I still can’t get my head around the mixed messaging from tonight’s presser
It's interesting that a lot of the press are running with the warnings from Whitty, with Boris' being the sub headline.
I did wonder if that Mail headline was carefully on the fence - you either think Boris is saving Christmas, or you think he's an idiot for arguing with the scientists. Given how they've been after him for the last few months,could be the latter.
On the plus side we’ll all have had it by the end of March! Problem solved
Rolls eyes. It doesn't work that way. Plenty of people have had Covid more than once.
Fatigue
Night sweats
Scratchy throat
Dry cough
Mild muscle aches
That's me every damn day due to work. Except for the cough.
I had headache, fatigue, loss of taste and smell and then chest pain and breathing difficulties with high resting HR and cytokine release syndrome. I was moderate not severe. Loss of smell, dry cough and fatigue are strong predictors. In 2020 everyone was looking for headache, cough and temperature. Two of those are generic immune reactions.
And yes you may have caught it. Or Delta which was much more common but is now in decline in London.
France have closed border to U.K. travellers. son2 is home from Spain next week. I hope they let him back for his exams. He is a Spanish Resident. And that’s enough for France.
Fatigue
Night sweats
Scratchy throat
Dry cough
Mild muscle aches
This is me pretty much every winter since I was a kid. Asthma and to much exercise mean winter is a constant state of illness for me.
I know a good few people in hospitality who are not happy at all. No issue with bringing measures and/or closures in if needed, more the vague, grey area of telling people not to mix but also not offered any support to the places that people mix in. I think they have a very fair point.
Reading back through the last half dozen pages, the folks castigating people for not being inoculated and therefore not protecting the community and limiting the spread in one breath then saying they will see as many people as they want at Christmas despite any guidance or imposed rules in the next breath is hypocrisy at its finest.
Didn’t they run a “Boris battles the Boffins” headline this time last year?
and there was a "Boris saves Christmas" a few days ago, wasn't there?
It's like groundhog year.
the folks castigating people for not being inoculated and therefore not protecting the community and limiting the spread in one breath then saying they will see as many people as they want at Christmas despite any guidance or imposed rules in the next breath
Can you provide an example for that statement? Most on here who are regular posters are pretty thick skinned by now so doubt you'll upset anyone too much.
And yes you may have caught it.
It is perhaps wishful thinking! Having only just been through it
the folks castigating people
If people choosing not to get inoculated contributes to filling up hospitals, and then to people not being able to see their elderly relatives as we move to reduce transmission... my sympathy is with everyone who might get caught up in that... those in hospital (whatever vaccinations they have or haven't received), those working in the NHS, the elderly, their families, those going back into shielding again... everyone. My sympathy for people spreading anti-vax nonsense on the internet is very limited these days though I'm afraid. Those getting exasperated and angry and ranty about it don't surprise me.
Why is it that when it comes to new variant spread, the uk is literally world beating? Sure we have big cities, but so do many many others. Yet it always appears that we pretty much lead the way with regard to waves of infection
Actually a few of the regulars on here have said they'd be seeing relatives this Christmas regardless of restrictions, I've commented on it a couple of times.
I'm surprised that people have said it on a public forum, though I totally understand that point of view.
As it stands, seeing a few close relatives doesn't break any rule or even guidance. Not getting jabbed does breach guidance. I'm not convinced there's an equivalence here. If the guidance gets tightened, there might be more of a moral maze.
Anyway, daughter is a week out of isolation and got her sense of smell back. Tonight she's helping at the Rainbows Christmas party, before attending get Rangers Christmas party, then doing a gymnastics show tomorrow night and two on Saturday.
MrsMC is going to a Guide leaders meal in a pub tonight, and although the venue is great with distancing and ventilation etc, and I trust the others to take LFTs, I really wish she wasn't. I didn't ask Santa for Covid for Christmas.
Why is it that when it comes to new variant spread, the uk is literally world beating? Sure we have big cities, but so do many many others. Yet it always appears that we pretty much lead the way with regard to waves of infection
Boris
population density & the fact UK folk are relatively very multicultural & well-traveled plus popular for business & tourist travel, would be my guess. Not really surprising at all tbh.Why is it that when it comes to new variant spread, the uk is literally world beating?
genuinely, because despite the clowncircus in charge, the on the ground testing and typing of variants is world class.
Test more, find more.
Variant characterise more, you'll find the new variants more often and sooner.
Population density, virtually zero restrictions, plus a lot of testing.
Also... we puff our chests out about our world beating vaccination programme, but the number of unvaccinated people in London us ________ huge... probably 3 million people. Hugely interconnected city (both with other countries and across the city) with minimal measures in place to prevent introduction of new variants from aboard or to reduce transmission, with a third of the population unvaccinated. There should be no suprise.
As it stands, seeing a few close relatives doesn’t break any rule or even guidance. Not getting jabbed does breach guidance.
As discussed before though guidance is not law. Wearing masks in shops etc is now law, working from home and the booster; guidance.
What some people on here have said though is they would be willing to break the law if the law was as it was last year in respect of gatherings (Tory parties excepted of course - they can do what they want).
So choosing not to have the booster, as things stand, would not be an offence (although some may find it offensive) whereas 'having Christmas' might be. All hypothetical of course as I cannot see Christmas gatherings being outlawed regardless of the fact that we should be in full lockdown right now however it is still an important distinction.
Actually a few of the regulars on here have said they’d be seeing relatives this Christmas regardless of restrictions, I’ve commented on it a couple of times.
That's not really the same as "seeing as many people as possible"
Or maybe that's how it was viewed by the poster I responded too, which is why I was asking for an example as it helps me gauge how they're perceiving it.
And then theres the question of whether that example is also actually berating those not taking vaccines as well as the above.
Anyway, we've postponed the family Christmas, kinda pencilled in for the end of January, but that'll only happen if the current wave is not as bad as some fear.
@mjsmke More coffee for you before joining first thing, see fake html tag after the comment!
Also SandwichJr mentioned further up has had the COVIDS twice this year alone.
I'm aware but sometimes a bit of levity helps me cope with the ongoing bit of a mess. My apologies that I may have offended you.
Why is it that when it comes to new variant spread, the uk is literally world beating?
Founder effect. We are earlier than Europe. We also have fewer restrictions, but I imagine these will be tightened.
Rate not absolute numbers of cases is what matters. Omicron is doubling about twice as fast as delta. Probably as a result of more mixing than in May and vaccine protection being halved (or possibly more). Both of these factors are amenable to intervention. The latter is active now.
#just venting
"It's just a cough I haven't got covid"
How the **** do you know, prick.
Not the right meaning. "Founder effect" wanders off grumbling ....
#just venting
On that..
I’ve heard it more than once. “If I don’t test, I don’t know I’ve got it. So I’m not testing”
WTF!?
Piemonster
As MTCD has said there are a number who have. A couple of examples are below. I'm not going to trawl through and find them all.
Larry_Lamb
Christmas will be going ahead for us Bojo, boosters have been had for everyone.
airvent
I’m not missing another Christmas with my grandparents regardless of what may be brought in, I don’t know if they’ll make it to Christmas 2022.
Nobeerinthefridge
@airvent I hear ya buddy.
Kelvin
We feel lucky that the kids got to see all three grandparents for a week in the summer. That’s it for two years though. There is no chance that they won’t be seeing them this Christmas
Fossy
Well, as a family we’ve decided were still going ahead with Xmas day what ever he says – 5 households.
Personally I'm not going to get angry and abusive if people get vaccinated or not or if people break guidance on visiting/entertaining family and friends over Christmas. Just pointing out that people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
There is no chance that they won’t be seeing them this Christmas
I stand by that. I’m not seeing anyone except my family from yesterday ‘till after New Year. Not even going in a shop. I’m not expecting any law or guidance to be introduced between now and Christmas that clashes with my plans. If Johnson goes for “we’re not cancelling any parties” on the run up to Xmas, and then legally seeks to prevent more than 3 people meeting up on Xmas day, he’ll be in a resigning position.
There is no guidance which suggests not mixing with family on Christmas Day etc. The closest to guidance we have is Whitty recommending that we think hard about prioritising the mixing that really matters to us (which for many is family at Christmas), over other contacts which aren't as important.
Steering clear of pubs/restaurants and parties so you can see your folks at Christmas is already going considerably further than the official line from ministers, and doesn't really disqualify you from having an opinion about vaccination.
Personally I couldn't give a monkeys about Christmas, I've my first family holiday booked in 2yrs (thanks to Covid), all be it a wet, rainy UK one - but it's a brake from work. I just hope that can still still go ahead at the end of Dec, without any issues.
Not the right meaning. “Founder effect”
Ok, not in true genetic sense. An earlier introduction coupled with exponential growth and enhanced fitness leads to an expansion and manifests in a delay for later introductions elsewhere. It also squeezes out other genetic variation by nature of its enhanced fitness. We’re not talking about alpha any more. Soon we may not be talking about delta.
Most of those example dont tally with seeing as many people as possible, apart from the 5 households one.
That may just be a question of perception.
France is blockading the channel with gun boats.
Ok, it's not really but couldn't resist a daily mail-esque headline. They are basically stopping all not essential travel to there from the UK. Can't blame them, trying to buy a little extra time no doubt.
Feels a little 28 days/ weeks Later. 😁
Plague colony UK.
Ok, not in true genetic sense
😆
Don't worry I'm just being grumpy...I knew what you meant. Shame co workers can't understand what a persistent cough is!
Not sure why France is blocking travel from the UK - their figures are broadly similar in terms of new infections so I can't see how it is going to have a significant impact either way.
I didn't say "seeing as many people as possible". I said "seeing as many people as they like". That could be any number.
The point is, those listed have made it clear, regardless of what the restrictions/law/guidance that might or might not be imposed over Christmas, they will do as they please regardless of the consequences.
It is literally the same "me, me, me" attitude that is levelled at the anti-vaxxers.
Not sure why France is blocking travel from the UK
Because they can and it will play well at home for minimal impact. Joys of Brexit, looks like the French have taken control of their borders.
The point is, those listed have made it clear, regardless of what the restrictions/law/guidance that might or might not be imposed over Christmas, they will do as they please regardless of the consequences.
There will be no law that stops small family gatherings on Xmas day. It isn’t happening. I do have everything in the freezer (apart for Turkey, we’ll go veggie if it comes to it) ready for the very unlikely circumstance that Johnson does go down that path. If he does though, he’s toast, as his decision making will be considered disastrous by absolutely everyone. The older Conservative voters in particular will be spitting feathers if they have another Xmas without seeing family because Johnson was too scared to act sooner (apart from the odd one who be angry because they consider him out of order for acting at all).
He's toast anyway and he knows it - that press conference yesterday proved that.
The gov currently has no credibility, they can't bring in restrictions because they know that they won't be adhered to. They can't restrict buisness because we can't afford too support isolation anymore.
Witty can advise as much as he wants, but the general population won't listen without legislation. Boris can't legislate any harder because he lost the confidence of the public and his own benches. It was a gradual slippery slope from the Barnard Castle days but inevitable - the most unfortunate thing is it will cause huge strain on the NHS and by proxy deaths (not just of Covid).
Im currently weighing up isolating from my family for the next week or so (just until Christmas when I can shut my shop for a couple of weeks) as infection rates reach 32x where they currently are....
Oh, I agree it is highly unlikely Kelvin but if he does make not mixing households guidance (same as getting a vaccine is only guidance) are you cancelling your Christmas plans?
If not then abusing people for not getting vaccines is hypocrisy.
No, in that hypothetical situation, where it is just guidance, I won't be cancelling my xmas plans (I have already reduced them though). But I'll also have not have been in contact with anyone outside that group for over a week. I'm acting now to reduce my contacts. I had already planned to do that... but as it happens Whitty is now suggesting that is what we should all do.
Oh, I also wouldn't meet up for a family xmas if any of my family weren't vaccinated, or said they were turning down boosters for vague reasons. If you think that's hypocritical in some way... you are entitled to that opinion.
So you're only willing to follow the guidance you agree with and ignore guidance you don't agree with. Thanks for clarifying that.
Edit - Just to note, I don't disagree in any way with what you are planning for your Christmas.
My only point is that each of us assesses risk differently (and there is always an element of selfishness in that assessment) so there is no right to shout names at people for having a different level of risk aversion unless you (not you personally Kelvin) are willing to follow all the guidance to the letter with zero deviation.
My kids are seeing their grandparents this xmas. We've made sure we will have no contact with anyone ahead of the meet up... and they were boosted sometime ago... and we'll all have had several tests. So yes, whatever the guidance, they will see them (for only the third time in two years) if we're all still producing negative tests. If it's law that there is no household mixing at all, then it's all off. But it won't be. At the most it'll be no more than two households mixing over xmas, or similar bubbling.
So you’re only willing to follow the guidance you agree with and ignore guidance you don’t agree with. Thanks for clarifying that.
Seems to sum it up well tbf!
So you’re only willing to follow the guidance you agree with and ignore guidance you don’t agree with. Thanks for clarifying that.
Which is precisely what I am doing and got called a selfish **** 😀
Glad schools finish tomorrow. We will be isolating to an extent until Xmas now
Which is precisely what I am doing
I'm more worried about you getting ill yourself if you avoid the booster. Ignore the "selfish" comments, and go and talk to your clinic for your pre-existing condition about what is best for *you*. Please. Ignore any mud slinging, and look after yourself, and your family.
This restaurant has the right idea (from reddit)
