https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/coronavirus-vaccination/safety-and-side-effects/
Call 111 immediately if:
You get any of these symptoms starting from around 4 days to 4 weeks after being vaccinated:a severe headache that is not relieved with painkillers or is getting worse
a headache that feels worse when you lie down or bend over
a headache that's unusual for you along with blurred vision, feeling or being sick, problems speaking, weakness, drowsiness or seizures (fits)
a rash that looks like small bruises or bleeding under the skin
shortness of breath, chest pain, leg swelling or persistent abdominal (tummy) pain
Depends on the duration and severity of the headache, but 111 would be my port of call for advice.
I had one relative who had really quite a severe reaction to her second jab (ripping headache + temporary vision loss in one eye!) and got told to piss off by her local A&E, but any persistent headache, especially if unaccompanied by any other cold/flu type symptoms, should be treated seriously.
so when you say no one is wearing masks please say England not UK
but people are wearing masks in England, it varies massively though, i was on a train at the weekend and one busy carriage was 85+% wearing masks (i counted over 40 with masks and just the odd one or two not), next train was a less busy but less masks, about 60-70%
same in the shops, have been in an aisle where everyone is masked, walk down the next one and its more maskless than masked.
Depends on the duration and severity of the headache, but 111 would be my port of call for advice.
Thanks, just brought her home, a call is in order I think
44 minutes later, spoken to 111, sat at the local Urgent Treatment Centre for her to be assessed.
Fingers crossed for you.
i was on a train at the weekend and one busy carriage was 85+% wearing masks
It was about 50% on my train-tube-train to Liverpool yesterday. I was of course one of the 50%. TfL mandate a mask but this is clearly not enforced. I am of the opinion that most people want to do the right thing and will wear a mask. But people want it to be easy. A requirement that provided free masks at the point of tube station entry and disposal on exit would most likely be successful. Expecting people to comply of their own accord with their own masks will meet with the observed 50% adherence. That's life.
I view the Conservative's in the House of Commons position as beyond contempt. Shadow of the Leader and all that...
You don’t need free mask dispensers, you just need clear messaging and legislation (and example) from the government. People will carry masks if they expect to have to wear them.
People will carry masks if they expect to have to wear them.
Not always - I have on occasion forgotten to have one with me. Also they should really be replaced relatively often. My real point is that if you really want high adherence, make it easy and the people will follow. Nudging is not free.
I view the Conservative’s in the House of Commons position as beyond contempt. Shadow of the Leader and all that…
Radio 4 earlier and the MP being grilled on that was really squirming when asked why the health minister was saying one thing and half the house was ignoring the advice.
They're doing better... right now 4 out of 14 on the Conservative benches are wearing a mask. They're shifting... I just looked.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/live/bbcparliament
All the SNP are wearing masks (as they have been all along). Camera hasn't moved to other opposition benches since I turned that feed on.
I have on occasion forgotten to have one with me
You wouldn't have if it was currently mandated, and backed up with clear communication. You'd make sure you always had one. And spares.
Like all of us, you're currently in the "must remember my umbrella", rather than "I must do up my seatbelt before I set off in the car" phase of mask wearing. I get that you are proposing ways to support voluntary mask wearing... but it is messing around at the edges... what is (I really mean was, we're past this now) needed is mandated mask wearing this winter. People will wear masks if they are told it is needed. We've messed up another academic year for the kids, and we should be ashamed of that.
Fingers crossed for you.
We are back home. Nurse practitioners were very thorough, no immediate red flags but if it gets worse, probably A&E next. She's looking and sounding a little bit brighter now, but she's been up and down with this headache since Tuesday.
You can imagine how delighted a 14 year old girl was to be answering medical questions with her dad in the room, though I had offered to leave!
I'd forgotten how weird it feels the first time you have your blood pressure taken - she's never had it done before and was a bit freaked out!
Wise to be cautious... but I'm sure she'll be fine. Hugs, care and drinks.
“I must do up my seatbelt before I set off in the car” phase of mask wearing
Not me - I forgot mine when it was mandated! If you had to take your seatbelt to the car each time you drove it, the analogy would be true. Whenever I left my mask behind, I didn't go into the shops. Simple. Now imagine that in schools. I'd have them provided freely everywhere.
She’s looking and sounding a little bit brighter now, but she’s been up and down with this headache since Tuesday.
Glad to hear it. Cytokine production leads to headaches. I'm very sensitive and notice chills, aches and headaches at the slightest hint of an immune response.
You can imagine how delighted a 14 year old girl was to be answering medical questions with her dad in the room, though I had offered to leave!
You might think that of course, but I bet she was glad you were there really. She wouldn't admit it of course (disclaimer - we had boys, but my BiL is a lone father now with three girls).
Now imagine that in schools. I’d have them provided freely everywhere.
Our secondary school was giving out hundreds a day. From their own budget. They had to stop. Mandate mask use and make people (in this case parents) responsible for ensuring masks are carried. The government needs to act, not make schools, train operators, shops etc take on the burden of convincing and supplying people. That hands off approach by government does not work. We already know that. Stop the buck passing, the government needs to step up and lead here.
I think it’s time to clamp down on the unvaccinated.
60% of covid hospital admissions are in the unvaccinated, in addition the unvaccinated are likely to have a higher viral load for longer and contribute to the ongoing high levels of infection.
We raise billions of pounds from cigarette tax to help pay the NHS bill for the self inflicted healthcare burden smokers create, so why not do the same for people who refuse the vaccine?
If I was in charge, I’d change the tax codes of vaccine refusers to add an extra penny to their income tax.
but she’s been up and down with this headache since Tuesday.
That sounds better than a persistent or worsening one. Hopefully nowt to be worrying about, but well done for getting her checked out.
Do as I say, not as I do.
They are absolute ****ing bellends on this aren't they? Just don't get it and/or care. Sooner take notice of Karen on TwitFace rather than the BMA.
I really do think that centuries of constant inbreeding have dulled his wits.. i wonder if he makes his matron and nannie wear a mask?
You don’t need free mask dispensers, you just need clear messaging and legislation (and example) from the government. People will carry masks if they expect to have to wear them.
Its not an out and out solution but this would be a really good idea. A few times i have jumped on the tube/overground/bus and forgotten to take a mask with me and had to pretty much beg the tfl staff for a mask.
I think it’s time to clamp down on the unvaccinated.
I get the reason for strong opinion on this but its unethical to mandate a vaccine. Also it doesn't work now we know the vaccine drops off after a few months. Someone could be double jabbed 12 months ago no booster and let into a club but an unvaccinated couldn't. High level it makes sense but not when you really look at it.
I get the reason for strong opinion on this but its unethical to mandate a vaccine
In the US only the Pfizer vaccine is formally FDA approved (everything else, including all COVID treatments, are approved by Emergency Use Authorisation - that EUA can be taken away once the pandemic is deemed over). Now Pfizer is FDA approved the US Government can mandate usage for its employees. Companies can also do the same. We don't have that here - I don't personally view it as unethical under the context of a formal approval process, but it will not happen in the UK.
I get the reason for strong opinion on this but its unethical to mandate a vaccine. Also it doesn’t work now we know the vaccine drops off after a few months. Someone could be double jabbed 12 months ago no booster and let into a club but an unvaccinated couldn’t. High level it makes sense but not when you really look at it.
Are DIY antibody tests (like we use LFTs) viable? Or are they always a blood test that goes back to a lab?
If so, you could use that for a 'pass' rather than differentiate between vax'd and not vax'd?
My sister's family all caught it recently, and she was sent an antibody test in the post to do for some reason.
I know we are now meant to act more kindly in how we talk about our politicians but id take great delight in knocking that rees-moog **** out, time and time again
I get the reason for strong opinion on this but its unethical to mandate a vaccine. Also it doesn’t work now we know the vaccine drops off after a few months. Someone could be double jabbed 12 months ago no booster and let into a club but an unvaccinated couldn’t. High level it makes sense but not when you really look at it.
Yes, I agree you shouldn’t force people to take a vaccine, but it’s clear the level of vaccination we have won’t be enough to keep the infection levels to a manageable level so we need extra incentives to get people jabbed.
I think the evidence is that although vaccine immunity wanes it still keeps people out of hospital for a considerable time. France is one of the most vaccine hesitant countries in Europe, but their vaccine passport scheme needed to get into clubs and bars has resulted in a higher vaccination level than us and lower infection rates.
Someone could be double jabbed 12 months ago no booster and let into a club but an unvaccinated couldn’t.
Vaccine passes all have “valid ‘till” dates all across Europe, including here (despite how little we’re using them). So that statement simply isn’t true. Vaccine status could expire with waining (it does in France). All the so called problems with vaccine passports have been solved elsewhere with equivalence given to previously infected or recently tested status. You don’t have to prove (or have) vaccination if you can show your test results. The only remaining problem here to solve is that many people see it as a “rights” issue. We’re easily led down weird dead ends in the UK.
https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/britain-secures-covid-19-antivirals-merck-pfizer-2021-10-20/
UK has purchased 480k courses of molnupiravir. The cavalry might yet arrive. The data from Merck shows that an oral treatment, taken early (2 tablets of 800mg per day), halved the rate of going to hospital. This is less than intravenous antibodies (about 80%) but easily administered. Think tamiflu for COVID - for those of you that had swine flu. Pfizer also have a drug in Phase 3 (dosed with another oral called ritonavir to boost its performance), but this has yet to read out (perhaps December).
Merck have filed for Emergency Use in the US and the EMA are considering a rolling review. Unlike the antibodies (which stay around in the body for up to a year), these oral drugs are removed quickly. That means the trials finish quickly and hence submission can be quite quick once data is reported. Approval for rolling reviews is faster than normal, but I'd guess at approval in 1H2022. MHRA will need to approve before the UK roll out treatment.
joepud
Full MemberI get the reason for strong opinion on this but its unethical to mandate a vaccine.
You don't have to mandate a vaccine, you just have to mandate consequences for not having it. That's what's at the heart of vaccine resistance and the difficulty of the issue- there's fairly little feeling of consequence for not getting it yourself, even less if you've bought into "just the flu" or swallowed the lies. The impact is bigger of course but it's easy to not feel like that even for yourself, let alone for the way it helps others. So even a mild resistance to the vaccine can be enough for people to not get it. Even having it just be inconvenient to get it, is enough.
I don't think it'd take a lot of mandated consequence at all to push most people back. The difference between "people who say they'll quit their jobs if there's a vaccine requirement" and "people who actually do" is a good indicator of that- early studies in the states came up routinely with numbers like 50%, 44%, but when the mandates actually roll out the real amount is in low single figures. And the number of people who hadn't got the vaccine until the workplace mandate comes in is many times higher. As soon as there's an actual, immediately perceptible impact people knuckle down.
I've a personal theory... I reckon that if we introduced a totally voluntary opt out of the vaccines, which requires no justification, but we made it slightly more inconvenient than getting the vaccine, even vaccine resistant people would choose to get jabbed. Make the opt out centres slightly harder to get to, make the opening hours just a little bit shorter and the process just a little bit more of a pain in the bum, make getting vaccinated the easy option instead of not. I don't think it needs big consequences, just a minor change to make it the road of least resistance
At the moment it's just too easy to not bother.
Now Pfizer is FDA approved the US Government can mandate usage for its employees. Companies can also do the same. We don’t have that here – I don’t personally view it as unethical under the context of a formal approval process, but it will not happen in the UK.
Maybe unethical was wrong slightly immoral.. i dunno? But thats already happening right at least in some states like SF and NYC. Currently Kyrie Irving is ineligible to play for the Brooklyn Nets because hes refusing to take the jab - a basketball game is a mass gathering and unvaccinated people can't attend mass gatherings even if they take a test so for him its get the jab of miss out on millions.
I think many people who haven’t taken it have the mentality that they don’t need it/want it and it is their body etc., and don’t consider the consequences for everyone else - high infection levels, greater burden on the hospitals etc., which I why I like the idea of a penny on income tax as it would show them the wider impact and cost of their decision and the expectation they (not the rest of society) should pay for it.
You don’t have to mandate a vaccine, you just have to mandate consequences for not having it.
Nicely phrased, and I agree with you.
We already mandate some vaccinations for working in some healthcare roles, some are mandated to travel to certain countries. It's not as obvious due to the small numbers affected, but it happens. People still have choices.
UK has purchased 480k courses of molnupiravir. The cavalry might yet arrive.
I wonder how many people who refused a vaccine because they don't know the long term effects would use the same logic to refuse molnupiravir if they started developing moderate Covid.
How long does immunity last after infection?
How long does immunity last after infection?
Isn’t the world record for reinfection something like 10 weeks. So I’d say if you get it again in next 3 months you are unlucky..
That said if you do get it again in 3 months you can proudly consider yourself a record breaker. A bit like usain bolt..only iller..
How long does immunity last after infection?
Probably about 18-24mo, but it will be a distribution from say 3mo out with a long tail. We are reinfected by HCoVs all the time and they give us 1) a cold and 2) a boost of antibodies to see us along for another year.
Actually it's really
We already mandate some approved vaccinations for working in some healthcare roles
US see it the same way, and it is the formal approval that is the significant milestone.
Quite an eye opener looking at the % rise in case numbers over the past week in the districts where the new subvariant of Delta is bedding in. 700% rise in Weston super Mare in seven days.
700% rise in Weston super Mare in seven days.
Yep. Going pretty crazy in the SW at the moment. Apparently most places are hitting their all time highest numbers now. News said it ripping through the schools and some places have 1 in 10 of 16 year olds infected
Just in time for us to export it to Europe and beyond at half term!
Did anyone notice that of all the important questions that the public sent in for the Coronavirus press briefing yesterday, one of the two chosen for airing was about how to get your kids certified as immune so you could go on holiday abroad?
When I caught 'swine flu', 'tamiflu' made me feel more ill. I ended up binning the tablets.
So, considering that today is my last day of self-isolation after catching it, and I have two doses of vaccine I can essentially ignore COVID for a few months?
So, considering that today is my last day of self-isolation after catching it, and I have two doses of vaccine I can essentially ignore COVID for a few months?
It won't make you seriously ill if you come into contact with it.
It might kill someone vulnerable that you pass it on to though.
MTB(er) related
You don’t have to mandate a vaccine, you just have to mandate consequences for not having it.
Exactly. My employer have introduced ‘encouragement’ by only providing enhanced sick pay to those that are vaccinated if taking time off due to covid. The impact of unvaccinated employees being ‘pinged’ means others who have been vaccinated having to cover many extra weeks of shifts while they self isolate for 10 days each time.
I don’t know how much impact this has had, but our company normally gives full pay when sick. I am surprised I haven’t heard of more employers taking this approach.
52000 today. Cripes.
