We're a bunch of argumentative bastards.
We’re a bunch of argumentative bastards.
No we're not!!!
That's not an argument, it's just contradiction.
No we just like discussing things
Is that better?
We’re a bunch of argumentative bastards
I reckon that's just people that frequent internet forums. I mean, if we were actually out cycling we wouldn't be on the internet arguing.....
The problem is cars. Cars are crap. They bring the worst out in people. They make you impatient, self important, grumpy, inconsiderate, lazy, arrogant and a whole lot more. People in cars are nasty to cyclists, walkers and other drivers.
People who are happy to let people walk slowly infront of them in, say, a supermarket aisle, can't wait a few seconds until it's safe to pass a cyclist... Because they are now in a car.
I drive a car because like most of us I have developed a car dependence. I try and drive it as little as possible but when I do I make a horrid noise, endanger people when I pass them, split communities as I pass by, help to ruin the climate and mess up air quality, cost the tax payer money whilst lining the pockets of unethical multinational corporations and corrupt regimes. All the while I get fatter and more stressed.
I wish we could uninvent them.
stevextc
If the cycle path is crappy then you slow down or just push the bike… I mean your not in a rush are you?
The stretch of the M6 between junctions 4 and 5 has the A452 running alongside it - which would you use?