Boris desperately trying to avoid being associated with a potentially unpopular change to mask policy by not saying exactly what it is until a journo asks him directly. 🙂
As I understood it Johnson said that Javid will announce in the next day or two rules concerning face coverings in retail and on public transport.
I think it is fair to assume that it will become obligatory.
Yeah, only after prompting during the Q&A, then tried to pass the buck along to Javid rather than take the opportunity to actually encourage the public to follow any rules.
I think it is fair to assume that it will become obligatory.
No assuming required
Johnson said different variants required different approaches but we did not know enough yet about the new variant.
Overall the UK "continues to be in a far stronger position" than many other countries, he insisted.
He added that he was "absolutely confident this Christmas will be better than last".
Well, that's Christmas screwed then.
Three weeks from Monday is 20 December. Boris clearly hoping that he can ease things off then for Christmas. I suspect the mandatory face coverings on public transport will be here for longer than three weeks, if they’re bringing it back in you may as well keep it until spring.
I have a bit of a Man Crush on Chris Whitty, loved his comment about how he didn't recognise some of the headlines attributed to him this morning, but obviously wouldn't happen with any of the journos in the briefing.....
duir - the scientists are stressing the importance now of having both vaccinations and in particular a booster. One cannot rely on the antibodies built up from the Delta variant.
Do we need to be worried about Omicron?
I spent three and a half hours on a bike today. I’ll look at the south Africa data later. I’d I was really worried, I’d have looked at the data first. The initial burst of delta was rapid in some countries and decelerated. I would not be surprised to see the same.
I am concerned more about the delta plus that is pushing delta aside in U.K. and Europe. It’s not a given that omicron can displace these variants, that are already fitter than alpha and fitter than delta.
Looking at the mutations, one expects that the antibodies used for treatment at their therapeutic doses should still offer benefit. That’s encouraging because these are some of the more potent parts of the general polyclonal vaccine antibody spectrum.
And Pfizer’s protease will be along soon. I haven’t checked the non spike mutations against resistance, but that is likely to not be an issue as protease selection pressure will be treatment emergent, not immune selected.
(Tl:dr) I’m worried about the spread in Europe of delta plus.
I’m surprised that the flights to Amsterdam haven’t been discussed more. Two flights where the passengers were presumably subject to some pre-screening and 10% tested positive upon arrival in the Netherlands.
10% tested positive upon arrival in the Netherlands.
The thing I found really alarming about this was that transit passengers who tested negative were allowed to continue to their destinations. So they've just spent 8 hours in a plane with loads of infected people, but it's too early for a test to show if they caught it on the plane. It's like deliberate super spreading.
Is there any news on when the latest PCR requirements kick in? My wife's currently on a weekend away in Portugal, could do with knowing if she's able to go to work when she returns..
I got the impression it was immediate
Trying to work out what this means for my family. Fly back in on Dec 23rd. Looks like we will be self isolating over Xmas awaiting results after a home kit PCR, rather than spending it with relatives?
I am completely unvaccinated and had Covid in April 2020. I had a government test which showed anti-bodies last year and again 20 months later.
Interestingly I tested positive for it again 3 weeks ago, I felt a bit rubbish for 3 days then right as rain.
I would not worry yourself about waiting for a booster.
I had it last Christmas
Completely unvaccinated, not worn a mask since the first (promised, then withdrawn) freedom day of June 21st, not social distanced, been to busy pubs in numerous towns, supermarkets, Strensham sevice station many times (working nearby), been on the Kop at Bramall Lane, been surrounded by people who have since been ill with it. Stupid, lucky or natural resistance, I'm not sure
I think you need to isolate till you get the PCR result back mate. So unfortunately you are probably correct.
Edit, CBA’ed
Burnam's tweet about mask compliance is hard to argue with. The relaxing of rules are going to make it much harder to get compliance up again.
Oh, anyone know the prevalence of Delta Plus in southern Africa?
Or asymptomatic spreader?
I very much doubt it - the people I know that have had it, you can follow a trail back, the people I've been closest to haven't had it. We await Mrs STR's results, but also highly unlikely that I have anything to do with that, would be my sister who had a similar illness.
When I first got it, I and others quite easily traced the chain of events
Trying to work out what this means for my family. Fly back in on Dec 23rd.
depends. Are you called Stanley?
not worn a mask since the first (promised, then withdrawn) freedom day of June 21st,
Edit, CBA’ed
I know what you mean mate. After a recent ban I have to be careful about saying what I think.
At least one member of SAGE isn't happy about the limited imposition of new measures.
Interestingly though, she is a health psychologist but is commenting on the level of new measures rather than her speciality? Perhaps she is voicing more general concerns within SAGE?
EDIT: Just got some more masks in before the price hikes!lol
The policy changes won’t ever get 100% compliance. There will always be those who wear their resistance and non-compliance as a badge of honour. See above. See Boris and the hospital/train etc etc.
but if you can change most peoples minds, it’ll make a difference.
the ones who have really confused me are the half-wearers over the last couple of months. Have some conviction..
Here's the new measures in full of its helpful to anyone.
All travellers entering the UK will now have to take a PCR test within two days of entering the country and will have to self-isolate until a negative test is returned.
All those who have been in contact with a person who tests positive for the Omicron variant will have to self-isolate regardless of whether or not they have been vaccinated.
Face coverings will once again become compulsory in shops and on public transport in England. In Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland they are still mandatory on public transport and many indoor areas.
Hospitality will be exempt from the rule change on face coverings.
The JCVI will explore how the booster programme can be extended, including looking at closing the time gap between the second dose and the booster.
Ten countries are now on the UK's travel red list meaning, from Sunday at 04:00 GMT, all arrivals will have to quarantine in a hotel for 10 days. They are South Africa, Namibia, Zimbabwe, Botswana, Lesotho, Eswatini, Angola, Mozambique, Malawi and Zambia.
So we can sit in a sweaty pub / club / restaurant for hours maskless but can't nip into a shop for a pint of milk without one. When does this kick in, Monday morning? Seems the usual vague waffling from Daddy pig. I predict high rates of non compliance and confusion.
stumpyjon
Full Member
So we can sit in a sweaty pub / club / restaurant for hours maskless but can’t nip into a shop for a pint of milk without one.
I agree. That's a definite nod to economics/ Tory party ideology rather than health for sure.
I predict high rates of non compliance and confusion.
I predict Boris pictured breaking his own rules within a week.
So we can sit in a sweaty pub / club / restaurant for hours maskless but can’t nip into a shop for a pint of milk without one. When does this kick in, Monday morning? Seems the usual vague waffling from Daddy pig. I predict high rates of non compliance and confusion
Don't worry, we'll be banned from even entering pubs again soon
Poopscoop
Full MemberI agree. That’s a definite nod to economics rather than health for sure.
Economics but also impact on the activity. There's things you can wear a mask for and it really doesn't make much difference to you- shopping, sitting on a bus, etc. And there's others that it makes a big difference or makes it totally impractical- pubs, meals, grindr meets, that sort of thing. So it definitely does make sense to use a graduated mask requirement that starts with the easy stuff, even if it means you're not enforcing masks on some higher risk activities.
I wore a mask on the bus yesterday, wore a mask in the non-pub areas of the place I went to, took teh mask off and had a few pints, then left it off while rocking out to a band, then put it back on to get the bus home. It doesn't make sense if you only look at the risk and reward of mask waving.
jam-bo
I predict Boris pictured breaking his own rules within a week.
Yeah,I would say that's a given.
Edit: True enough NW.
Their symptoms were so different and so mild from those I had treated before," Coetzee told The Telegraph.
"It presents mild disease with symptoms being sore muscles and tiredness for a day or two not feeling well," Coetzee explained. "So far, we have detected that those infected do not suffer the loss of taste or smell. They might have a slight cough. There are no prominent symptoms. Of those infected some are currently being treated at home."
https://www.foxnews.com/health/south-african-doctor-omicron-variant-symptoms-unusual-mild
I know the source is Fox News/Daily Telegraph but the BBC has a similar quote :
The head of the South African Medical Association told the BBC that the cases found so far in South Africa - where only about 24% of the population is fully vaccinated - were not severe, but said investigations into the variant were still at a very early stage.
"The patients are mostly complaining about a sore body and tiredness, extreme tiredness and we see it in the younger generation, it's not the older people... We're not talking about patients that might go straight to a hospital and be admitted," Dr Angelique Coetzee said.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-59442129.amp
They haven’t included hospitality for another reason… the government’s “plan B” for that sector was likely to be mandatory vaccine/test passes/passports, but until more is known about the new variants they will be loathed to introduce that step when it might not be of any use. When more is known, the call will be made… might have to be straight to partial closures (early closing and reduced occupancy) instead. Or carry on as normal for now, ‘till straight after New Year, and then close completely for a few weeks when there is less trade anyway, if need be.
The patients are mostly complaining about a sore body and tiredness, extreme tiredness and we see it in the younger generation, it’s not the older people…
It's an interesting observation - we'll get to see relatively soon whether that is a genuine difference, or something to do with the current age profile of spread of what is still a relatively novel variant. I had read that it was spreading fastest among the student population in Gauteng Province.
Does anyone know exactly when the requirement for PCR on entry to the country applies?
My other half flew into Gatwick from Canada early Saturday morning, waaay earlier than then press conference announcement. I can't figure out whether she's covered by the new rules as she was most definitely "in the country" before then announcement...
It’s an interesting observation – we’ll get to see relatively soon whether that is a genuine difference
I particularly liked "a day or two not feeling well". If it really has mutated into something similar to a cold then presumably we should be encouraging it to become the dominant strain?
Although it sounds too good to be true.
Are the LFTs a waste of money, or actually slightly useful?
We’ve been regularly testing at home when we have cold like symptoms, always negative, until this week.
We all have cold like symptoms, no Covid symptoms. Wife had 2 +ve LFTs yesterday and +ve PCR. I am more Ill than her with mild flu symptoms (they’ve developed from cold) and done 2 LFTs each day for the last 2 days, both -ve. Went for PCR today. Hopefully I’m -ve as otherwise the whole household isolating is a PITA (or is it easier?). I suppose it’s just winter and if you feel I’ll, take an LFT, it may make you take a PCR when you otherwise wouldn’t
I particularly liked “a day or two not feeling well”. If it really has mutated into something similar to a cold then presumably we should be encouraging it to become the dominant strain?
Most people only have “a day or two not feeling well” with the variants we already know well and are already dealing with in the UK. But they are keeping the NHS busy enough, and are killing people. That most people have symptoms that can be managed at home does not make any of these variants “something similar to a cold”.
Are the LFTs a waste of money, or actually slightly useful?
If the focus switches to knowing which variants are where in the coming weeks and months, only PCR tests can help map that. LFT won’t be useful in this regard (although can still help you not to pass the virus to work mates, family, friends etc). Personal tool rather than a major public health control tool now (in my opinion… we’re still using them).
I’m not equating COVID to a cold, more that the symptoms we’re experiencing are common to pretty much any other winter illness, so without the LFT how would you know? My point is that I suspect I have COVID, but the LFTs are consistently saying not.
This is pertinent as yesterday I went I. To the office for the first time in ages, and had taken an LFT the day before and yesterday morning before I went in because of my cold like symptoms, unsurprisingly CV19 was a conversation point. Then I had to depart mid afternoon as my wife phoned about her results, so I had to pick the child up from school while she went for PCR, I felt like such a nob in case I’d taken it in to work
I particularly liked “a day or two not feeling well”. If it really has mutated into something similar to a cold then presumably we should be encouraging it to become the dominant strain?
If that's truly the case, and not just among the young or the double vaccinated, that would be good. But it's new, the data is very patchy, so we'll have to wait with everything crossed. All we know so far is that it's a good spreader.
Sorry Pieface, crossed the streams a bit there, I didn’t think you were equating Covid to a cold at all. You’re doing all you can do to protect others, and LFT are a key part of that. That you’ve got the PCR test now in case your LFT are giving false negatives seems wise to me. I did the same when my family members were positive and I felt ill. You can only do what you can do.
But they are keeping the NHS busy enough, and are killing people
The head of the South African Medical Association says so far at least that it doesn't appear to be the case with Omicron. Although she's says that it will take 2-3 weeks to have a much better idea with hospitalisations and deaths.
What appears to be certain is that Omicron is very significantly different to other variants.
Are the LFTs a waste of money, or actually slightly useful?
IMO a waste of time and money and the only reason their use is encouraged is Johnson and his cronies bought gazuillions of them
Far too inaccurate
But thats a fairly ill-informed opinion
it doesn’t appear to be the case with Omicron
It’s mostly hitting people in their 20/30s, but it is early days. And yes, putting people in that young age bracket in intensive care. Hopefully higher vaccine uptake in the older age groups in the countries already hit will offer them plenty of protection… but spreading first in younger age groups, and then hitting older age groups harder later, is the pattern seen with other emergent variants.
@tjagainBut my wife got 2 +ve tests almost instantly, backed up by a +ve PCR, I think that the LFTs may only be accurate for certain people / DNA? Let’s see how my PCR pans out, plenty of households round here that have had a whole mix of PCR results and either passed it between themselves or not, which is interesting in its own right, however the wife is still isolating in the lounge
the only reason their use is encouraged is Johnson and his cronies bought gazuillions of them
Is the NHS really that compliant? Would they really push something which is a waste of time and money just to please Johnson and his cronies?
Edit : My understanding is that how accurate a rapid lateral flow test is directly relates to how infectious a person is, so ranging from 95% accuracy in situations where the person is highly infectious to not accurate at all where the person is hardly likely to pass on the virus.
