But a spread of vaccination, Delta & Omicron infection gives you a very wide spread of antibodies & T Cells.
However, as that Czech singer ^^^^^ showed, aiming for infection isn’t a smart play.
My other half is ill and has positive LFTs again. Primary school teacher, so catching it is pretty much unavoidable in this part of the country right now.
Interesting stuff on the trials dantsw13 & TiRed, thanks.
Ping. +ve PCR here (but a week of -ve LFTs) - caught from my primary school girls who have had +ve LFTs but completely asymptomatic for the past week. They're rocking about 50% positives in the oldest's (Year 2) class. (SW London, FWIW)
Didn’t it have an ‘unless exempt’ get out
I'll be honest I didn't look that closely as they have a history of telling me the wrong thing so I just make an effort to know the rules and apply them, I expect many people do not!
Paton, comorbidities are very much a thing, yes. And it’s not “something people don’t tell you”, the media have covered it well at different points of the pandemic, and it’s been discussed in this forum often. The whole “only those with pre-existing condition are at serious risk of death” thing has always been the case… the fact we can get to 150,000+ deaths, even with the measures we’ve taken and the vaccines and treatments we have, should be a reminder of just how many people are in the “pre-existing condition” bracket. My mum is, my other half is, one of my children is… lots of people we all know are. Our responses to the pandemic have never been driven by the idea that everyone is at risk of dying from it, we’ve always known that most of us are incredibly unlikely to have met that end, even in the earliest days of the pandemic. This has always been, for most of us, about protecting those who are at risk, not ourselves.
If you’re going to post a video at least give your option on them too, otherwise it’s just clickbait.
Anyway, from day one of the pandemic it’s been made clear that the vulnerable, elderly, chronic cardiac problems, COPD, transplant patient and other conditions are much more at risk from Covid 19. As they are from many viruses. It’s not being hidden by the media, it’s been there since day one. This report has also been on the news about how the number of those who are vulnerable far outweigh the deaths of those without out a precondition. Again it’s not a shock, revelation or manipulation of figures. The fact is if they hadn’t caught covid it’s highly likely they’d still be alive. It’s exactly the risk such people are at risk of from the likes of the flu.
I’ll be honest I didn’t look that closely as they have a history of telling me the wrong thing so I just make an effort to know the rules and apply them
So are you isolating for 10 days then?
Heres the link to the information discussed in the video above. 17371 people. Vast majority of those are over 65 and if you Google the average age of people who died as a whole during the pandemic, whilst still very tragic, they were in their 80's.
Pre-existed conditions is the key, I’m not going to even go anyways near “Oh they were 80”.
I was diagnosed with hypertension in November, I also have a liver and kidney condition none of which actually effect my daily life and I’m still reasonably fit despite not exercising much of late. If I was to catch and die with covid it would go down as having a pre-existing condition. The 17371 is for those without a diagnosed pre-existing condition.
I mean even a fractured femur goes down as pre-existing condition.
Yes exactly. The 17371 is people who died only from coronavirus. The difference between dying "with" and "of" coronavirus is what is going to be greatly disputed over the coming months and years. A great many deaths will occur because of the control measures put in to place to stem this pandemic. By that I mean those who die through famine because crops will have failed, those who lost their jobs and homes, those who couldn't get the medical treatment they required because money was spent elsewhere. Like the £42 million spent on converting the SECC to a Covid hospital here in Glasgow and it never saw even one patient.
You’re clearly missing what it actually means. I’ve even tried to explain it to you with an example of me, I’ve hypertension it will be recorded as a pre-existing condition. If I die of covid I go into the the pre-existing condition figures.
The difference between dying “with” and “of” coronavirus is what is going to be greatly disputed over the coming months and years
Only by those who haven't really been paying attention. There are basically three ways of doing the count. Their results are not millions of miles apart. 'Excess deaths' is probably the most pertinent in my opinion. Lots of people were still being diagnosed with cancer and having heart attacks and they were being treated. If we hadn't locked down when we did a lot of those who were being urgently treated wouldn't have got that care as the hospitals would have been rammed. Lots more would have died.
It's been a shit show - no denying that, but if Johnson had actually listened to scientists a bit more a bit sooner he would have locked down earlier, we could have come out earlier, a lot less people would have died, and it would have cost us less to boot.
Like the £42 million spent on converting the SECC to a Covid hospital here in Glasgow and it never saw even one COVID patient.
FTFY. It was used to take the load off other facilities.
Round it round it goes and every single time the anti-lockdownists arguments come down to “I was alright so lockdowns were dumb”
Any fool can analyse events after and pick holes in.
None of them were able to come up with a Quotient educated convincing plan when it mattered.
By all means note down the learnings and we can take them to the next them next time but their Youtube rants do nothing but stir up division.
I will bet my bottom dollar had the death toll been ten times what it is the same commentators would be saying enough wasn't done.
Welcome As Dave Gorman called it - the bottom of the internet.
Oh and @drac that's how Paton works I'm convinced he is a YouTube link bot - I certainly just scroll past his incessant linking now.
So are you isolating for 10 days then?
Nope
Average age of people to have died with coronavirus. This isn't any "Fool" as it has been put, this is ONS data.
The vast majority were already really old and had pre-existing conditions. I work with a guy who's wife works in a nursing home. They were being told that patients were dying from coronavirus and this was what was being put on their death certificate yet the individual in question had clearly and obviously been hammered and was on their way out due to something else. This happened numerous times, not just once or twice. Manipulation of figures. You can argue about individual circumstances and call me whatever you want. As a whole, the situation was greatly over-exagerrated and figures were manipulated. End of.
Average age of people to have died with coronavirus.
Elderly more prone to dying shocker.
The vast majority were already really old and had pre-existing conditions. I work with a guy who’s wife works in a nursing home.
Well there we go you know someone who knows someone who says something. That’s damning evidence then.
But old people die every year, and throughout the pandemic 150,000 MORE people than would otherwise be expected to died in the U.K.
Hospitals have been overrun. Doctors and nurses (fit & healthy) have died from it.
The vast majority were already really old and had pre-existing conditions. I work with a guy who’s wife works in a nursing home.
Almost all "old" people have pre existing conditions
Hold the front page… it’s mostly the elderly and those with pre-existing conditions at risk from dying when they catch Coronavirus… why has no one pointed this out before?!? Still, this has prompted me to ring my mum this afternoon… I won’t tell her that she’s a disposable human, but I will consider that I’m lucky to be able to ring her.
Whilst that FOI data is interesting, the detail is not in the mean. Are you familiar with Anscombe's quartet - I'd guess not. Two sets of data can have the same mean (and same variance), but the distributions might look very different. COVID19 is a disease that exacerbates the morbidity and mortality of other diseases. If you have diabetes or are obese, and you catch COVID19, then your life expectancy will be reduced. And if you die, you will be recorded as COVID19 pneumonia with a new ICD class 100. Previously if dying from pneumonia, other codes would have been recorded (99 is influenza, for example).
The distribution (rather than the mean and median) of deaths is not reported in that FOI. But the fact is, in April 2020, twice as many people were dying per week as would historically die. That was in every age group apart from children, and I posted the data here at the time. You can't ignore those kinds of numbers and the Government did not. Given the time from first emergence, it was not an epidemic of cancer, strokes or heart attacks either. Now we are heading to endemicity, with vaccines and treatments, do not be surprised that the means and medians are coming back together and other factors such as under diagnosed cancers, may come to play. You have to adjust for confounding factors, which that simple table does not do.
Things are always more complex that the headline and such simple statements normally obfuscate.
TiRed's just posted exactly what i was going to post. You can have exactly the same average but 2x, 3x or 4x the population. The fact that the average person dying of / with Covid is 81 years old or whatever, tells you nothing in isolation.
[edit - he said it way better, as always]
A great many deaths will occur because of the control measures put in to place to stem this pandemic
Of or with?
if you Google the average age of people who died as a whole during the pandemic, whilst still very tragic, they were in their 80’s.
If you reach 80 years of age you are likely to reach 90. Data shows the average years of life remaining for Covid related deaths was 10 years - 10 years of working, spending in the economy, paying taxes. Even people in care homes do the last two. 175,000 deaths so that's 1,750,000 economically active years lost.
A great many deaths will occur because of the control measures put in to place to stem this pandemic
Of course. But I'm waiting for someone to quantify it for me so I can compare it to the 175,000 people with Covid on their death certificate.
Lots of people trying to get their two cents in I see. Some with helpful information, others just trying to be sarcastic.
The point I was trying to make was that the media have, for the large part, not mentioned hee haw about the vast majority of people who having died from Covid having had underlying conditions. It's been pushed that everyone is at risk. That it's a Covid death whereas Covid may have pushed that person over the edge, they were 90-95% of the way there on a lot of counts already.
As for my so-called damning evidence.....does this mean I am lying? Are you calling the gentleman that I work with or his wife liars? Why do you not believe this to be true? You may not know him but I do and he is a very trustworthy source.
And why wouldn't I have heard of Anscombes Quartet? Do you believe yourself to be superior?
If you reach 80 you're likely to reach 90??? I think the average age of people that die in Scotland is 84 so that's absolute tosh.
Does anyone know why they're trying to push the vaccine for kids to get it? Have a listen to RFK Jr and see what he says.
https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMLRkhHhs/
Of or with?
: Applause:
Did anyone see the Mark Sharman interview before it was pulled from the web where he said that Mainstream Media is refusing to print or show vaccine horror stories because they wish to write their own narrative to this crisis?
I did. Quite scary.
If you reach 80 you’re likely to reach 90???
Pretty much (that do your own research thang is great innit);
“In 2020, life expectancy at age 80 years for United Kingdom was 9.09 years. Life expectancy at age 80 years of United Kingdom increased from 6.52 years in 1975 to 9.09 years in 2020 growing at an average annual rate of 3.78%.”
https://knoema.com/atlas/United-Kingdom/topics/Demographics/Age/Life-expectancy-at-age-80-years
Almost all “old” people have pre existing conditions
What do you call "old"? I'm 66, which in covid terms means I'm nominally vulnerable. I don't have any pre-existng conditions I'm aware of, nor did my friend of the same age who caught it in the first wave and died. I agree it would be useful to know whether >65 is a vulnerability in itself or whether it implies other conditions, but over-simplifying doesn't help.
If you reach 80 you’re likely to reach 90??? I think the average age of people that die in Scotland is 84 so that’s absolute tosh.
That's the fallacy with averages. It only needs 2 people to illustrate the flaw in your criticism - one dies when they're 80, and the other survives until they're 90, as per the hypothesis. The average is 85.
In that FOI data, the median is significantly lower than the mean. That means there must be quite a long tail on the lower side of the distribution, ie, younger people dying but in smaller numbers.
not mentioned hee haw about the vast majority of people who having died from Covid having had underlying conditions
Yes they have. And discussed many times over the years in this thread. Have a look. You’ll also find discussion of your other points happening as well, over and over again.
Mainstream Media is refusing to print or show vaccine horror stories
That’s not true either. Deaths connected with vaccinations (rare and dreadful that they are) were covered on all the media. As were any indications of serious side effects. There is no cover up. There is no conspiracy. If you seek out people who say otherwise, then of course you will find them.
Did anyone see the Mark Sharman interview before it was pulled from the web where he said that Mainstream Media is refusing to print or show vaccine horror stories because they wish to write their own narrative to this crisis?
I did. Quite scary.
MSM has been paid by the Government to promote a narrative. They're all in lockstep.
MSM all around the world? Paid by all the governments of the world? To what ends?
MSM has been paid by the Government to promote a narrative. They’re all in lockstep
To achieve what, exactly? Genuinely interested in where the benefit is with that
Which media are you suggesting are not talking about pre existing conditions when reporting the numbers .....
The two main sources I use both state it every time numbers are mentioned.
MSM all around the world? Paid by all the governments of the world? To what ends?
Its a new fangled never done before thing called “public health information campaigns”
MSM has been paid by the Government to promote a narrative. They’re all in lockstep.
This'll be good..........
What’s that then, malware?
And why wouldn’t I have heard of Anscombes Quartet? Do you believe yourself to be superior?
Not at all, but you made a point about two means and two medians being the same now without recourse to the relevant distributions. That suggests a statistical naïveté. What does the left hand tail of the distribution look like? What is the proportion of 50-65’s? One of my friends was in that group. Sadly he won’t make it to the next.
Life expectancy in that age group fell due to covid. You may not have any, but comorbidities (and being overweight is one), are surprisingly common.
This’ll be good……….
Nooooooooooo… I don’t think I can take more crazy.
Does anyone know who Dr Robert Malone is? Before everyone else jumps in here try having a look at some of his videos and interviews. He invented RNA technology. Have a look at what he says it will do to your kids and then think why it's being pushed on to our kids?
https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMLRkUAef/
Also have a look at some of Dr Mike Yeadon's videos/interviews.
These are qualified individuals who reached the absolute pinnacle of their field. Watch them because if you are pro vaccine and pro -covid you have to be willing to look at both sides of the discussion, especially when credible distinguished people like these are speaking up. In order to be an informed individual, which some of you certainly seem as if you want to be, then you have to be informed. Don't just accept what's on the BBC, ITV and Sky News as gospel. There are mass protests across the world. Isn't it worth checking? I've watched, for two years, both sides of the story. My take is there's bullshit coming thick and fast from both sides but there's also truth in there worth investigating. Mike Yeadon, Robert Malone and Mark Sharman are worth paying more attention to.
If you're government can lie to you about some things, what else can they lie to you about.
So the regulatory agencies around the world are all working to cover up a large number of sae events?
I seriously doubt that as it would undermine the trust in the whole healthcare system.
Plus there would be an awful lot of people being silenced within industry as there are whole groups within companies dedicated to patient safety and then further groups dedicated to checking that those groups are working within the rules.
But then if you don't trust the reporting systems then i would suggest you ensure you grow your own food and never ever take a medicine as clearly the regulatory agencies can't be trusted.
Plus Robert Malone was not the 'inventor' of mRNA technology, yes he was one of the early researchers involved in the work, but the whole thing behind it being functional as a vaccine is the packaging, and as for the claim that it is dangerous because it induces the body to make spike protein..... well yes that is exactly the way vaccines work, either mRNA or traditional
Dr Robert Malone is
Yes - a loon who makes easily disproved statements. comprehensively debunked earlier in this thread
If its a huge conspiracy what is the aim of it?