literally anyone could’ve done a better job (even Magic Grandpa)
Much as I think Magic Grandpa is pretty incompetent, he can't possible be as bad as Boris, who just seems to have a natural ability to make the wrong choice at every opportunity......
Tory nightmare... social responsibility, spend spend spend, ERG, nothing left to sell off except the NHS.
Bet rishi is scratching his arse and thinking what the **** do i do now...
What is it about the UK that has resulted in this…?
https://twitter.com/peterstefanovi2/status/1351452082658795522?s=21
And that question was asked before today’s record Covid death figures were announced. So what is it about the UK? It’s not about rule breaking, it is about government instructions and support being woefully lacking, and mistimed (late, late, late).
I know horrifying isn't it.
The fact that the situation has made piers Morgan seem like the spokesman of the country.....
He’s a prize –———, but the question is valid, and the lack of an answer telling.
Bojo has not done the best, but I don’t think anybody anywhere has nailed it.
China and South Korea nailed it IMHO, I don't pretend to understand such things in great detail, but they supposedly treated it like SARS, going hard and early and aimed for eradication whilst it was still manageable. Despite it originating in China, they actually lost less lives per capita than New Zealand who are seen are the gold standard in Covid control. Their response seemed over-handed and too restrictive to the West at first, but it's proven to be the lessor evil in the long run.
New Zealand made very few, if any mistakes, but they had an geographical advantage. They held their first mass music event at the weekend. 20k people!
Apparently in the West we treated it like Flu, because that what he had experience of and it bit us in the arse.
Has Boris done the worst job in the world, we have the worst death rate per capita. I don't think HE thinks he has, like all countries apart from perhaps China, he made decisions based on balancing economic concerns with health concerns, I think he gambled on getting the vaccine out before a second wave and lost. The 'English' strain has been described as 'politically convenient' it was first discovered in September, but has been used by Government (in Wales too) as a reason for the huge spike, which seems to have peaked 2 weeks after Xmas, a Xmas in which Boris couldn't bare to bring himself to 'cancel'. He also made the mistake of not coming down hard on people in his circle who broke the Covid rules, which gave some members of the public a self-justifying excuse to break them themselves.
He failures have all come because he seems incapable of accepting inconvenient truths until it's too late.
I think he's hoping his final gamble with Covid will be the one that pays off, and the one that's remembered next election. The UK (with little help from Gov) developed one of the first vaccines for Covid and the most practical to administer and we passed it for use first. If they can continue to roll it out faster and faster (hence the switch to the 12 week wait) then we will be the first western country to get over Covid and this will give us an advantage economically and will save lives on the back-end of the crisis, but if the vaccine becomes obsolete because of mutations or the 12 week wait proves to be worse than a slower 3 week wait then he'll lose again and we'll all pay.
I can't blame him for the actions of some people though, I don't know what it's like in other counties, but the way some people have acted through it is disgusting really.
He’s a prize –———, but the question is valid, and the lack of an answer telling.
Modern politics rules are 'Never apologise, never explain', to which Trump added 'never tell the truth'.
We've lost any attempt at discourse amongst politicians (or certainly the Tories). They know full well how the screwed up but are hoping if they ignore it it will either go away or they'll find some way of blaming it on Labour or the NHS down the line......
Genuinely worries me that the current government have made Jeremy Hunt and Piers Morgan look like beacons of rational leadership 🤦♂️
I agree kelvin, bojo and the current government have done nothing but make this pandemic worse than it needed to be. Either through delay, causing confusion or just plain trying to wish it away.
Bojo has a lot of blood on his hands from this, but I doubt he cares.
has failed time and time again to make decisions in good time. The whole nonsense about having all kids in school buildings for ONE DAY this term is just the most recent example.
So again… the public are not to blame, remember that… Johnson is.
He's not really though, is he? Not him alone.
He was chosen by his party and elected by the public, and he is accountable to his colleagues and to parliament.
Here in Wales we have a Labour government and a very competent LibDem education minister, yet they too were going to open schools right up to the last minute. There's lots of balancing to be done and lots of last-minute decisions do have to be taken.
Lots of reasons other than Boris for a high death rate. A fat, unhealthy, old population for example. A health system run down by Labour as well as Conservative governments. Not being at the arse end of the world. Data collection methods. You name it. Plus the population hasn't really taken responsibility.
I wouldn't say the lad done good, but...
yet they too were going to open schools right up to the last minute
Schools are open now, but we know what you mean. Now, where were schools fully open to all pupils for ONE DAY of term? There’s “last minute” and then there is “too late”.
And again, that was his fault, not that of the public.
Plus the population hasn’t really taken responsibility.
They have. Don’t believe the spin.
The big exception is people being unable and unwilling to take two weeks unpaid off work to isolate. Especially not multiple times. Other governments worked this out early on, and supported people to isolate. “Right wing” governments as well. Johnson and his band of no-marks can’t see the wood for trees, ‘till they’re pulling splinters out of their faces and calling it “unavoidable” or “unprecedented” months after they should have got on top of what is required.
A health system run down by Labour as well as Conservative governments.
Show your working
A health system run down by Labour as well as Conservative governments.
1) Labour poured billions extra into it.
2) We've not had a Labour Goverment for 10 years
It's been falling at a % of GDP since the Tories took over...
https://neweconomics.opendemocracy.net/why-is-the-nhs-in-crisis/
I read that graph as the last Labour Government rapidly increased spending then the Tories / Coallition have been slowly decreasing it for the last 10 years...
We also don't spend that much of GDP of it (ignore America, their system is just insane)...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_per_capita
I don’t think anybody anywhere has nailed it.
I'd say New Zealand have come pretty close (I'm well aware the population density and movement of said population is not comparable to UK) with under 3000 cases and 25 deaths and Australia has also shown Bojo's band of clowns up with less than 30000 total cases (over 20000 of which were in Victoria, the other 8000 or so spread throughout the rest of the country) and under 1000 deaths. Comparing those stats to the 1600 + deaths the UK reported today shows what a monumental f***up Boris Johnson's government has been from the outset. That's not to say they deserve all of the blame, I have worked throughout the whole pandemic and a lot of the people I work with basically don't watch the news on TV or read newspapers, while they know of the pandemic they've no idea of what is and isn't allowed/not allowed under lockdown restrictions, and no intention in following them anyway if they did
1) Labour poured billions extra into it.
2) We’ve not had a Labour Goverment for 10 yearsIt’s been falling at a % of GDP since the Tories took over…
I don’t know all the ins and outs, but that chart seems to me to be pretty telling. Spending on the NHS is still, even after a decade of Tory cuts, higher relative to GDP under a decade of Labour except for a brief spike at the end of their reign. And that wasn’t down to higher spending but to lower GDP due to the financial crisis.
But either way, never in my lifetime have the NHS and education not complained of underfunding. So it’s too simplistic to just blame it on the Conservatives. I’d never vote for them, but...
Now, where were schools fully open to all pupils for ONE DAY of term? There’s “last minute” and then there is “too late”.
And again, that was his fault, not that of the public.
Plus the population hasn’t really taken responsibility.
They have. Don’t believe the spin.
If the population had taken responsibility, they wouldn’t have sent their kids to school for that one day... 😉
If it’s obvious to you what Boris has done wrong, don’t you think it’s as obvious to everyone else? So why haven’t people gone beyond? People aren’t even doing what they’re told.
I won’t defend the Tories, but the failure of the other parties to do much better elsewhere suggests it isn’t just down to party politics or an individual leadership failure.
The other parties had to be careful though.
They couldn't be seen to undermine the public health comms. Ask for clarification yes but to contradict would be dangerous.
The general population was surveyed for school return over xmas and a majority didn't want them to go back.
Most wouldn't just ignore official guidance and ask the polls have consistently shown support for tighter restrictions throughout
So why haven’t people gone beyond?
Many have. Put the parameters depend on how you earn your living.
People aren’t even doing what they’re told.
The vast majority are.
I'm in the WhyThe*ArePeopleSoStupidThatTheyAreBlaminEachOtherForMinorTransgressionsRatherThanTheGovernmet camp.
earlier today I watched three couples get out of three cars and go for a walk together with the dogs. Zero * given about how they looked.
I mean really. ****ing really. We have a government who have run down the NHS for decades, demonised the poor and low skilled workers for years, ****ed up almost every decision possible on Covid, passed track and trace to their chums to Syphon off billions and deliver **** all. Forced schools to reopen for one day, threatening legal action for non compliance, before u turning and heading in completely the opposite direction. And all you lot get upset about are people breaking a few minor rules about meeting outside.
It's unbelievable. The Guardian is right. The government have done an exquisite job of setting the rabble at each others throats to hide the magnitude of their ****up.
And judging by page 1 of this thread they have succeeded.
Complaining about people going for a walk.... FFS
Ooh, just read page two, thank god. There is some sanity.
Just to be clear, I think people breaking the rules indoors need a slap. But the people moaning about groups walkin,cycling etc outdoors in smallish groups really need to get a grip.
A health system run down by Labour as well as Conservative governments.
I don’t know all the ins and outs
uh huh....
Edit.
Life is too short to argue with Tory enablers and apologists.
Don’t blame the pubic… they made a whole series of choices on all sorts of matters when they voted… blame the man not doing such a crucial part of this job… he’s failing everyone…. including those who voted for him, as well as those of us that did not.
Posted 4 hours ago
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grum
Free Member
It’s been widely known for years that he was a lazy, amoral, lying narcissist who’s only concern is self-advancement – no-one can say they weren’t aware.
Agree with the second post here. This idea that we shouldn't blame the public for voting bojo is bullshit. Everyone knew what a **** he was, but millions still voted for him
Those people should hang their heads in shame.
@eddiebaby That needs to go on "Show us the last thing you made" thread!
Worked every day since the pandemic began & would love to work from home instead of in a hospital risking infection & infecting others
Let's just remind ourselves of this:
https://twitter.com/paullewismoney/status/1351258522974101504
900 consultants on £1,000 a day, some on up to £7,0000 a day DOING ****ING WHAT?!!!
Has anyone heard any figures for test and trace recently? They were absolutely dismal and getting worse. Far too low to make any impact, then the figures disappeared. What on earth are these people doing? Other than creaming off vast quantities of taxpayers money.
But the treasury can't afford 20 quid a week for people living on the poverty line or give free school meals for kids who are below the poverty line
This government really are beyond contempt. They're utterly morally bankrupt and completely corrupt
singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/which-covid-stereotype-are-you/page/3/#post-11692156
Yes but what's that got to do with anything?
Yes but what’s that got to do with anything?
That it sounds as if you voted for this shitshow in a bin fire but won't own the consequences of doing so?
My point was, I don't believe the opposition would have done a better job, in any way. And I stand by that. You are all entitled to your opinion, but its merely your opinion. Which means nothing to me at all. So crack on. You or nobody else knows how it would have been handled by anybody else, and comparing country to country is like comparing apples and Oranges. Its easy being a back seat driver/keyboard warrior isn't it.
Can only agree with Craig
And this is why our country is so screwed ^^^^
My point was, I don’t believe the opposition would have done a better job, in any way. And I stand by that.
I guarantee you that a labour government wouldn't have spent the last year handing a million quid a day to consultants to provide a system that doesn't work. How many billions has this cost now? 22 billion? 36 billion?
They'd have done what everyone who knew what they were talking about said the government should do: put test and trace in the hands of regional health authorities instead.
You can argue about the other stuff, but this is one thing we can take as an absolute given
The advantage of this not just being financial, but all the evidence shows we'd actually have a system that works
Imagine that?
Mad, eh?
900 consultants on £1,000 a day, some on up to £7,0000 a day DOING ****ING WHAT?!!!
Probably providing expert advice at the going rate... which the government then didn’t take.
Similar story about highly paid consultants the other day in Wales which has a Labour government: Article
It’s mostly the system, the world, not the parties or the individuals.
Top 5 worst countries in the world for lockdown response, referred to as 'plague island' by the world's media, and still our servile population make excuses - it's unbelievable.
https://www.movehub.com/blog/best-and-worst-covid-responses/#three
The UK’s high death toll is the result of a dangerously late lockdown, and an administration that was slow to grasp the seriousness of the pandemic.
In the early days of the pandemic, most countries had begun their lockdown process – the UK Prime Minister, however, reportedly missed five Cobra meetings. Almost five weeks after the first Covid-19 case was confirmed in the UK, Boris Johnson announced: “It’s very important that people consider that they should, as far as possible, go about business as usual.”
It wasn’t until 285 people had passed away that Johnson decided to lock down the country. And, not only was the lockdown late, but it was considerably lax – travel restrictions in and out of the country weren’t even imposed until June!
And who could forget about the trainwreck of clumsy mistakes from the UK government? Ministers allowed 25,060 patients to be discharged from NHS hospitals to care homes without being tested for Covid-19, chose to abandon contact tracing at the height of the pandemic in March, and failed to provide adequate protective equipment for front-line workers.
Looks like Boris’s tactic to “take it on the chin” and “let the virus move through the public” didn’t work so well after all.
Fast forward to September, and the UK’s ‘Eat Out to Help Out’ scheme backfired massively – some experts believe it triggered the country’s second wave, which has seen more cases than the first. Despite this, Chancellor Rishi Sunak has not ruled out its return in the New Year.
Unlike other countries, who have stuck to a rigid plan throughout the pandemic, it seems the UK government is sticking to a regime of locking down the country every few months and hoping for the best. Although the UK has just come out of a month-long lockdown, there’s already talk of another happening in January.
And no it's not hindsight, plenty of people including me were saying at the time that the response wasn't adequate.
A bit of sense at last
Yes but what’s that got to do with anything?
@craig5 - is this in response to my Leave means Leave question?
Yep
I'm in the lost 2 family members plus it was touch and go for myself camp and apart from less lung capacity now I have to battle not to want to argue with every cockwomble on FB who talks absolute crap.
On the Tory thing I am still totally baffled as to why they didn't shut the airports from day 1- we are an island and should have used that fact to our advantage as Aus and NZ etc did
Chrispo
So it’s too simplistic to just blame it on the Conservatives. I’d never vote for them, but…
Can only agree with Craig
Suspect.
"I'd never ADMIT voting for them..."
I am still totally baffled as to why they didn’t shut the airports from day 1- we are an island and should have used that fact to our advantage as Aus and NZ etc did
Arrogance and British exceptionalism - we are Britain and we don't need to shut down for some stupid virus, we can defeat it with bluster and 'bulldog spirit' and 'world-beating' public services.
A bit of sense at last
Thanks 😉
still our servile population make excuses – it’s unbelievable.
I’m not making excuses. I’m just saying there’s little to suggest that Labour would’ve done better.
Bear in mind that almost all other countries are also condemning their governments for messing up.
On the Tory thing I am still totally baffled as to why they didn’t shut the airports from day 1- we are an island and should have used that fact to our advantage as Aus and NZ etc did
It appears that Priti Patel agrees with you
Though obviously, she omitted to mention it before now. It's a good job she wasn't home secretary at the time eh?
Oh... erm...
https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1351847709150425088?s=20
Sorry to hear about your loss and hope you get back to full health
Yes and all governments have made mistakes but we are LITERALLY ONE OF THE WORST IN THE WORLD, despite having advance warning, being an island, and one of the richest countries in the world.
I’m just saying there’s little to suggest that Labour would’ve done better.
If someone repeatedly stabs you in the face, do you stand there saying 'well there's no evidence to suggest that this stabbing is any worse than any other stabbing I might receive'?
“I’d never ADMIT voting for them…”
Why not?
@craig5 - speaks volumes about what kind of person you are. But that is just my opinion, so won't bother you. Crack on.
I’m just saying there’s little to suggest that Labour would’ve done better.
Blind faith. We can point you to multiple occasions that Labour have called for action, only to be derided by Johnson for doing so... only for him then to, belatedly, too late, take the action. Yes, Labour would have done better. Most Conservatives would have done better. Few politicians would have done worse. The UK is being damaged more by this virus more than any comparable country, in terms of lives lost, health damage and economic damage. That is down to poor leadership. It's not a Left/Right issue... it is Johnson issue. He keeps failing, and the UK is paying too high a cost to keep him as PM... he should resign.
Isn't it obvious comrade
Whatever russianbob
I don’t know all the ins and outs, but that chart seems to me to be pretty telling. Spending on the NHS is still, even after a decade of Tory cuts, higher relative to GDP under a decade of Labour except for a brief spike at the end of their reign. And that wasn’t down to higher spending but to lower GDP due to the financial crisis.
An odd way of interpreting it. The day the Tories took power the NHS spending was unchanged from that under Labour, so they don't get any credit for the fact they started with a high watermark.
What they did choose to do was to reduce spending every year since (as a % of GDP).
Stereotype 69, derailing a thread into ANOTHER C19 discussion, rather than answering the question at hand (related though it may be).
An odd way of interpreting it. The day the Tories took power the NHS spending was unchanged from that under Labour, so they don’t get any credit for the fact they started with a high watermark.
What they did choose to do was to reduce spending every year since (as a % of GDP).
But the chart shows spending as a share of economic output, not the absolute amount of spending.
The chart shows that, relative to GDP, the Tories have spent more on the NHS in the past decade than Labour did in the previous decade, apart from just after the financial crisis. The ratio shot up then because GDP nosedived, not because spending went up.
Taking GDP out of the equation, a quick Google shows that, in real terms, over the same periods, the Tories have actually spent more on the NHS than Labour did.
Now I'm not defending the Tories or their cuts. I'm just pointing out that some of the anti-Tory pro-Labour comments above are not supported by the facts and may be misleading.
I’m the depressed, anxious and socially isolated stereotype.
This, plus
Smug middle class work at home arsehole who still has a job.
Apart from the middle class bit. Would have been nice to be furloughed for the break from the grind, but more important is that my job is safe and doesn't look like will be affected long term by the pandemic.
As for stereotype 2, I haven't been dogging since the lockdown began.
Have we moved on from blaming each other yet? If so, don’t worry, the government is going all guns blazing for the “all back to mine” covid stereotype today. But, of course…
https://twitter.com/benkentish/status/1352320128831135744?s=21
https://twitter.com/benkentish/status/1352320849420951555?s=21