I wonder how long it’ll be before people start having ‘pox parties’?
OI!
Now is not the time to get all frisky ‘n kinky!
People in France in vast majority following advice.
They weren't before the started enforcing it. This is where the UK is now. The sooner the get on with enforcing it the better. Honestly, if I'm going to be WFH for the forseeable the last thing I need is two grumpy and anxious teenage girls in the house, but that would be preferable to the anxiety caused by them going off to school every day and wondering if they're going to come back infected.
Mrmonkfigure that is it in nutshell. It’s based U.K. health structure, social structure and even behaviours which is why it varies from other countries models. It’s about spreading the load so the NHS can do its thing manage it the best they can without being flooded.
There is no part screaming experts say we’re doing it wrong as other experts says we’re not. Not every country is doing this sort of model, others are that’s because they have to base it on their health and social structure not China’s,
As for kids at personal level, yes there’s very high risk kids out there if my child was one of these I’d not send them and they would be in a lock down. I wouldn’t wait for a full lock down or the school to tell me.
SteveXTC I hope your son recovers soon, I’ve seen some seriously ill kids with the noro virus.
At this point it’d be more accurate to say, “Yes, there’s no vaccine and may never be one so everyone has to be infected to get sick and possibly die. There’s no alternative.”
Something that may develop is a better solution for those that have it (anti viral drugs), so delaying the number who have it and get seriously ill/die is a good thing as they could be saved by medication that is only available in a few months time.
B&Q full of oldies collecting plants/paintbrushes/paint.
And the hot dog stand in the car park as busy as ever.
#advisorylockdown
TBH, as long as it stays like this I’ll be happy. People going about their daily business just taking natural precautions like keeping the sick away from the general population.
Loads of frantic fuss and bluster when common sense will prevail.
#socialexperiment
For those who have concerns about their kids due to health risks I’ll post this again.
B&Q full of oldies collecting plants/paintbrushes/paint.
Sounds like my mother yesterday morning just before she locked down for 12 weeks. Means she can get on with jobs in the house to stop her going stir crazy.
Thanks mrmonkfinger & Drac.
There have only been two cases where people have been reinfected worldwide. Ergo people do most likely get resistance once they’ve had it.
Can we block this guy’s nonsense from this thread in some way?
according to Dr Stephen Gluckman, an infectious diseases physician at Penn Medicine and the medical director of Penn Global Medicine, it seems likely that having the disease once results in immunity in most individuals - as is seen with other coronaviruses.
We know people develop antibodies. That's doesn't mean everyone gets resistance for life but it's pretty encouraging.
There is no part screaming experts say we’re doing it wrong as other experts says we’re not. Not every country is doing this sort of model, others are that’s because they have to base it on their health and social structure not China’s,
The thing is, it's our own experts who are saying that we should have been following the advice of other countries epidemiologists - as they had or have a better understanding of the situation.
As Ian Dury noted, there ain’t half been some clever ****
A lot of them go to imperial college.
They’re cleverer than me, for sure.
And a lot of the ones from imperial were the ones involved in changing the governments course of action.
There was a level of incompetence and arrogance in our initial response that needs to be recognized and needs to be kept in mind as the country takes further steps.
if I’m going to be WFH for the forseeable the last thing I need is two grumpy and anxious teenage girls in the house
If my 16yr old is anything to go by, they'll be less of a problem than you think. All their friends are in the same boat, and with WhatsApp, Instagram and Messenger etc they're in permanent contact so they're not missing anything.
That said, said 16yr old did just ask if she could head out for a minute to see a friend, so I'm not sure how long before she starts complaining properly...
Self-isolating here for us, coughing started yesterday morning, so given I work for PHE strict adherence to the advice it is. Doesn't feel like something we would otherwise be off with, but to someone more vulnerable it may well be.
Our school has had to remind parents to let their kids know that taking the piss with a cough to skip school is not big nor clever... yes there are clearly some that stupid.
If my 16yr old is anything to go by, they’ll be less of a problem than you think.
As posted previously my 15 year old had a complete meltdown at the idea of not seeing her mates. Younger one is extremely quiet, possibly even depressed. When we explained to them why, they basically said it's not necessary because it only affects old people and everyone else is ok. They are not going to get the message until they have a very clear instruction that they should be social distancing. If they have no choice they'll cope better, as it is now they just think we're restricting their freedom for the hell of it. Not just kids either, it seems many adults are exactly the same.
The thing is, it’s our own experts who are saying that we should have been following the advice of other countries epidemiologists – as they had or have a better understanding of the situation.
The thing is it’s also our experts who are suggesting this is a good plan.
There is no part screaming experts say we’re doing it wrong as other experts says we’re not. Not every country is doing this sort of model, others are that’s because they have to base it on their health and social structure not China’s,
Also, The WHO are still asking for countries to contain - plenty of other countries around the world agree with this stance - including Africa who will be hardest hit by a world that has decided to let it rip through their populations.
Don't you think that saying "well we're not China, what's good for them isn't good for us" is a bit brexity? You are saying that we shouldn't be towing the line as citizens of a global community.
They are not going to get the message until they have a very clear instruction that they should be social distancing.
The instructions are pretty clear cut;
Avoid gatherings with friends and family. Keep in touch using remote technology such as phone, internet, and social media
Everyone should be trying to follow these measures as much as is pragmatic.
Can’t they read?
since you have all the answers .
assuming the follow the other expert advice , when social unrest comes in a couple of weeks of lockdown and numbers of infected are still climbing - what then ? whats the next move ? (a question i have asked a number of times on this thread alone and not yet seen a plan)
going nuclear from the start seems flawed in all but a totalitarian communist state - just from a logistical and supply front for those locked down.
We will end up in lock down as things develop thats a no brainer but timing that shut down correct is critical for a whole lot of systems (not just the economy) not to fall on their arse.
- and thats been my view from the beginning(see start of thread) not something i read.
Can’t they read?
Of course they can, and I'd suggest your response is unnecessarily aggressive. The problem is they're being told to stay away from their mates outside of school, but that it's ok to be with them in school. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the contradiction there.
They are not going to get the message until they have a very clear instruction that they should be social distancing
Can't you give them that instruction?
You're the parent
We will end up in lock down as things develop thats a no brainer but timing that shut down correct is critical for a whole lot of systems (not just the economy) not to fall on their arse.
No ones saying it shouldn't be timed.
They have a problem with the concept of suppression as opposed to containment.
straight out of politics' book of answer a question you don't have an answer to with a question ?
Can’t you give them that instruction.
We did, and still are. But as I said before, when the govt are saying it's ok for them to see their mates in school, it massively undermines us telling them it's not ok to see them outside. You do realise that teenage girls aren't obedient automatons don't you?
Unless you can point me to a country planing to lock down until a vaccine is developed in 24 months or maybe never.
The Autumn according to various German sources. One company is so close Trump tried to buy it for a billion. Testing due start if not already started.
Trumps shinanignas:
I see that France are threatening us now, if we don't get our shit together.
There have only been two cases where people have been reinfected worldwide. Ergo people do most likely get resistance once they’ve had it.
That's a very shaky conclusion to draw given the number of infections and the timescale thus far. It may be true but there's no "ergo" anything of the sort. Aside from anything else, it could mutate tomorrow.
However the “get sick and possibly die part” is yet another fallacy.
It's not, it's exactly what's happening. Sure, it might not be the only outcome, it's early days yet, but the notion that we just all need to catch it and then we'll all be safe is incredibly woolly (and dangerous) thinking. If that were true we'd have eradicated things like measles years ago without needing any of that 'vaccine' rubbish.
"Herd immunity" is a smokescreen. That's not how herd immunity works. Come back to me with that when we've got a proven vaccination.
You do realise that teenage girls aren’t obedient automatons don’t you?
I also realise that invoking Boris Johnson when they won't do as I say is unlikely to be successful.
"Boris says you're grounded" has never, ever worked for me.
Going in hard with a lock down is obviously not the best approach but the reality is that most schools seem to be on partial closure, I'm sat here twiddling my thumbs doing nothing, some kids are at home, some kids no doubt are down the park mixing, a minority are in school. The plan, whatever it is, cant be this.
But as I said before, when the govt are saying it’s ok for them to see their mates in school, it massively undermines us telling them it’s not ok to see them outside.
No it doesn’t. Outside of school they’ll bump into more then just their mates, it will be more of the general public, oldies out getting essentials or exercising.
News > UK > UK Politics
France threatens to ban British travellers because of UK's slow coronavirus responsePrime minister Edouard Philippe says France would have difficulty accepting British nationals if delays continue. French Prime Minister Edouard Philippe issued the warning in a televised address to the nation
French Prime Minister Edouard Philippe issued the warning in a televised address to the natio. France has criticised Boris Johnson's slow response to coronavirus and said it could ban British nationals if the UK does not implement containment measures in line with the rest of the continent.
The UK has been invited to align with the border shutdown, which would exempt essential travel and those returning to their homes.
The British government has not yet said whether it will go along with the plan: the UK's decision will affect Ireland because the UK and Ireland have a common travel area without passport controls between the two countries. Ireland has followed the same approach as most other EU countries and shut down its pubs last week, despite St Patrick's Day being on Tuesday.
Yeah but but we're taking back control! Project fear!
I reckon the UK is about to be shat on from a very high place by the rest of the global community.
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Going in hard with a lock down is obviously not the best approach
What makes you so certain that this is "obviously" not the best approach?
i expect it within a fortnight.
my folks are currently in france with edukator in a locked down state. they(government) have gone for the big stick approach.
Id think our numbers were more inline with the USA rather than what we are reporting them at - in that we have not reported new cases for a few days , and our recovered data seems somewhat skewed - 1950 cases and only 69 recovered - i struggle to believe that.
No it doesn’t.
Fancy coming round and explaining it to them? FFS I'm not making this up, and I'm telling you this would be easier for them if the uncertainty and mixed messages coming from the official advice were removed.
markets are none too impressed with the UK, the £ is under serious pressure at the mo
SteveXTC I hope your son recovers soon, I’ve seen some seriously ill kids with the noro virus.
Cheers, that is a few years ago now but it's never been certain how recovered or vulnerable he is, especially as why the virus hit him so hard. (Recognising it can be serious he was taken from Kingston Hospital and intubated between there and St Thomas' P-ICU )
We were at Gt. Ormond rheumatology as outpatients on and off for 2 years after as the reason was thought to be auto-immune.
The point really he was a very healthy kid who reacted very very badly to a virus. He had a full crash trolley and nurse 24 hrs for 3-4 of the 10 days and required a resuss multiple times and on a ventilator for 7-8 of the 10 days. (I realise that's vague but days and nights etc. were all a blur)
Much as that was incredibly frightening he was in the best place in the UK with all the equipment and staff and would have died several times without it. [definitively his heart and breathing we not going to start themselves]
We never knew which came first the virus or autoimmune... just that seemingly at random this virus had a devastating effect beyond the normal on a previously very healthy and robust kid and without the ICU he would have died.
FFS I’m not making this up, and I’m telling you this would be easier for them if the uncertainty and mixed messages coming from the official advice were removed.
I’m pretty sure no advice would be a really bad thing.
No it doesn’t. Outside of school they’ll bump into more then just their mates, it will be more of the general public, oldies out getting essentials or exercising.
Only if your kids are delinquents and don't listen to you to stay indoors.
Oh wait, a lot of British kids are.
The Italian and French kids are reportedly behaving themselves, so maybe you are right drac - maybe the British are so rabidly selfish that they can't help have this rip through the nation and for us to be embarrassed on the world stage again.
We never knew which came first the virus or autoimmune… just that seemingly at random this virus had a devastating effect beyond the normal on a previously very healthy and robust kid and without the ICU he would have died.
Awful time for you, yes this can happen with viruses but each one effects age ranges differently then there’s a very small percent who react very badly to them.
The Italian and French kids are reportedly behaving themselves, so maybe you are right drac – maybe the British are so rabidly selfish that they can’t help have this rip through the nation and for us to be embarrassed on the world stage again.
I bet at the start they didn’t or when the boredom really sets in.
Only if your kids are delinquents and don’t listen to you to stay indoors.
How do they get to school if they stay indoors?
The point is that clear messages from the government, rather than them leaving it to schools and parents to make it up as they go along, would make it easier for teens (and teachers, and parents). No need to start throwing around the insults.
What makes you so certain that this is “obviously” not the best approach?
Well had we gone into lock down a week or two ago we'd be going ****ing mental by now, when it starts it does need to start hard though.
Fridays advice from Boris was it friday or monday I forget and not shutting schools does seem at odds though. Really has been zero point me distancing from others whilst my wife is working in a school, in contact with hundreds of kids, so am I and so us my son, meanwhile I cant go cycling with 10 other people. Its not logical, same as the school wont shut without a positive test when non of the suspect cases are being tested.
Anyone else thinking Valance hasn’t really abandoned his “herd immunity” strategy. If they were serious about suppressing this they would be throwing the brakes on hard now.
Suspect they are trying to keep the schools open as long as possible to get the kids infected as they are unlikely to present in ICU. Trouble is nobody knows about the long term health implications - pulmonary fibrosis etc. And in the coming weeks they will be infecting their parents/grandparents.
Suspect their lacklustre responses is going to overwhelm the NHS by a fair margin in a couple of weeks, despite what they say.
uncertainty and mixed messages
Once again, there are no mixed messages, no matter how much you want there to be.
School - Stay open. Clear, unequivocal, not mixed.
Vulnerable - Self-isolate.
Other - Social distancing.
You may not agree with the advise, and that's fine, many don't, but it's not mixed at all.
I’m pretty sure no advice would be a really bad thing.
Thanks for the facetious comment. You know exactly what I mean in relation to the schools being open.
The Italian and French kids are reportedly behaving themselves.
No doubt because they have a clear and unequivocal instruction to stay out of school, and stay away from others outside their families. No exceptions, no caveats, no possibility of an excuse to disobey.
percy
Can’t you give them that instruction?
You’re the parent
That 'authority' diminishes rapidly ... and from some point kids are more looking for any reason why they shouldn't or argue. Having competing advice and competing examples just makes that harder.
I bet at the start they didn’t or when the boredom really sets in.
That's your own cultural bias/culturally tinted spectacles talking, not fact.
The kids in my wifes extended family, in and around Manila are all behaving themselves RE the lock down there.
Anyone else thinking Valance hasn’t really abandoned his “herd immunity” strategy. If they were serious about suppressing this they would be throwing the brakes on hard now.
Vallance isn't going to be remembered well by history.
my folks are currently in france with edukator in a locked down state. they(government) have gone for the big stick approach.
Anything I need to do just requires having an attestation stuffed in my pocket. Lovely weather, jogging and horse riding allowed, biking tolerated, foodstores open but DIY stores shut 🙂 , I can walk down the middle of my street from one end to the other with no risk of getting run over. I could get used to this. It might get a bit lonely though, and stressful in couples already struggling, how many coronavirus divorces?
I do feel sorry for people in the big cities without a garden.
Suspect their lacklustre responses is going to overwhelm the NHS by a fair margin in a couple of weeks, despite what they say.
What they say is it will overwhelm the NHS that’s been made clear, you have noticed they’re cancelling none urgent surgery from next month. They’re trying to contain the virus the best they can to a point when the NHS is in a better position. They’ve made that very clear.
Really has been zero point me distancing from others whilst my wife is working in a school, in contact with hundreds of kids,
Yes there is. The less people who have unnecessary contact the better, schools are necessary you riding with 10 friends isn’t. It’s that simple.