So if people really want rates to reduce then we need to go back to proper restrictions like in April, otherwise stop going on about mask wearing as if they are the golden bullet that stops the spread
No, think it through, this not what we’re saying.
I’ll keep it simple, we’ve stopped masked wearing in schools (mostly an unvacced population) and relaxed quite a bit along with mood music which has resulted in up to 20% of population not properly adhering to social distancing or wearing masks in public places. This has resulted in rocketing infection rates.
Which scenario do you think is going to be least worst whilst we further relax covid restrictions?:
a) retaining existing mandatory covid transmission mitigation measures (social distancing, mask wearing); or
b) removing all mandatory transmission mitigation measures...
Who do you think has got it right, the UK government with mr shakey hand man Johnson & Sajid ****ing Javid or the WHO?
Once the genie is out of the bottle, you think it will go back in?
It’s been a long painful journey to get where we are, why throw all that away on a reckless gamble?
Go look at the footage of places where covid is rampant and think how that is going to look in the UK...
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jul/09/im-an-ae-doctor-covid-patients-are-younger-this-time
But it seems almost unfathomable that as Covid infections are rising that the last few lines of defence are being torn away. The most bizarre decision is the mask mandate. It seems almost wholly political. And it’s clear already that mask-wearing is going to become a political statement. That’s totally unnecessary. Masks can protect those around you. They don’t prevent businesses from opening, nor do they hamper the economy. So why ditch the mask mandate? I can’t think of a single good explanation.
I'll make the point again, mask wearing Lancs schools never stopped and it's torn through both primary and secondary, didn't make a blind bit of difference.
The genie is already out of the bottle, we can retain the existing transmission measure but they are already in tatters. I don't disagree that were throwing everything away too early so people can have a summer holiday, not much we can do about it now so I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.
PS I don't think masks will help quell the massive transmission spike that will result from tonight's football.
Do you think that mask wearing by secondary school age kids in Lancashire as been unaffected by a national message about not needing a mask in school? That’s not been the case here in Yorkshire, with schools handing out hundreds of masks a day to pupils turning up without them, and mask wearing for adolescents in non school situations disappearing.
PS I don’t think masks will help quell the massive transmission spike that will result from tonight’s football.
I missed this, did you add it? Hard to disagree with it.
Likely he’s absolutely right, but I suspect Boris and chums saw the opportunity for increased spend into many suffering areas - pubs, entertainment, rail, tube etc all under the name of “getting the country back in good spirits”. Football stadium attendance was condemned by some Europeans.
Watch it rise quickly over the next few days putting more pressure on next weeks announcement, albeit he’s using the school hols as a “Firebreak”. Boris is hoping it’ll dip before September to avoid reintroducing measures then.
On the holiday front that’s all a process to please the people and the holiday industry, but I was glad to read that all the carriers have stated that mask wearing on planes remains compulsory, but I wouldn’t mind betting we are going to see a few flights turn around as some idiots kick off.
More people are revealing themselves to be idiots.
One of my kids has just tested positive, so now we are in for ten days and having to inform everyone left, right and centre. My wife did the honourable thing and let two other groups of parents know who had been in contact on Friday afternoon (although they attend the same school).
Parent 1 is already on holiday with her daughter. Response = we'll try to get a test. Nope, you are supposed to self isolate immediately.
Parents 2. Response = "It's OK, they were outside pretty much all of the time they were round here. I'm sure our daughter won't have to go on the track and trace, will she?" With a bit of emphasis on the last bit. I.e. don't put her down as a direct close contact. We asked our child if it was true they had been outside nearly all the time on Friday afternoon. She said "no, we were in 'x's bedroom most of the time".
And the kicker?
Both parents '2' above work for the NHS. I guess everyone is very keen to follow the rules and insist everyone else does - except if it buggers up their own holiday plans. In which case, **** everybody else, we've earned this holiday.
The really sad thing is that this vindicates Johnson's reckless strategy of letting it rip. If the rest of the population are irresponsible and selfish then what is the point in wasting time trying to contain and police it?
Message two from 'Parents 2' above received a few minutes ago.
"Well we're sure it is OK, 'x' did her lateral flow test yesterday and it came back negative, so we're sure it is fine".
Both NHS workers (and not at a junior level), remember.
As my wife said "if I'd done a lateral flow test yesterday it would probably have come back negative too, but that's not the ****ing point, as well they know".
I don't know if they're trying to convince themselves, or us, or just make themselves feel better - before getting in a car and buggering off on holiday. Life is too short to worry about the selfishness of others and what their motives might be. This country is full of selfish pricks.
What's the latest on kid's vaccinations? ukgov seems to have parked it even though Pfizer is approved? Getting the impression now that the summer hols is being viewed as one big chickenpox party.
mask wearing Lancs schools never stopped and it’s torn through both primary and secondary, didn’t make a blind bit of difference
The thing is, unless we have a parallel universe to compare, we'll never know how much difference it made, it might have been even worse. My guess is that masks were worn in school but outside school there were no precautions.
What’s the latest on kid’s vaccinations? ukgov seems to have parked it even though Pfizer is approved?
Presumably the priority remains the under 30s, and possibly linked to supply chain issues.
Does seem likely that in the short term "chicken pox party" will happen regardless. Let's hope that the kids don't pass it on to unvaccinated parents
Does seem likely that in the short term “chicken pox party” will happen regardless.
It is already happening. Around here, c. 20-30% of kids were not in school and supposedly (ha!) isolating last week (last week of term where I live).
Let's hope we aren't incubating a variant with a higher mortality somewhere in the UK right now. Otherwise it might have to be a Lee Harvey Oswald moment for fatso.
It's looking more and more as if they want to build immunity in the school age population via infection rather than wait to offer them vaccinations. Prioritising freedom of choice, and personal responsibility... except if you're a parent of, or are yourself, a teenager under 18, you have no choice... the government has made it for you.
Younger people don't tend to vote Tory.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/15539150/brits-back-office-lockdown-new-staff-learn-rishi-sunak/
RISHI Sunak is urging Brits to return to the office as soon as possible - declaring that it is “really important” for younger staff.
And.....
The Conservatives have an “unhealthy financial reliance” on property developers, with more than a fifth of all donations to the party over the past decade coming from the residential property sector
This might be an occasion where I ignore government advice
The Conservatives have an “unhealthy financial reliance” on property developers, with more than a fifth of all donations to the party over the past decade coming from the residential property sector
Jenrick.
Enough said.
5 year old with a temperature. Lateral flow negative but kept off school and done a PCR this morning. Now waiting for confirmation she is ok.
I've accepted it's a matter of time before she, and her younger siblings, catch it. I'm not too concerned for their health, just feels like a poorly managed situation right now.
Interesting piece in The Guardian today about hygiene theatre. Other countries are doing something about ventilation and HEPA filtration. The UK? Nah, just wash your hands.
The thing is, unless we have a parallel universe to compare, we’ll never know how much difference it made
Not enough to be considered an effective measure on it's own. In this situation we don't need comparisons we're not arguing whether it would have been a bit worse without, in fact we do have comparisons, other areas stopped mask wearing, rates in Lancashire continued to rise in line or in excess of other areas. Mask wearing didn't stop it or slow it compared to non-mask wearing areas.
My guess is that masks were worn in school but outside school there were no precautions.
Which is also the point I'm trying to make, masks need to worn and worn effectively, this is also not happening. When assessing how important it is to fight for ongoing mask wearing we need to understand real world use.
If we want to stem the tide of infections mask wearing isn't the answer, we need to roll back the freedoms as well. Clearly the government doesn't want to stem the tide.
Clearly the government doesn’t want to stem the tide.
Clearly. If anything their actions seem designed to purposefully aid its spread...
Oh, and don’t disagree that ask wearing on its own will solve the problem. Only that removing them being mandatory will further increase transmission rates.
And it’s clear already that mask-wearing is going to become a political statement.
It already is.
And it is the exact people you would expect who are characterising mask wearing as for bedwetters.
'Brexity' would be the most apt description.
‘Brexity’ would be the most apt description.
Trumpity? Or did they co-evolve?
Broadly a type of Nationalism + conspiracism + ‘alternative facts’ + chauvinism + masculism + anti-intellectualism, etc.
Does ‘Trumpism’ cover it? Who’s the daddy?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trumpism
Broadly a type of Nationalism + conspiracy + ‘alternative facts’ + chauvinism + masculism + anti-intellectualism etc…
Otherwise known as 'stupidity'.
Otherwise known as ‘stupidity’.
Yep. But politicians used to draw the line at legitimising it.
Not any more.
More people are revealing themselves to be idiots.
One of my kids has just tested positive, so now we are in for ten days and having to inform everyone left, right and centre. My wife did the honourable thing and let two other groups of parents know who had been in contact on Friday afternoon (although they attend the same school).
Parent 1 is already on holiday with her daughter. Response = we’ll try to get a test. Nope, you are supposed to self isolate immediately.
Parents 2. Response = “It’s OK, they were outside pretty much all of the time they were round here. I’m sure our daughter won’t have to go on the track and trace, will she?” With a bit of emphasis on the last bit. I.e. don’t put her down as a direct close contact. We asked our child if it was true they had been outside nearly all the time on Friday afternoon. She said “no, we were in ‘x’s bedroom most of the time”.
And the kicker?
Both parents ‘2’ above work for the NHS. I guess everyone is very keen to follow the rules and insist everyone else does – except if it buggers up their own holiday plans. In which case, **** everybody else, we’ve earned this holiday.
I've heard stories from friends who have young kids of parents using WhatsApp groups to persuade anyone with a kid who tests positive not to pass on details as they have a holiday booked in the next fortnight but thought they were just the odd rogue group. Reading your story is making me realise that it's more widespread, even among 'intelligent, people.
Getting the impression now that the summer hols is being viewed as one big chickenpox party.
It went through my primary school when I was 5 and we had plenty of those parties. All the kids mingling, passing it on and generally not being overly affected. Apart from me who seemed to have natural immunity and just couldn't get infected. Well, roll on 16 years and I get chicken pox really badly. As in I spent a week having to live under a cold shower and bathing in ointment just to take a tiny bit of the constant pain and itching. Didn't sleep for the first 4 days at all, the scabs breaking off with blood and pus weeping out near-constantly. Day 5 I was in hospital due to lack of blood oxygen levels, constant shaking and hallucinations. Was in hospital for nearly a fortnight and didn't go back to work for a month in total.
In general the 'Chicken Pox Party' idea is crap for Covid 19 as we don't know for certain that infection provides protection going forward. For me it brings back horrible memories that I would struggle to wish upon my worst enemy. I really don't like the direction we, as a country, are going in with this.
Yep. But politicians used to draw the line at legitimising it.
So this, they don't just legitimise it they weaponise it.
Hmm…
https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1414597745097252866?s=21
If Public Health measures are needed, the government should make it clear to the public and businesses alike exactly what they are, and support those tasked with implementing them.
Just we expected, some ambiguous rules for people to have a punch up about.
So we need those rules but the government are worried about the media and some of their backbench MPs and promised this would be irreversible and we all know how Johnson keeps his promises so they have to just go for guidelines instead because they have worked so well previously.
Think I will need to get a week away end of this month or next. Normally go for September but strongly suspect we will be in "whilst it may resemble lockdown its actually downlock instead".
If Public Health measures are needed, the government should make it clear to the public and businesses alike exactly what they are, and support those tasked with implementing them.
You'd think that would be day one of government school.
Maybe that's the problem. If you want to do any other professional job with a responsibility for public safety, you need several years of focused education. If you want to run the country you just need a sparkly personality and to be good at bullshitting.
Well, after a couple of positive tests at the Scout group last week, luckily neither in my son's bubble, it seems my daughter has a number of school mates isolating as contacts of positives, but not actually required to isolate herself yet.
The impending doom is circling, or so it feels...
see Nostferatu was going with play nice unless you what restrictions to return.
The impending doom is circling, or so it feels…
It's coming. In our case it is already here. I can forsee another buggered up holiday etc.
But I would be OK with this if every other bugger was keeping their end of the bargain. But they won't if their holiday plans, social plans, whatever are endangered.
Unfortunately this pandemic has shown what a large proportion of our population is made up of self-centered cocks. Actually, scrub 'shown' and replace with 'confirmed'.
So there were a few extras:
-Red list returnees still get hotel isolation
-Measures reviewed in September no doubt as we enter traditional flu season
-Winter measures possible, and not only for this year
-Science has said outdoor meet-ups and meeting indoors with the Windows open is much more viable in the summer, we have the school firebreak and delaying opening up until September could actually worsen the NHS impact
delaying opening up until September could actually worsen the NHS impact
Depending on what we did over the summer, and in September, of course. If we were to let the vaccine rollout tail off, didn’t offer vaccines to teenagers under 18, didn’t use the opportunity to reduce backlogs of people needing non-Covid medical attention, didn’t improve the situations in schools (ventilation, tests before returning, and mask wearing in place at first)… then yes, there would be no point trying to stop high levels of infections over the summer and into September.
Red list returnees still get hotel isolation
Don't get this. In a month we're going to be World's Public Enemy #1 - it's everyone else that won't want anything to do with us.
Don’t get this.
Delta won’t be the last variant of concern we hear about.
In the Guardian article it said the conditions we have (high level of cases, high level of vaccination) are perfect for promoting the emergence of an escape variant. The next few months are going to be shit.
(high level of cases, high [ but not high enough ] level of vaccination) are perfect for promoting the emergence of an escape variant
I hope that proves to be wrong, but we (and our government) should absolutely be acting as if it might happen, and act to prevent it. It’s not in the power of any individual outside government to act to prevent that scenario. It is the personal responsibility of the man in charge, and those that enable him on a day to day basis (his MPs), to avoid it.
Well this is just putting human beings through the "covid mill" as quickly as possible before winter and/or a new variants arrive.
It is simply spreading the casualties out not complicated.
It is a big roll of the dice to try and keep NHS bed load manageable.
We are the bleeding edge of covid management, best of luck folks.
It is simply spreading the casualties out not complicated.
It is not just “spreading” the casualties out, it is increasing both the number of cases and the severity of illness, by increasing the size of this upcoming wave and bringing it forward before many people have been given the chance to be fully vaccinated ahead of being possibly infected.
After the 19th - everyone in the UK is going to catch covid, it's as simple as that, particularly with the delta strain.
The only question is how fast it will spread through the population, and that's going to be to down to two things:
1) How quickly restrictions are dropped. ie: ok, you don't have to wear masks shopping, but what about on the tube? are cinema's going to be open to full capacity? Are gyms allowed to run spinning classes at full capacity?
2) How much the level of vaccination in the UK acts to slow the spread - against the delta variant in particular.
I suspect that the tracking, tracing, and even testing protocols are about to go completely out of the window. From the 19th, the narrative will be focused entirely on hospitalisations and deaths - there will effectively be no testing out in the wider population, just in hospitalised cases for diagnostic purposes. "Bubbles", "close contacts" and "self isolation" will just cease to be a thing - this will just start to be treated as seasonal Flu.
Is this some sort of deliberate strategy to try to hit peak covid admissions during the summer? Or is this just more idiotic populist politics by Boris and chums to hit a previously publicised "freedom day" (cringe)? Don't know.
The good news is, the rest of the world are about to have a really good model of what happens when social restrictions are removed in a 52% vaccinated (both doses) population, in the context of the Delta strain.
As a nation we are spinning the roulette wheel.
I can't stand the guy but I hope Boris continues to be lucky*
*Not withstanding the unnecessary lives already lost and the associated families dealing with those losses and their impacts.
I had a chat with members of the family last night in preparation for one/some of us testing positive in the next few months and how we handle the scenario. It's now seeming inevitable.
A “central estimate” of 2000 hospitalisations and 200 deaths a day.
I hate to say it, but I think the general public will accept that. They may not be happy about it, but I think it’s at a level the conservatives won’t find politically damaging. Well, 1000+ a day wasn’t politically damaging was it! I believe the public are conditioned to it now.
After the 19th – everyone in the UK is going to catch covid, it’s as simple as that, particularly with the delta strain.
Basically this.
All just personal and uneducated opinion of mine of course. I’ll be very happy to be wrong.
Anecdotally, I live in a decidedly faded east coast Scottish seaside town and it’s currently bonkers busy here. No one has ever seen it so busy since the days we used to get 20 bus loads arrive from Glasgow and another 20 from Edinburgh, mask wearing has plummeted (imported gate lickers), I’m told a couple of pubs have had to close due to infected staff not leaving enough to keep open. And the Fair is the biggest anyone can remember it being. Fortunately most, not all of this is outdoors. But quite a few of the fair rides are actually just lorry trailers people go inside as groups. The fair have tried to make it Covid “safe” but not enough to prevent transmission of Delta.
https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1414843284963299345?s=21
If Public Health measures are needed the government needs to be clear to the public and businesses alike what they are, and support those they task with making sure they in place.
