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nickc
Let me help you out. This is a spiritual war. I am a spiritual adviser of sorts.
cinnamon_girl
A wise choice. Tis a pity so many of our folk suddenly acquired faith in proven criminals, liars, psychos and paedophiles in government and industry. People and institutions they had been vehemently criticising pre-2019. Contacting one's MP is still holding that same naive faith - even if they wanted to help you they can't. Like all employees they must toe the line. And the fact the NHS isn't helping with jab injuries should tell people something.
The pandemic happened. Full stop. How we responded to it, politically, socially, and medically is a big area of debate. But that it happened is not.
Lol. You literally just implied that "the science is settled". Science by definition is never settled.
And the fact the NHS isn’t helping with jab injuries should tell people something.
This is nonsense. Are you suggesting people experiencing serious side effects from vaccination are denied access to NHS services?
Had you done your research you would have come to the same conclusion that the entire pandemic was a hoax. For after a certain point, coincidence upon coincidence becomes a mathematical impossibility.
That's some next level bullshit in my view.
There's people on here, people I work with and know in real life who lost family and friends, or have ongoing medical issues.
Your statement is disrespectful to that loss and harm
It's also unsubstantiated and unproven as a view.
And the fact the NHS isn’t helping with jab injuries should tell people something.
Oh just stop please.
As a Moderator I’m politely asking you to tone down your conspiracy nonsense on this thread.
That wasn't polite.
“The pandemic happened” - are you implying the fact the pandemic happened is not “settled” @veganrider ?
“The pandemic happened” – are you implying the fact the pandemic happened is not “settled” @veganrider ?
There was never a pandemic.
There was never a pandemic.
Do explain what happened over the last 2.5 years then. I'm intrigued as to how all these people died.
Jeez, don't feed the troll. Please.
They won’t be doing that Matt. They’re on a break now.
Good. Thank you mods.
Deleted
Vegan rider, troll off somewhere else you bore. You are offensive, misinformed and if I was being unkind I'd say stupidly (and dangerously) gullible.
Edit: cheers mods.
Let's hope it's a long, long break.
Back to the thread...anyone else thinking we're likely to see big jump in infections/hospitalisations/deaths this winter?
I've seen an increase in mask wearing recently but largely confined to the elderly.
Can't help but think the prevailing attitude is...been vaccinated so I'm ok.
Another thought...with the proposed opening of 'warm places' by councils and charities etc they could become potent venues for viral spread - even if they (attempt to) implement precautionary measures.
I’ve seen an increase in mask wearing recently but largely confined to the elderly.
I put mine back on when I was on London underground and a couple of crowded trains down/up last week.
i'm confused, is this ship now rudderless? where is any of the guidance coming from?
i work at an NHS Mental Health Trust, we are maskless in non-clinical areas (i.e anyweher not patient face to face) yet i took my lad for an appointment at Sheffield Childrens Hospital, no masks to be seen, not in waiting rooms, consultant appointments or up in xray, and there were very very poorly children knocking about, Grismby, new A&E, seen a nurse i know in the press shots, was like, no mask? and she says no one adheres to it anymore,
but this week, i've had a text from the GP saying face to face (it's been nearly 3 years since i saw a GP in person) is now masked again from this week
We are apparently learning to live with it.
Had different experiences of mask wearing in health care settings in recent weeks, some all masked, some not.
Noticeably more mask wearing out and about, but still a definite minority. I'll wear a mask anywhere I'm asked to, but not wearing them for myself now.
After the potential exposure to the virus I’ve put myself through this year, and not getting ill, I suspect that vaccination and an on-going exposure to low levels of the virus mean we’ve achieved herd immunity.
We had a small peak over October but it’s now dropping again. Deaths are following as per usual and unfortunately still rising, but it seems an unfathomably small peak. Isn’t Janaury the next marker for winter peaks after Christmas gatherings?
I’d love to know why - a boost in immunity, cv19 strains weakening, or maybe other ilness beating it into the background ( I had a 4 x negative chest infection / cough two weeks ago still with a tickly cough at times).
After the potential exposure to the virus I’ve put myself through this year, and not getting ill, I suspect that vaccination and an on-going exposure to low levels of the virus mean we’ve achieved herd immunity.
Herd immunity means that immunity is sufficiently high throughout a population to suppress case numbers almost entirely. Reaching herd immunity protects everyone, even the vulnerable/unvaccinated by stopping it from being able to spread from person to person and reach them. But all the evidence suggests that this virus is very good at adapting to continue spreading via new variants, and that vaccination is very good at stopping you from getting ill, it's not great at preventing transmission.
Even anecdotally on this thread, there are still plenty of people falling ill with this. Official sampling suggests that a couple of weeks ago, one in 30 or so in England had it during a single week.
Your experience is easily explained too - for an awful lot of people, thanks to vaccination/natural immunity, getting it now means no symptoms, or very minor symptoms which can be dismissed as something else. Which is great.
But it's not herd immunity, and there are still people who deserve our consideration because they're more vulnerable for various reasons.
I think the most recent week's data showed more than 400 deaths with Covid recorded as the principal cause. It's not quite done with us yet. And flu is shaping up to be a bigger problem this winter.
We had a small peak over October but it’s now dropping again. Deaths are following as per usual and unfortunately still rising, but it seems an unfathomably small peak. Isn’t Janaury the next marker for winter peaks after Christmas gatherings?
I’d love to know why – a boost in immunity, cv19 strains weakening, or maybe other ilness beating it into the background ( I had a 4 x negative chest infection / cough two weeks ago still with a tickly cough at times).
We shouldn't expect peaks like winter 2020/21 or 2021/22, though it's not impossible. We should expect things to get worse over winter, because respiratory viruses always get worse then, as people spend more time mixing indoors, Christmas etc. Combine that with vaccine waning over time, poorer uptake of the latest round of boosters, possible new variants (we've been very lucky with this over the past year), and we could have a more significant mortality spike. I personally think that the problem this winter will be that flu and Covid will team up, and the pressure on hospitals will cause excess mortality across the board as patients who need urgent hospital care for all sorts of issues don't get it.
Pieface, I don't believe we've achieved herd immunity - or are anywhere near it.
I'm neither an immunologist nor a virologist so...what do I know?
Would be interested in TiRed's view.
Partner and I got it last week for the first time. Fortunately recovery going well for both of us. Not entitled to boosters yet.
I personally think that the problem this winter will be that flu and Covid will team up, and the pressure on hospitals will cause excess mortality across the board as patients who need urgent hospital care for all sorts of issues don’t get it.
In the Australian 2022 winter we were expecting peaks of C19 and Flu that just didn't really materialise.
A snip from this fortnight's Australian Influenza Surveillance Report – 2022 Influenza Season in Australia - with caveats around interpreting flu cases during the Covid pandemic.
Activity
Influenza-like-illness (ILI) activity in the community is low after activity peaked in June 2022.
Nationally, notifications of laboratory-confirmed influenza have continued to decrease in the past fortnight and remain lower than average for this time of year compared to previous years.Severity
Clinical severity for the season to date, as measured through the proportion of patients admitted directly to ICU, and deaths attributed to influenza, is low.
Impact
The impact for the season to date, as measured through the rate of FluTracking respondents absent from normal duties and the number of sentinel hospital patients with influenza, is low to moderate.
At-risk populations
In 2022 to date, people aged 5–9 years, children aged younger than 5 years, and people aged 10–19 years have the highest notification rates.
Obviously northern hemisphere winter could be a perfect environment for new variant bingo.
Is anyone else still partaking in the ONS study? Last month's test results said I still had antibodies at a higher level, after 3 vaccines and a dose of the cov in January. Fingers crossed that keeps the wolf at bay.
It's harder than usual to predict how severe our flu season will be based on the Australian winter. I think the current UK trends show it starting to build slightly earlier than usual
page 14 of this:
Whether that translates to a bigger peak of serious illness this winter, who knows? I guess it's prudent to plan for a worse than average season, as flu was suppressed/displaced for the last couple of winters.
I don't know what the predominant strains are, and whether we've guessed them correctly for vaccine purposes (another post-pandemic problem). If we've got it wrong, that will mean more problems than in a 'good' year.
I came down with it on Thursday. Had one or two days where I was feeling pretty grim, but still able to work (from home). I have asthma, so it's always a worry, but apart from the cough for a day and coughing up blood on Friday morning, it's mainly just been brown sludge. The worst has been the heart palpitations and my resting heart rate going from 50 to 78. Tomorrow is my freedom day, but had to take the dogs out this afternoon, so chose a quiet route. All was well until I went up a steepish slope, my heart rate increased to 130 and bang, I was hit with a rather large additional heart beat that took a few seconds to get over. That was a tad worrying, hopefully that will settle down sharpish.
Just had the district nurse round to give the booster, unfortunately all they have is the original Pfizer Comirnaty Tozinameran/Riltozinameran mrna vaccine which only offers very limited protection against the new Omicron BA.4-5, apparently they only had approx 100 doses of the new modern vaccine to begin with - what is the ****ing point of handing out an original vaccine effective at providing protection against omicron BA.1 which has been surpassed by more recent variants to an immunosuppressed person with spms?.
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Really good series on radio 4 called Disaster Trolls, there’s a few people on here with some odd ideas about covid/vaccination that would have been ideal subjects for the program.
Well worth a listen (available online)
@somafunk - that is odd... I understand using 'old stock', but so much has changed since they were rolled out.
Perhaps @TiRed can suggest why 'old' vaccine is still being use.
I know it doesn't help you, but mrs_oab and all the family have had the shiny new latest vaccine - and they were all but pleading for people to actually attend sessions so that it was not wasted. Apparently they have a growing issue here with people booking but not turning up, and growing percentage of those eligible but not taking it up.
Just managed to book a booster for next Thursday and it's the Pfizer Omicon BA4-5.
This reflux thing - the people that have it was it recent? I had a "chest infection" 2 weeks ago that arrived with a pretty serious cough. I constantly tested negative for Covid. 2 weeks later I still have a scratchy throat and slight cough. My son has the same pattern.
Tues/Weds/Thurs this week I forgot my Asthma inhalers (Clenil, Salbutolmol) and although I was talking a lot at a trade show it got much worse and only calmed after getting back on the Clenil last night.
Old vaccine will provide a fast boost in the antibody titer, and this is polyclonal (targets multiple sites on the surface of the spike). Vaccine protection estimates for original vaccine against Omicron have been better than expected, and hence its use. In fact whether the bivalent (which I had before travelling to the US) is appreciably better is, I believe, still moot. Some of the MOST reactogenic points on the spike have changed (and BA.4.6 is resistant to AZ's Evusheld and reduced potency to sotrovimab and Lilly's betelovimab), bit other sites are still present - so something for some of the vaccine antibodies to grab hold of and neutralise.
I've had daily tests whilst in the US and back now and still negative after a relatively large F2F meeting.
Good to know, many thanks for your knowledge bombs throughout this thread tired
No Ill effects whatsoever from the vaccine booster yesterday, can’t even feel whereabouts I got the jab in my arm either which is nice. Just as well as I had to drive for 5hours tday to get 400iu of botox in my hamstrings and abductors so I can move a bit easier.
There's a bit more on bivalent vaccine testing that was released by Pfizer yesterday https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20221103006400/en/
Don't just read the headline, the results are specific by age
I’ve had daily tests whilst in the US and back now and still negative after a relatively large F2F meeting.
Not so lucky here. Managed to avoid COVID for almost 3 yrs, on a trip to the US and I think picked up an infection at Heathrow, which went postive on a LFT day 3 of our hols.
This thing is not nice, two days in bed, but up and about today. The 'living with COVID' rules seem to say I'm good to go out after 5 days. Not sure yet how to approach the flight home - no testing required, US rules seem pretty relaxed. Travel insurance only kicks in if we have a documented refusal to let us on the flight. Just wanting to do the right thing doesn't seem to be covered.
Wife and I both came down with it 2 weeks ago today. First 3 or 4 days was pretty crap, coughing, fevers etc, but the main symptoms passed pretty quickly. It was her 2nd time with it, my first.
Then another 4 or 5 days of real tiredness, and a relic cough, both of which have only lifted past few days. Exercise has been regular daily shortish dog walks, and not even had a desire to ride a bike ! Did an easy Zwift session earlier and feeling ok, so hopefully the corner is turned 🤞
Timba - I would imagine the 55+ were starting from a lower level before boosting.
I've somehow managed to finally get it (I think I caught it skiing late Feb 2020 but obviously didn't test). Had an annoying cold for a week, flu jab on Weds and felt worse since then. I tested yesterday and am +ve, +ve today too. I don't feel too bad really so I'm lucky
Booster jab was booked for this week but cancelled it earlier. Am I supposed to wait until I test -ve before re-booking in 4 weeks time?
^^ when I called they rebooked me for 4 weeks from the date I tested positive
Thanks @ iainc
Nearly six weeks now since things started out with an innocent looking sore throat on day2 of vacation that got really sore, out of curiousity did a test when we got home and instant positive. Thought I was going to be ok to return to work, but then the exhaustion while doing nothing plus "alien growing in my chest" and sore lower ribs started along with general flu-like symptoms and has been at a very similar level for weeks. Once again, carrying today's four food delivery trays upstairs, unpacking and taking empties down one flight of stairs left me breathless. Still hoping this is simply a more extreme version of what I went through in April and May '20 after Covid.
Thankfully my better half didn't have a relapse of her serious breathing issues, but she could feel it on top of her long Covid for ~4 weeks.
What I don't understand is how despite booster vaccinations having now been reduced to a trickle, only 17,141 booster jabs in the whole of England in the last 7 seven days ffs, more cold wet weather, more people indoors, less vitamin D, despite all that, covid cases have been falling significantly in England for the last month.
Also less hospital admission and less deaths within 28 days of positive tests.
What's all that about?
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/
Repeated infection/vaccination giving broad cross protection against severe illness for multiple strains? 🤞🏻🤞🏻
What I don’t understand is how despite booster vaccinations having now been reduced to a trickle, only 17,141 booster jabs in the whole of England in the last 7 seven days ffs, more cold wet weather, more people indoors, less vitamin D, despite all that, covid cases have been falling significantly in England for the last month.
Loads of variables. We are currently in the trough between waves, October was actually relatively mild etc...
11.5 million people have now received their autumn booster. I think the number eligible for one was 26 million. So that's not massive uptake compared to previous campaigns, but not insignificant either, and hopefully will disproportionately cover those at the highest risk of severe illness.
Previous jabs were given late spring, so you'd expect the protection from these not have waned horribly now. This might change in Jan/Feb/March among those who did not receive the autumn booster. Plus repeated infection as above.