Put another way, why would you want to come? Officials are getting ever nastier and brutish on the border with official blessing from the poison dwarf at their head. We have adverts on the TV asking EU citizens to register to stay by 30 June even if they have official leave to remain papers.
It is shaming how insular our officials are.
Can I just point out that it's not the officials on the front line who design the policies they have to implement, so direct your venom at the cause not the symptom.
My BiL says he has already given up – ‘no-one else is bothering’
Surely the mask/no mask thing comes down to where you are and what requirements are in place there. For instance there is no requirement to wear a mask outdoors - never has been. There are currently requirements to where masks in many indoor settings, e.g. shops. If a shop decides to continue with mask wearing after it is no longer mandatory then you should wear a mask. So we should all continue wearing one where required or requested.
Anyway your BiL's statement is wildly inaccurate.
If a shop decides to continue with mask wearing after it is no longer mandatory then you should wear a mask.
Won’t work. If it’s down to the shop, and its staff, rather then official from the top down, it’ll just be a world of stress and hassle for shop workers who in no way deserve it.
Anyway your BiL’s statement is wildly inaccurate.
100% agree.
Also he's a t**t according to his sister, in her response to that assertion. Ah, sisterly love!
here’s some evidence:
Clearly what CG construes as evidence is significantly different than most people
With such a low bar set for establishing actual facts, her stance on the covid vaccine makes a little more sense
What, a media buying contract just like anyone else would use if they were putting out a load of messages, in this case its probably all the covid related messaging (you know, the ads they put on telly) rather than “buy more stuff” but that is hardly evidence of silencing the press.
Except that last year the contract with the same company was something like £19 million so how can they justify £320 million for this year. Oh dear, could this mean that there'll be even more of treating the public as stupid and an increase in those stupid 3 word slogans.
I think CG has now gone full tin foil hat.
No I haven't but do believe that this isn't just about a virus.
Clearly what CG construes as evidence is significantly different than most people
With such a low bar set for establishing actual facts, her stance on the covid vaccine makes a little more sense
You just can't help yourself can you tpbiker??!! Am so grateful that for a change you haven't called me an "anti-vaxxer".
Those stupid 3 word slogans.
Like Leave means Leave?
Brexit means Brexit?
Take back control?
Get Brexit done?
Oh dear, could this mean that there’ll be even more of treating the public as stupid and an increase in those stupid 3 word slogans.
You mean the public health warnings that have told people what they needed to do to stay safe and minimise transmission of the virus that has killed 150,000 Brits so far?
The increase in the contract price isn't to do with increased propaganda, its to do with someone else ripping of the tax payer.
Yet again, you seem to be mixing up a valid concern with a position that is not supported by the weight of informed scientific opinion.
Except that last year
thea contract with the same company was something like £19 million so how can they justify £320 million for this year.
FTFY.
Are scope and specification the same for both contracts?
Not sure if you’ve seen the most recent publication 14 from PHE. It makes for some sober reading. Careful case control studies shows the secondary attack rate of the delta strain in Households is about 50% higher than the alpha strain. You are likewise about the same more likely to go to hospital. Fortunately having some antibodies on board prior to meeting delta is protective.
That protection may come from past infection, vaccines (two doses needed to get above 50% reduction in symptomatic infection) or hopefully AZs antibody when they release their trial results.
The four week postponement is conservative. Even with a quarter of adults unprotected, the number of cases can still be large, as can healthcare burden. Forget zero covid, vaccines Are to mitigate disease when you catch it (and you most likely will).
At least I correctly predicted four weeks ago that the delta strain would replace the alpha strain. That has come to pass. Further predictions beyond four weeks are unwise.
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The four week postponement is conservative.
It is. But it will be a hell of challenge to get some people to stick to any (presumably piecemeal) postponement now. More the fault of the media’s coverage of the “road map” than the government themselves… but they have managed the public expectation setting horrifically, in my opinion.
You just can’t help yourself can you tpbiker??!! Am so grateful that for a change you haven’t called me an “anti-vaxxer”.
I can’t help myself because you are such an easy target I’m afraid. If you honestly think that link you posted is evidence of what you think it is you need to do yourself a favour and get off the internet as you are reading too much conspiracy nonsense.
If you think the government is eroding civil liberties etc etc fine, and you should be able to protest all you like without any criticism from anyone, but if you post stuff claiming to be fact when it’s not on a public forum you’ll rightly be called out on it.
Well it was “data not dates”. And we now have the data. It’s not stellar really. Cases and admissions turned over in Bolton before vaccination could have an effect. Like speed cameras, people change behaviour based on their perceived likelihood of being caught. In this case, I don’t think that’s such a bad thing.
As for vaccines, as ve said many times, benefit risk has to be balanced for every individual. There is now significant population level data on the benefits and the risks. Vaccines will be the path to global normal. It will take some time yet. More production and options will come on stream but the second half of the year from more players.
Not long back from first of several 40th birthday social gatherings for SIL, neither of us enjoyed social gatherings before Covid, but that felt pretty uncomfortable. Especially when completely unvaccinated SIL (because of fears of pregnancy issues if her late plan to have a baby works out) who works in a primary school is hugging all ~25 attending and then tries to hug me. She's helped us loads during the last ~15 months, but hug, no thank you!
I just want to get through my 2nd OxAZ jab this week without getting anything like the ~3 weeks of feeling like death warmed up after the first jab and to be able to make good cycling use of my ~1.5 weeks off work that begins two days after...
If Drakeford doesn't further relax rules for staying overnight in Welsh private homes so I can visit family and to be honest, if anything I expect him to tighten rules and I wouldn't blame him.
And know I'm not going to create hell at work when I return by refusing to share vans again during this Delta outbreak.
Its on Facebook it must be true!!
'Get Covid done"
Any way CG you should be paying more attention to the NHS data scrape (currently on hold thank you ICO) as that will truly **** up poor/sick people.
I think there will be a tipping point with mask wearing
I think we're already there. I pop mine on when I go to the local but take if off when I get to the second inner door when I see people milling about, at the bar etc without masks on.
I'm happy to wear a mask, check in with the NHS app and have table service but if nobody else is doing it I won't either.
I have a friend who refuses to get the vaccine. Late 40s, moderately fit, reckons that he has an 80% chance of getting no symptoms from catching Covid vs a 1/80,000 chance of getting blood clots from the vaccine.
Is he right? Should I not have bothered getting my second dose of AZ the other day?
Is he right? Should I not have bothered getting my second dose of AZ the other day?
I'm not sure.
What's the medical advice?
Is he right? Should I not have bothered getting my second dose of AZ the other day?
If he's read it on the internet, then yes, he might be correct (but highly unlikely).
But try asking your GP, who may give you a different answer. One based on actual facts.
Is it a trick question? Assumption is we will all get it in the end, it's how bad. And the first vax helps, but not as much as having the second.
That's a 1 in 5 chance of getting symptoms, and of those 1/5 whatever chance that is of those symptoms being serious. Long Covid I've seen 5-13.7% numbers in various places so on the conservative side, 1/20 get long Covid symptoms. so of the 1/5 = 4/20 that get it and show symptoms, 1 out of those 4 will have long covid.
Whereas (guesstimate) 1/2 get 'symptoms' from the vaxxination, ranging from a sore arm thru' a 'hangover' thru' quite severe flu-like thru' in the worst cases blood clots and sadly death. Yes, it happens as people on here know too starkly.
So 1/2 get symptoms = 40,000/80,000. 1/80,000 get blood clots, so 1 out of those 40,000 with symptoms get blood clots. 39,999/40,000 don't.
TLDR, I think you did the right thing getting the vaccine.
Or am I missing the point.
Is he right? Should I not have bothered getting my second dose of AZ the other day?
If I’m reading this correctly deaths with no pre-existing conditions in age group 0-44 was 101
And remember that any if they died up to 28 days after Covid diagnosis it’s still classed as Covid. So they could have died in a car accident but still put as Covid on death certificate.
And Yellow Card reported side effects from the vaccine
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-adverse-reactions
And if under 30.....
Looks like we apparently have six weeks in which to fully open up this summer or we will have to have restrictions until next spring, what's the deal with that then
Should I not have bothered getting my second dose of AZ the other day?
If you didn't get blood clots from the first dose you are even less likely to get them from the second, 10 times less risk according to a French doc.
« Les gens qui avaient eu à faire un caillot l’ont fait après la première dose. Il y a beaucoup moins de risques après la deuxième », affirme d’emblée Alain Lamarre, professeur et chercheur en immunologie et en virologie à l’Institut national de la recherche scientifique (INRS).
Les risques d’avoir un caillot sanguin à la suite de l’administration de la première dose du vaccin d’AstraZeneca varient entre 1 et 2 sur 100 000. Les risques sont beaucoup plus faibles lors de la deuxième dose. « Ils sont environ 10 fois plus faibles, soit 1 cas sur 1 million », indique M. Lamarre.
The French numbers for under 40 Covid deaths are now up to 354, including those with comorbidities.
The risks with Pfizer and Moderna are half to third of those with AZ in younger people we're told here. That 1/80 000 figure is therefore pessimistic.
I eventually went with a second AZ jab on the basis that the side effects are gnerally less marked the second time around. The first time I got a neck and head ache that put me off the bike for several weeks that started four days in.
If I were a parent I wouldn't be rushing to get my kids vaccinated, I'd wait a month and see how the first lot get on. Has there been a Covid death yet in a healthy 12-18 year old?
And remember that any if they died up to 28 days after Covid diagnosis it’s still classed as Covid. So they could have died in a car accident but still put as Covid on death certificate.
Here we go… can we not just delete this post, and this multiple account user, rather than go through all this nonsense again?
what’s the deal with that then?
What’s the deal with what? Could you post a link or a quote to help us understand who is saying that the decision comes down to those two options/scenarios? Ta.
If I were a parent I wouldn’t be rushing to get my kids vaccinated
It is a different balance for deciding about kids than yourself, for sure. But my 19 year is getting her first jab next week, and as soon as the Pfizer jab is being offered to the younger teens, by 14 year old (will probably be 15 by the time the opportunity arises) will get it as soon as possible.
I did’t have the jab myself to protect me from dying of Covid, there is much more to the decision whether to get vaccinated than that.
And remember that any if they died up to 28 days after Covid diagnosis it’s still classed as Covid. So they could have died in a car accident but still put as Covid on death certificate.
Here we go… can we not just delete this post, and this multiple account user, rather than go through all this nonsense again?
Errm multiple accounts?
Why would I delete true facts?
And how’s it nonsense? I look at all sides lots fact and plenty fiction and make my decisions and don’t shoot down anyone for making there own choices Unlike you.
Do your own research
All above is from the Government FACT
And for every yellow card report..how many’s not reported?
And how’s it nonsense?
If someone dies in circumstances involving an accident, violence or suspicious circumstances, the case is referred to a coroner for investigation. A post-mortem examination is carried out and usually an inquest is held. The Coroner's Court hears all the evidence and follows legal rules of evidence when deciding the causes of death. It is extremely unlikely that a coroner would find that someone was involved in a traffic accident, or was the victim of violence, because of having COVID-19 or a positive COVID-19 test -- so they would not mention COVID-19 on the death certificate. This applies to any death caused by an accident, violence, poisoning, or other external causes.
Even if in an unusual case a death certificate mentioned both COVID-19 and a traffic accident (or other external causes), the World Health Organisation (WHO) rules for coding deaths mean that the traffic accident would be identified as the underlying cause of death in our data.
But 101 deaths in age 0-44 with no underlying illnesses? https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/deaths
So they could have died in a car accident but still put as Covid on death certificate.
Not quite correct, I believe, but happy to be put right.
Deaths within 28 days of a positive test are the deaths reported on the news daily, even if hit by a car. It is not taken from the official death certificate. You have to accept though that dying at day 29+, which is more likely if you are young and as treatment has improved, don’t get counted.
That number is heading towards 130,000 I think.
The ONS collects the actual cause of death from the death certificate, which is more accurate and will exclude the car crash scenario, and Covid deaths counted that way, where Covid is a factor in the death, are over 150,000
But 101 deaths in age 0-44 with no underlying illnesses?
Can you provide a link to that to save me trawling the ONS website in my phone.
What’s the deal with what? Could you post a link or a quote to help us understand who is saying that the decision comes down to those two options/scenarios? Ta.
It's in the Sunday telegraph and is via senior ministers and advisors.
Looks to me like the timeframe for that report and those figures is quite key:
Figures for COVID-19 deaths with no underlying health conditions are available on Table 5. This means where no other underlying condition was listed on the death certificate. This publication states that between March and June 2020, there have been 46,736 deaths involving COVID-19. 4,476 of these deaths had no pre-existing conditions.
So that's just the first 3 months of the pandemic then.
The second sentence there rather kicks the car accident theory into touch as well, as others have explained above.
Junoir age 23 is vaccinated too, Kelvin, by kids I meant under 18 which means you make the decision for them. Like you I'm happy to contributive to the collective good by getting vaccinated myslelf but if I had kids I'd like to be reassured by a million or so rather than the numbers in clinical trials.
I'm not going to argue about the 101 with no underlying health issues but I'd point out that with Pfizer or Moderna you're a looking at less than a fifth of that from vaccination if you vaccinate everyone from 12 to 44.
1) posting that so confidently and not signposting that it's only 3 months is pretty poor (or didn't you notice, bikeforfreedom?)
2) I'm in my forties, I had covid, I'm not dead. My lungs are ****ed though, and my heart races sometimes and I'm knackered all the time. I would have killed for a vaccine last March. Have your vaccines.
It’s in the Sunday telegraph
Thanks airvent. I read that at first as suggesting exactly what you summarised, but I’m not sure what they’re saying and what they’re suggesting are the same thing. I find it confusing. I think they are suggesting that we either open up during the summer break, or next spring… but if there is a chance we need to be “closed” over the winter, then why does not opening up over the summer increase rather than increase the chance of that? I think I’ve missed something.
Following on from the notion that we're all going to get it. And that severity is decreased either by vaccination or by previous infection. AND comparing the past 9 months infection rates between England and Scotland, is it not possible that opening up in the summer actually reduces the severity of a winter wave? In a way, it flattens out the peaks and troughs.
But doesn’t vaccinating as many people as possible while keeping infections down make being ‘open’ this winter more likely? Unless the thought is that letting as many people as possible catch it as soon as possible before they are vaccinated is the path to take? If so, that is the herd immunity via infection idea, again, even though we have vaccinations and a stretched health system. Do you’d think that’s what they’re suggesting (again)?
If so… I agree, that must be what they are thinking but not saying.
It’s also the only reason I can think of for the current government mess as regards masks (or no masks) for older teens in schools and colleges. If that is the case, it really is a case of no lessons learned over the last 18 months. Herd immunity by infection… just don’t say so to avoid being blamed for any possible fall out from that plan. Is that where we are? I don’t know.
I agree it's a confusing statement Kelvin. Does sound like its come from reliable sources though so not sure what to make of it. The issue is I don't think anyone has a handle on what we're ultimately aiming for anymore.
Agreed. Not sure the Telegraph are going to make it any clearer for us though.
It's a stretched health system suffering peaks and troughs of demand. I'm not arguing in favour of the approach but this is the "turning on and off the tap" methodology that's been in place for a year.
