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The law of unintended consequences is coming into play. In the parallel universe of foot and mouth – this is the contractor period. There is a general handle on what is going on, we’re still free styling it. Much good will be done, there will be gaffs that exacerbate the situation. We’re all going to stuff up at some point during this thin. It’s just trying not to do it spectacularly. New and interesting mistakes ok – hopefully small ones. Repeating the same ones is bad. We’re all only human..
Lyme Park, the big National Trust place near Stockport - that closed all its car parks, cafe, house etc on Friday but the grounds remain open for pedestrians because getting outside is good.
So now the pavements and cycle lane all along the main road are absolutely full of selfish ****s who've driven out there and parked as near to the gates as possible causing traffic chaos. As you say, unintended consequences.
Unrelated, I've just spoken to my Mum and she seems quite confused by it all now. She's in her early 70's (but otherwise in generally good health) but not sure if shes allowed to leave the house or be isolated. Shops near her are all offering special opening for older people so she's like "well if they're offering that, maybe I am allowed out...?"
That said, she made the mistake of going to one of the first "special hours" and it was like a war zone and she got very distressed by it all. She's OK for food and things at the moment but I doubt it's a good idea for me to go and stay / help because I could be asymptomatic but she could easily be badly affected if she got it. So neither me nor my sister can go and visit her - just feel a bit powerless.
dazh - I'm breaking my self-imposed purdah from this thread as your teen daughter doesn't want to listen.
This article might help her to understand how the virus spreads and how it attacks the human body; sure, it takes a very pessimistic view but it may cause her to stop & think.
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/03/the-story-of-a-coronavirus-infection.html
A thought - given the obvious concerns about safe distancing recommendations being ignored by many people, what about 'approved people' broadcasting a standardised message by loudhailer in public places?
Approved people could be police or designated council employees; standardised message to be produced by gov.
Lyme Park, the big National Trust place near Stockport – that closed all its car parks, cafe, house etc on Friday but the grounds remain open for pedestrians because getting outside is good.
Corona and Lyme?
B'dum tish
Aye, put for a 5 mile run along the path through golf courses/dunes, it's bloody heaving, it's my usual quiet route....
As is town centre.
Lockdown needed.
Although not perfect and some people are dicks, there is a huge amount of positive change. My workplace has gone from 3500 mainly onsite workers to a skeleton crew of 120 to keep vital systems running with everyone else working from home. That is an enormous number of reduced contacts from train, bus commutes and in the office. Personally I've only been out for running and walking from my doorstep and to the supermarket once.
It's a risk and numbers game, the difficult part is that it will take 10+ days for impact of changes to play through. If the current measures don't work I think we'll be straight into a 14/21 day total movement ban as a firebreak measure
A thought – given the obvious concerns about safe distancing recommendations being ignored by many people, what about ‘approved people’ broadcasting a standardised message by loudhailer in public places?
Approved people could be police or designated council employees; standardised message to be produced by gov.
The Government don't know what the message is either.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/10-days-that-changed-britains-coronavirus-approach
All sorts of allegations in there about who is controlling things (most leading right back to Dominic Cummings).
If the current measures don’t work I think we’ll be straight into a 14/21 day total movement ban as a firebreak measure
I think that is where we should be right now as it is coming so lets get it done now and buy some time and save some lives. Joris is doing what he accused Corbyn of for months (dither and delay)
Can you believe it, an ice cream van has just pulled up outside and 4-5 sets of kids and parents are queuing up. Wheres the brains?
We're even isolating parcels in the front porch for 24 hours now, then carrying them out the back, opening them and putting the cardboard straight in recycling bin then washing our hands under the outside tap before coming into the house with the new item. It may seem extreme but I'm asthmatic and Mrs K has Lupus.
I am going to admit that I was one of the "its just a flu" people although we did take all the precautions ahead of when they became mandatory because of the above, but looking at the Italy reports we all need to be taking this very seriously, as we are going lose loved ones.
We’re even isolating parcels in the front porch for 24 hours now
Does the virus actually survive that long on inanimate objects?
We’re doing “next day” for our quarantine box. 24 hours is playing it extra safe.
Hmm… I’m changing to Kryton’s approach:
…viable virus could be detected up to three hours later in the air, up to four hours on copper, up to 24 hours on cardboard and up to two to three days on plastic and stainless steel.
I've read most of this thread, most of the lockdown bike ride thread, which are probably the sources (or links to) of most of what I know/think I know about it. Have been in Wales, the middle of nowhere last week, and returned home now back to an E. Kent seaside town. Been given option to WFH. Wasn't keen, earlier last week but expected to be in the minority. Yesterday I was starting to want to WFH but found out nobody else is. That and the diverse opinions on here, the indecisive government, I'm finding it difficult to know what to do for the best. Will probably go in Monday for a chat with work, and setup stuff to help work from home.
Will probably go in Monday for a chat with work
Please think of others, and don't.
Anyway, good news content from Snopes:
– China has closed down its last coronavirus hospital. Not enough new cases to support them.
– Doctors in India have been successful in treating Coronavirus. Combination of drugs used: Lopinavir, Retonovir, Oseltamivir along with Chlorphenamine. They are going to suggest same medicine, globally.
– Researchers of the Erasmus Medical Center claim to have found an antibody against coronavirus.
– A 103-year-old Chinese grandmother has made a full recovery from COVID-19 after being treated for 6 days in Wuhan, China.
– Apple reopens all 42 china stores,
– Cleveland Clinic developed a COVID-19 test that gives results in hours, not days.
– Good news from South Korea, where the number of new cases is declining.
– Italy is hit hard, experts say, only because they have the oldest population in Europe.
– Scientists in Israel likely to announce the development of a coronavirus vaccine.
– 3 Maryland coronavirus patients fully recovered; able to return to everyday life.
– A network of Canadian scientists are making excellent progress in Covid-19 research.
– A San Diego biotech company is developing a Covid-19 vaccine in collaboration with Duke University and National University of Singapore.
– Tulsa County’s first positive COVID-19 case has recovered. This individual has had two negative tests, which is the indicator of recovery.
– All 7 patients who were getting treated for at Safdarjung hospital in New Delhi have recovered.
– Plasma from newly recovered patients from Covid -19 can treat others infected by Covid-19.
FoD is the busiest I’ve ever seen it, full of groups of obviously non-cohabitants clutching maps and not saying hello when you pass.
We need barricades at the bottom of Littledean Hill. Joking.
If you can wfh then please do.
I have to go in some days because of my role but I am planning on being in a lab which has good air handling and will be minimising any time spent in the office.
have told all my line reports to do the same and basically I don't care about the hours they work, just get the work done they need to on site and then get out
Will probably go in Monday for a chat with work, and setup stuff to help work from home.
Phone work instead and stay at home. If you need to go in to collect anything why not get someone else to get it ready for you so you can run in & grab.
My job can’t be done at home but I’m going back in on Tuesday after 2 weeks leave (a snowboarding trip that didn’t happen). We’re on reduced staff, from maybe 15 in the building usually down to 4 or 5. And only 3 of us at a time mingling. Although handover between shifts will be a bit of an issue, as 3 of us come in to replace the offgoing shift.
Friston was heaving with walkers and riders and a few groups of families ☹️ Seemingly not understanding social distancing.
Ended up binning a walk with the parents today, the park was going to be far too busy.
I had thought about the quarantine of parcels thing, specifically with regards to food delivery. How on earth can you be expected to quarantine all the stuff that needs to go straight in the fridge/freezer?
I just chucked it in there, there's limits to what is practically possible. As a man with ocd, I keep telling myself it's a virus, not nuclear waste.
If anyone needs some light relief I highly recommend this twitter feed.
https://twitter.com/Pepys_Diaries/status/1241107411592785921?s=20
This is good too
https://twitter.com/MarkFrancois12/status/1241258162650525699?s=19
https://twitter.com/MarkFrancois12/status/1241254756103970816?s=19
Feels like a bank holiday with the number of people around. Local ice-cream place open and place rammed with families and elderly couples. I know most people are stupid but this takes the biscuit. Or the Flake, if you will.
Wandered into town earlier to get some bits of food and it was busy, slightly less busy than a normal Saturday but still surprising.
definitely limited observance of distancing.
we will be locked down within 2 weeks at the most
The lockdown has to happen this week, i'm guessing it'll be announced by Wednesday at the very latest
Malham earlier...
dazh
...I’ve now had several heated discussions with my 15 year old daugher about whether she should be allowed to meet up with her mates....
It's her right, ain't it? Surpasses everyone else's. don't it? 🙂
I'd tell her go ahead, but she's living in a tent out the back so she doesn't kill anyone in the household.
Oh. and toilet needs? Here's a bucket.
Lockdown needs to happen Monday
Lockdown needs to happen Monday
Lockdown needed to happen about 2 weeks ago!
Disheartening to hear this is so commonplace. Solo walk on the Downs near Eastbourne. As soon as I got close to the car parks it was mobbed with people. Most actively keeping their distance but still large numbers of groups all huddled together. Doggy walkers all getting together why their pets sniff each other arses. Passing people who obviously weren't going to make the slightest effort to give me space so I ended up jumping up verges. I hope they know something I don't.
Maybe it’s just me but I’d rather see wealth spread out. I think it fundamentally unfair that generation after generation get handed vast inheritance they have not earned whilst others go poor. I know of at least 3 people who are close to me who will in the not too distant future become multi millionaires when they inherit family wealth. It’s not even money their own parents earned, as they themselves inherited it.
Sorry - derailing a bit as I know I'm too late for this reply. However, I doubt whether multi-millionaires pay substantial inheritance tax as their "wealth managers" will cosy it all away in trusts and other such. Unless that law changed massively, that'll remain the case IMO
Sorry – derailing a bit as I know I’m too late for this reply. However, I doubt whether multi-millionaires pay substantial inheritance tax as their “wealth managers” will cosy it all away in trusts and other such. Unless that law changed massively, that’ll remain the case IMO
I was speaking with my Brother in Law earlier, whose a Hedge Fund manager and he thinks after this week its the end of Capatalism as we know it and this time everyone will be in it together
B & Q was absolutely mobbed today - no one keeping their distance from each other. I went to Screwfix instead
Comes to something when you go for a quiet walk in a local park and you can’t even get away from that Corona rubbish there!
Interesting to read what others are doing regards to quarantine things like post, parcels, food etc. I've got 2 spray bottles in the garage, one with a diluted bleach solution and 1 with ~70% ethanol. I use one or the other depending on the item to be sanitized.
Would be good to read what others are doing..
and this time everyone will be in it together
https://twitter.com/colmuacuinn/status/1241402664208007169?s=21
In Italy, someone is dying of this every two minutes. They die alone without their friends and family being able to visit them. They do not have access to medical care that may have saved them, because of the volume of people who are ill. Their bodies are travelling in army trucks to hastily built temporary crematoriums. Italian health care professionals plea with the UK to learn the lesson and stop the spread now. They are ignored by millions of plucky Brits who just instinctively know that things will be different here, because we are British.
STAY AT HOME
Almost 800 deaths and 6,500 new diagnosed cases in the last 24 hours in Italy.
Simply unbelievable.
Yet cretins like certain people on here still claim it's an over reaction
Let’s not get political about this, so please don’t comment about who this is from… but it is the sensible next step for the government to take:
https://twitter.com/lisanandy/status/1241440460859674624?s=21
B & Q was absolutely mobbed today – no one keeping their distance from each other.
One last hurrah before we all go into isolation. One of the most ideologically right leaning conservative governments we have had in years is going to pay the nations wages, the pubs have been shut. Still we think it's an extended national holiday.
the end of Capatalism as we know it
and
One of the most ideologically right leaning conservative governments we have had in years is going to pay the nations wages,
Now, I don't know much about these things but I heard someone else refer to the end of Capitalism the other day, so decided this afternoon to educate myself a little.
The first bit I get - the retail & business spend of workers wages that props up the capitalist ability to earn and grow profit, in turn paying some into workers wages and the cycle continues - is gone because those business are not going to exist and the number of workers greatly minimised.
But the second bit? A conservative government is fundamentally a capitalist government right? So, if after all this shakes out what happens? Are they not suitable? Do they defer to 70's levels of Thatcherite policy to nationalise BA, Virgin Rail, and Clinton Cards - for example - and become a government seeking to grow business for a sell off in say, 20 years? Do we therefore go backward politically?
Sorry to get political after I expressly bemoaned the fact previously, but I'm interested to know how a capitalist government manages the demise of its ideology outside of no 10's front door.
Am just interested in the results that come out when we get a simple use at home serological test.
I reckon the numbers are going to shock a lot of people
Some insight into the testing dilemma in this article EUobserver article on testing
I also read elsewhere France have around 1500 patients in intensive care with 50% of those under 60.
The Italy numbers don't look great, any signs of levelling out beyond the headline numbers?
Aaaaand...change of tack by the National Trust. I thought it was a bit iffy of them to make entry free - was always going to result in people just not being able to resist a freebie and behaving irresponsibly as we’ve seen this weekend. Welsh mountain rescue dude on the radio just now saying Snowdon was as busy as a typical bank holiday weekend. Go Brits. Jesus wept...
The first bit I get – the retail & business spend of workers wages that props up the capitalist ability to earn and grow profit
Only partly right. They're both interconnected obviously, but it's not just demand, it's also the labour. If no one can do the work (as many currently can't) then the system collapses even if demand exists.
But the second bit? A conservative government is fundamentally a capitalist government right?
It's doesn't matter what they are. Events are driving this and they have no control over them (other than to carry on and allow millions to die). As I said quite a few pages back, if the market doesn't exist, then neither does capitalism. Obviously they will want to return to business as usual once the virus threat passes, but even if it's a short term disruption it's still going to be very difficult. The global debts, collapse in finance systems, and decimation of businesses is going to prevent simply rewinding the clock.
And that's without even considering the politics of it all. Now that people can see that everything they've been told for decades about there not being enough money is a lie, they'll demand changes, especially in the light of the suffering they've had to endure in order to get through this.
I also read elsewhere France have around 1500 patients in intensive care with 50% of those under 60.
Correct, it was on the news a few minutes ago. It's confirming a trend I mentioned a few pages back and we don't know what the survival rate of the younger people in intesive care will be yet as the victims are in intensive care for "weeks" according to a nurse who videoed a patient.
Edit: and Institut Pasteur is moderating an American report on the survival of the virus in aerosols saying their real world tests don't match the American results obtained with artificial aerosols. The American results are somewhat alarming claiming the virus remains in the air for 3 hours whereas Institut Pasteur claims fall out in a few minutes.
Great response from the Bannatyne Gym. Quick, clear, concise 10/10
Unlike the Camping and Caravaning Club which are keeping sites open, but closing communal areas (including toilet blocks) and not offering refunds for caravans. I can see an interesting phone conversation is going to play out on Monday morning. But then again, should you expect anything better from an organisation who's head honcho has the title of Director General? FFS.
Following guidance issued by the Government on 20 March 2020, The Bannatyne Group has closed its Health Club and Spas with immediate effect. Our Hotels remain open. This closure is temporary and we will reopen as soon as the Government allows us.
In relation to your membership, we will action the following changes on your behalf; you do not need to do anything :
We will freeze your membership free of charge with immediate effect and not debit your account further. We will credit your first payment after we reopen with the value of remaining days from March when we reopen.
If you have already paid to freeze your membership, we will credit the amount back to you when we reopen.
Annual payers will have the period of closure credited to the end of their membership.
Inevitably, there will be a delay in dealing with the volume of queries but be rest assured, we will endeavour to address these, in the shortest possible time frame.
We will be doing regular updates on our Social Media channels as well as via our Bannatyne App , so please ensure you follow us and download the app.
Additionally, we will also be providing regular updates via email and on our website: bannatyne.co.uk
Whilst we are closed, the Les Mills on demand classes will be uploaded to our App next week, in an effort for people to stay healthy and enjoy the benefits of regular exercise. We want to help our members during these difficult and unprecedented times. You can download the Bannatyne App in anticipation here: bannatyne.co.uk/health-club/bannatyne-app
For the most current information which can provide further advice on the Coronavirus please visit : bannatyne.co.uk/covid-19, where our FAQ sheet is regularly updated.
Thank you for your custom and patience during these difficult times.
We will look forward to seeing you back in the Clubs, when we are open.
Stay safe.
The Bannatyne Team
Might be worthwhile making sure our kids know where to find the wills and Powers of Attorney, bank, and other documents.
And how to arrange a funeral...
My mum has over the last 2 weeks has told me where things like that are and the contents of the wills should the worst happen to them, and me. Then reminded me that......
The family tree dies with me currently!
How’s that for morbid!
But the second bit? A conservative government is fundamentally a capitalist government right?
Giving some context - think less about the over all politics and more about the over all feel of the current government pre virus. It's not bashing the politics it's about people's ability to register something never before experienced is happening.
I did think of putting a couple of sentences in about the world wide toll of virus. I could have left out the government reference and just gone for wages - probably enough without icing it.
People will have had a multitude or reasons for doing what they did, well intentioned, selfish, completely oblivious, partially aware, miss informed...
We could probably do another round of the merits of Boris Johnson. Really though it's more important to work out how to make the virus control measures relevant and relatable to people. Either that or just go again for the simple and informative words of The Parkie from Viz - No XXXXing Nothing.
How’s that for morbid!
Sorry to read that
Puregym have done something similar to Bannatynes. I think they've handled it well - happy to keep working out there in the future.
Anytime gyms have set the same email out today.
Great response from the Bannatyne Gym. Quick, clear, concise 10/10
He was on R5 this morning - sensible and clear
Puregym have done something similar to Bannatynes.
Nothing from Virgin.
One of the possible good outcomes from this pandemic (once it is over/finalised/under full control) is the amount of chug nuggets who will find themselves completely ostracised from versing any opinion except on their own limited social media channels (of which i have no issues with them being heavily censored)
Devils Dyke NT posted an advisory to say chose another destination as todays record number of visitors made social distancing difficult.
I can see lock down coming, not helped by the key worker letter i've just received (sorry probably 2 + 2 making 5 here)
Jetts Gym has done similar, immediate freeze on fees and free access to app content you used to have to pay for. Good work imo.
So economics 101..someone educate me as i know nothing about this kind of thing..
When this is all done and dusted, whats stopping the financial powers that be just getting together and resetting the clock back to before this all kicked off.
Obviously you can't so that..But I'm intrigued as to why not..
Can someone please explain to me in 2 paragraphs, and in terms a monkey could understand
Ta
The Gym Group did exactly the same as Bannatyne's. I'd already cancelled my DD for them as I couldn't see me going in for a few months but a quick email to them and they've agreed I can rejoin for free and with a partial credit when they reopen.
I'm also expecting a full lock-down on Monday, the general public have just proven themselves to be untrustworthy of following simple instructions and drastic measures are required.
Get the lockdown done.
This is beyond a joke now.
Our local gyms have done the same, freeze on payments and no rejoining fee.
Can't seem to find anything about our Cineworld Unlimited apart from a notice to cancel.
Caravan Club sites are all showing open and saying toilet blocks open but I think we won't be using the camper for the near future
And how to arrange a funeral…
Anyone know if there is now a prescribed method of disposing of the dead from the virus?
Only ask because wife and I have chosen a woodland burial at a site that would require transport across a couple of county boundaries although we could re-word to any local natural burial site.
Watching the reports from Italy they said that crematoria were overwhelmed so does that mean that all bodies have to be burned or are we still free to choose?
On one level it does not matter but if it is still an option that is what we would like.
Went past one of the local golf clubs today and it was rammed full or pensioners in groups.
At the other end the local Buckfast appreciation youth group is still meeting.
Went past one of the local golf clubs today and it was rammed full or pensioners in groups.
National Trust really didn't think through their policy of free access to all their outdoor spaces - just meant that thousands of people drove out to their nearest NT place. Peaks was rammed, Lyme Park was heaving (in spite of the car park being closed - people just parked on pavements and in the cycle lane). Really not helping anything. These will all be the same people who went to the pubs on Friday night for one last big social piss up.
People are frankly too stupid to be worth saving.
People are frankly too
stupidselfish to be worth saving.
I think calling them stupid is giving them benefit of doubt.
Bloody hope we lock down Wales ASAP. Bluestone has just announced its closure. Lots of people have been travelling down to West Wales to holiday homes and caravan parks. Utter madness. I'm looking at 7 days of at least 12 hours a day in ICU and recovery if it gets as bad as Italy who have been on a better lockdown than us.
Yep, drove past Storey Arms today and the queue to get up Pen Y Fan was unbelievable. Worse than a Bank holiday I'd say. This is not a free holiday, it's a national emergency!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-wales-519
Sadly, due to our ignorance, we are about to encounter a shit storm of epic proportions.
I'm doing my bit as are the folk on this thread. We need a lockdown from the Government ASAP but even that won't stop the horror show that's about to unfold. The signs were there...
Just got a message from a friend forwarding a notice.
The numbers won't be up to the minute accurate but when the notice was sent out there had been over 31000 people reported for breaking the quarantine and 350 people subsequently detained.
#crisiswhatcrisis
celticdragon
SubscriberMy mum has over the last 2 weeks has told me where things like that are and the contents of the wills should the worst happen to them, and me. Then reminded me that……
The family tree dies with me currently!
How’s that for morbid!
Not at all my friend same here.
Father died 21 years ago @ 61
Mother died 3 years ago @ 72
Wife died 6 months ago @ 52
I've sort of got used to death, it still hurts like hell but non of us can escape it.
TBH if this virus took me soon I'm not that botherd as most of my reason for living is gone 🙁
Relatively good news:
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/private-sector-allocates-hospital-capacity-nhs-a4393951.html
TBH if this virus took me soon I’m not that botherd as most of my reason for living is gone
Dude, that doesn’t sound like a good place you’re in right now. Please talk to a friend, loved one or a professional. Don’t be feeling like that on your own.
I second darcy. Please speak to someone, the Samaritans can be great. I’ve avoided posting in here, but this warrants a response. I’ll give you my phone number, just pm me.
really sorry to hear that MrOvershoot.
is it just me disappointed by the lack of conspiracy in this thread?
Just went back to read p.1, its been a v.long month
MrOvershoot
SubscriberNot at all my friend same here.
Father died 21 years ago @ 61
Mother died 3 years ago @ 72
Wife died 6 months ago @ 52I’ve sort of got used to death, it still hurts like hell but non of us can escape it.
TBH if this virus took me soon I’m not that botherd as most of my reason for living is gone 🙁
It's difficult fella. Just know there are plenty here that know you and will miss your voice. So keep the heid and stay strong. We'll all get through it together.
Gone into isolation myself since Thursday. Flat mate came in with a cough, so what else can you do. It's a worrying time for everyone. But people will need you in the weeks and months ahead. Just think of the people around you. I've a ridiculous about of family 70+ so if nothing else just think of the difference youll be able to make others if you're around.
Just remember though we'll get through it.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000gj5f/our-world-wuhan-life-under-lockdown
Hope I've linked this ok, just seen this on BBC news in the early hours
It's on BBC iPlayer -
Wuhan life under lockdown
Filmed in Wuhan in January and shows the extent of the isolation measures they needed to put in place to stop even more people dying.
Sobering viewing.
It's only 23 minutes long but, imo, if this was on at primetime 6pm then we'd have a far better chance for all of us.
Please take the time to watch and share