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Steve - just to bring your theory crashing down...a quick text....she says the of number people tested in each age group remains broadly the same. So even if EVERY child tested was positive that would only represent a very small part of the 1000% rise.
How does that work then? Some bloke in a dark alley doing swab tests for a fiver a go, or do you mean kids getting tested at the official test sites without having symptoms?
The latter I suspect.
I know of a few people who've been told to isolate by the NHS app but have no symptoms so no test. Due to work they do (trades, and self employed) they've faked symptons and got a test so they can go back to work.
I know that's not how it's meant to work but I understand why they'd do it
The positive rate of those tested in the last 24hrs has shot up from around 5% to over 50% literally overnight. Lots of scrabbling around trying to work out why.
I really really hope this turns out to be a mess-up at the lab, contaminated equipment etc. giving one day's duff results.
I really really hope this turns out to be a mess-up at the lab, contaminated equipment etc. giving one day’s duff results.
I think that is what they are hoping too!
Down to the last 10 as of Monday
Lessons with only one pupil in the class with the teacher, and everyone else at home, has stopped being unusual in my lad's school. Still... they're open... 🤷🏻
Our boy went back in (we had let him stay at home as all his dinner group either tested positive or were asked to self isolate, and the school were only taking lesson seating plans into account when identifying close contacts) as the mixed home/onsite learning just wasn't working... the teachers were failing (not their fault) to successfully teach to those present, and those at home... but when he went went back in, it turned out to be a bit of a ghost school, with even more pupils following along online instead of being onsite. What do you do? More importantly, what do schools do? The plans for this were clearly set out in September by the Dept for Education... but they have since abandoned them... and threatened schools and councils that attempt to follow those September plans. School are being treated poorly right now... they just can't do right in anyone's eyes... AND IT IS NOT THEIR FAULT.
or do you mean kids getting tested at the official test sites without having symptoms?
Self isolate means self isolate.
You can't leave the house UNLESS you have symptoms.
It's like saying you were just dropping the family off before taking the expired car to the MOT centre or driving to Barnard castle with reduced vision. So they are either going to a test site or a private GP, either way it's illegal unless they have symptoms when they have been instructed to self isolate.
So my mates Dave and Biba thought Biba had CV in March. Biba was really ill for a week, Dave took time off to look after her and take the kids to school.
No tests do so so positive results.
Now if that happened today the kids would be sent home and told not to get tested. If one of them got tested then one result, if instead they went for a private test there is a good chance all 4 would test +ve.
Due to work they do (trades, and self employed) they’ve faked symptons and got a test so they can go back to work.
No they can't.... it doesn't matter how many negative tests if you have been told to self isolate you can't leave the house and you can't go back to work.
If you're told to self-isolate by NHS Test and Trace or the NHS COVID-19 app:
self-isolate for 10 days from when you were last in contact with the person who tested positive for coronavirus
do not leave your home for any reason – if you need food or medicine, order it online or by phone, or ask friends and family to drop it off at your home
What to do when you get your test result
If you test negative (the test did not find coronavirus):keep self-isolating for the rest of the 10 days from when you were last in contact with the person who has coronavirus – as you could get symptoms after being tested
anyone you live with can stop self-isolating if they do not have symptoms
anyone in your support bubble can stop self-isolating if they do not have symptoms
Spot the flaw?
Steve – just to bring your theory crashing down…a quick text….she says the of number people tested in each age group remains broadly the same. So even if EVERY child tested was positive that would only represent a very small part of the 1000% rise.
That would be expected.
Those who do have symptoms will have been spreading it to family for a week by the time they have symptoms and another few days by the time they get results
If I was going to pay for a private test I'd do the whole family.. wouldn't you?
Lesson with only one pupil in the class with the teacher, and everyone else at home, has stopped being unusual in my lad’s school. Still… they’re open… 🤷🏻
but when he went went back in, it turned out to be a bit of a ghost school, with even more pupils following along online instead of being onsite. What do you do? More importantly, what do schools do? The plan’s for this were clearly set out in September by the Dept for Education… but they have since abandoned them… and threatened schools and councils that attempt to follow those September plans. School are being treated poorly right now… they just can’t do right in anyone’s eyes… AND IT IS NOT THEIR FAULT.
As I've said before, it's killing people and time people just stopped following orders because those orders are just a pyramid.
AND IT IS NOT THEIR FAULT.
No the fault lies at the top of the pyramid but still, there is a time to do as you're told and a time to break ranks.
On one hand this could domino upwards... it will be interesting to see what happens between Knan and the Govt.
Three in four boroughs in the city have registered an increase in Covid-19 cases, figures released last week from the Office of National Statistics show.
Kevin Courtney, joint general secretary of the National Education Union, said it supported Greenwich Council and the mayor in their call for schools to move to online learning.
He said: "The government should have been planning for this weeks ago.
"They have now started to recognise the blindingly obvious fact that transmission is happening in schools and that this can spread to families. But the government now needs to act.
"Much more is needed to control the virus in schools and to protect communities."
The issue here is the government did what this current one does and hijack narratives.
Boris and chums jumped on the narrative that most parents are going to murder or sexually abuse their children whilst promising free childcare and children would have mental health issues and a huge number commit suicide if not forced to go into school.
So, what's the alternative? Follow the rules .. wait until they are told to self isolate then lock the door to their rooms and change the bucket once a day and push some food under the door?
I'm not suggesting people would but that is what the government are saying we should do.
I think my kids schools have done an amazing job in the circumstances. It has been new for everyone, but they've adapted well.
No they can’t…. it doesn’t matter how many negative tests if you have been told to self isolate you can’t leave the house and you can’t go back to work.
I'm aware of that, and I'm not suggesting it's either a legal or sensible thing to do.
But I'm giving an example of people faking symptoms to get a test.
They shouldn't do it but if you're not getting paid if you don't work then it's something you may decide to do. Apps says you may have it, get tested, get a negative, ignore app and get on with things.
I’m aware of that, and I’m not suggesting it’s either a legal or sensible thing to do.
But I’m giving an example of people faking symptoms to get a test.
Well sensible is a different matter.
if you’re not getting paid if you don’t work then it’s something you may decide to do
Sounds much much more sensible than not having one and continuing to work!
Apps says you may have it, get tested, get a negative, ignore app and get on with things.
Just out of curiosity what happens to the App when you go to a test centre or hospital?
I know I turned off my location tracking when going to hospital as my mum tends to "follow me"
No they can’t…. it doesn’t matter how many negative tests if you have been told to self isolate you can’t leave the house and you can’t go back to work.
I’m aware of that, and I’m not suggesting it’s either a legal or sensible thing to do.
But I’m giving an example of people faking symptoms to get a test.
They shouldn’t do it but if you’re not getting paid if you don’t work then it’s something you may decide to do. Apps says you may have it, get tested, get a negative, ignore app and get on with things.
First, bin the app. Second as has been said if you are told to isolate a negative test result proves nothing, whats the point. In my case it was all easy as I got paid regardless, but getting a test is risky, if it comes back positive you'd have to isolate for longer!!
Boris and chums jumped on the narrative that most parents are going to murder or sexually abuse their children
God (and the forum) forgive me for defending Boris, but at no time has the government made any such statement, as we established yesterday this is your spin on the government's decision to prioritise education.
Not true.
There was a lot of government media spin about vulnerable kids needing to be looked after by being in school.
Then all kids.
Then the spin about their mental health, despite the only scientific studies showing child anxiety actually decreased with lockdown 1.0 and school closures.
Couldn't have parents not being economically productive so " won't somebody think of the children".
There was a lot of government media spin about vulnerable kids needing to be looked after by being in school
Hate to be the bearer of bad news but this isn't entirely government spin. There are plenty of kids out there for whom the school environment provides the only stability, routine, and in some cases decent hot meal some kids get.
However I agree - keeping kids in school also keeps those who can work at work. That's a main driving factor.
Well, my other half works at a school with lots of staff off after positive tests. Today the head got 200 kids and 25 staff into a room together. My other half was the only one wearing a mask. She had the windows open… other staff closed them. Bonkers.
Loum
Not true.
There was a lot of government media spin about vulnerable kids needing to be looked after by being in school.
Then all kids.
Then the spin about their mental health, despite the only scientific studies showing child anxiety actually decreased with lockdown 1.0 and school closures.
Which jumped on the back of the loonies that talk about child abuse and parents murdering kids
(which they don't seem to stop anyway - just target those perfectly OK)
Del
Hate to be the bearer of bad news but this isn’t entirely government spin. There are plenty of kids out there for whom the school environment provides the only stability, routine, and in some cases decent hot meal some kids get.
Erm, and when they got the chance for the hot meal they denied it to the kids....
Loum
Then the spin about their mental health, despite the only scientific studies showing child anxiety actually decreased with lockdown 1.0 and school closures.
See no-one ever mentions the kids for whom school is hell and what forcing them into what is essentially a prison does to their MH.
However I agree – keeping kids in school also keeps those who can work at work. That’s a main driving factor.
Doesn't really apply to secondary schools though ...
There was a lot of government media spin about vulnerable kids needing to be looked after by being in school.
Of course. But that isn't what Steve is saying is it?
Of course. But that isn’t what Steve is saying is it?
Yes, its exactly what I'm saying.
They piggybacked on the existing narrative and skirted around it but essentially they were implying children would be killed by parents etc.
Boris repeated (yesterday I think, saw the clip on news) "Children are safer in schools"
What exactly is he implying? Like Wittey babbling on about how kids have a low risk etc. but totally diverting from their teachers, parents and carers.
the government’s decision to prioritise education.
How have they prioritised education?
They cancelled the only important days in the entire 15 years of school life
Williamson has taken legal action to prevent schools switching to home learning, even when less than 1/2 the kids are actually in school.
Well, my other half works at a school with lots of staff off after positive tests. Today the head got 200 kids and 25 staff into a room together.
Why ???? Like ... WTF why?
My other half was the only one wearing a mask. She had the windows open… other staff closed them. Bonkers.
This sounds like the typical Covidiot ... "we're not scared look at us". I bet they were giving your OH the dirty looks as well for being so silly as to wear a mask in a room with 225 people.
Honestly this shows how borked we are.... not only is it cool to not wear a mask to protect others who aren't there but its even cooler to shove it in the face of anyone who does! Shows how hard you are!
essentially they were implying children would be killed by parents etc.
No. Nowhere near. At no point has the government - or any sane person, or indeed, any of the not so sane ones - suggested that the government has been pushing kids back into school because to quote you "most" parents will abuse or kill them.
I can tell you for certain that the hokey-cokey routine of schooling is definitely having a negative effect on pupils' mental health and anxiety levels.
Pupils isolating are worried that they are falling behind. Pupils still in school can be highly anxious, worrying about the impact of being asked to isolate. Parents are tied in knots trying to decide what is best for children/ the wider family, especially with Christmas fast approaching.
We simply cannot accommodate online learning AND face to face teaching, on a diminished staff, with all the other protocols ramping the already heavy workload.
Let alone the changing, and still unknown, requirements for examination awards this session. Pupils who aren't even in exam cohorts are starting to get twitchy as the have seen the car-crash last year, can sense it happening again, and think that they are next in the firing line.
Will there be an announcement tomorrow on the Tier status for the regions/cities/towns?
I had Flu once, and it was the most ill i've ever been outside of peritonitis from a burst appendix.
I have subsequently been dismissive of anyone with a 'touch' of flu, or with 'just' the flu. One thing i remember most clearly from it was understanding on a deep and spiritual level why this might kill you. Influenza will kick your arse from here to way over there.
I remain deeply concerned of experiencing Covid-19, and hope to avoid it altogether if at all possible.
Would i take the vaccine...?
https://imgur.com/gallery/4UY4Ll0
This is interesting (vitamin D):
Dexamethasone in the same structural steroid family as ‘D’, shares common VDR (vitamin-D-receptor)[3] and related gene pathways,[4] is artificial, and in some circumstances mitigates against COVID-19, albeit with variable side-effects. Dexamethasone is clearly a useful adjunct.
https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m3872/rr-5
I can tell you for certain that the hokey-cokey routine of schooling is definitely having a negative effect on pupils’ mental health and anxiety levels.
This, and if I genuinely thought it wasn't the case, I'd have my two at home right now.
5thElefant, that's not a peer reviewed article, it's a reply to one from an unqualified person at a vitamin research foundation
Not to say his links aren't vid, but it's not a Bmj article
I was reading that rapid response and the article it refers to yesterday, I think the jury is still out on vitamin d and covid.
However a lot of people in the uk are vitamin d deficient and should probably take it all winter. I have some in the cupboard I keep forgetting to take. 🙄
Edit- looked up the author of that rapid response- appears to be a nutrition/vitamin zealot so hardly unbiased.
It's looking as though some tier 3 regions could be put into a tier 2 (in the Northwest).
Now I understand this would be great for moral and the pubs, cafes and restaurants. But, Really, before Christmas. Madness.
Even though I live in an area that's virtually been in a lockdown or tier 3 except a few short weeks at the end of summer, imo to do this at this time would be putting such strain on the already pressured NHS.
No. Nowhere near. At no point has the government – or any sane person, or indeed, any of the not so sane ones – suggested that the government has been pushing kids back into school because to quote you “most” parents will abuse or kill them.
This is the exact narrative.
Millions of families are suffering with poverty and outright destitution but loony's are going on about child abuse at home.
What exactly do you think Boris is implying to the red top paper readers when he say's "children are safer in school" on one hand whilst refusing to feed them unless they go into school?
Picking the exact words is simply playing into their hands. They infer but then deny they meant spending £350M on the NHS or an "oven ready deal" meant a trade deal... or that they have never had a herd immunity policy.
Other than the latter where Gove is saying Vallance was lying and they didn't take the strategy were just "advised" they have carefully chosen words to fuel the red top paper readers.
It doesn't matter what YOU think ... Boris doesn't give a toss what you think he gives a toss about his popularity and approval with the red top readers and that is the message being given out.
Is it today we should get an announcement on Tier changes?
Boris doesn’t give a toss what you think he gives a toss about his popularity and approval with the red top readers and that is the message being given out.
There is a significant overlap between the type of people who would be very pissed off with any change to the Christmas arrangements and those more likely to vote for him. So let's see if he does the right thing.
Again, if he'd allowed schools to shut a week/10 days early, that would have significantly decreased the risk to elderly contacts by the 25th.
Is there any further evidence yet that the 'new variant' is behind the southeast surge, or is that just Matty Hancock jumping the gun and trying to look for excuses?
This is the exact narrative.
Millions of families are suffering with poverty and outright destitution but loony’s are going on about child abuse at home.
The only person who has brought child abuse into this thread is you. It's certainly not been mentioned by the government as you have stated.
I'm not disagreeing with any of your other points about poverty, mental health, counter-intuitive rules and regulations.
Two new cases in Sydney today: in the posh bit too.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-16/two-new-covid-19-cases-in-nsw/12991234
There seems to be some outrage on Facebook that cabin/flight crew aren’t quarantining/socially distancing enough on arrival - we’ve had a few cases now traced back to that. Struggling to get upset about that myself
Soo the government say we should isolate before seeing relatives before xmas, with 9 days to go, but the isolation period is 10 days!?!
Found the answer to my own question.
Review today announcement tomorrow.
The only person who has brought child abuse into this thread is you. It’s certainly not been mentioned by the government as you have stated.
Absolutely this, You're the only person I've heard even mentioning this Steve, lots of (rightully) concern about kids not being fed or schooled at home, but it's only you that's went for the full scale child abuse line.
Soo the government say we should isolate before seeing relatives before xmas, with 9 days to go, but the isolation period is 10 days!?!
Yet schools stay open. It's all nonsense... as we fully expected it to be... hence deciding here back in September that with a teacher and a pupil at two different schools, that there was no way we could safely see anyone this Christmas... that early the government were clearly heading to a Christmas where only their families could safely get together at Christmas... the joined up thinking of closing state school buildings early enough for our kids to see their grandparents has never entered their collective minds.
I alluded to that yesterday @kelvin but it didn't seem like it'd be particularly well met. It's clearly an incredibly difficult balancing act for even a competent government to do with regards to lockdowns, schools opening, and managing the xmas period. However, private school kids are all safely at home isolating now....state schools are open so plebs like me can't use the childcare excuse for not going to work.
I’m in tier 2 (but not going well!). My local pub has just closed its doors until next year. Problems included people from Tier 3 coming down & lying about where they were from, people refusing to follow COVID Rules & people abusing staff.
An interesting take on school closures:
https://ieureka.blogs.bristol.ac.uk/2020/12/15/covid19-should-schools-close-early-for-christmas/
I've read it. It's bobbins.
I'll give you one little quote to consider...
Rates have recently fallen among adults in England, despite schools remaining open and secondary school rates increasing. The evidence suggests low levels of virus transmission within schools.
Read it a few times.
140,000 people vaccinated so far according to Nadhim Zahawi
They’ve had the first of 2 required doses. I hope they don’t think they’re immune already, and change their behaviour in the basis of that. They need to wait until 7 days after the second dose.
Well, our PCN’s proposed vaccine sites have been torpedoed by the CCG because of new requirements based on the two adverse reactions. So we’re back to square one, looking for a site for our patients.
bit of a shit show if I’m honest
There is no evidence that teachers are more at risk of death from COVID19, and infection rates among teachers do not seem higher than other professions.
ONS data from the first wave of the COVID19 epidemic in the UK showed that teachers were not at increased risk of death from the disease compared to other professionals.
What when schools were closed teachers didnt get covid...**** me thats the opening bit on infection in teachers...who are these clowns?
They cite lots of reasonable data... but the arguments they build/infer from them just read as total bobbins to me. Very worrying... as that's their field...
http://www.bristol.ac.uk/integrative-epidemiology/
"Leading the development of causal analysis methods for application in population-based and clinical health sciences."
Hopefully they are right... but the way they use "evidence" smacks of picking a position, and trying to back it up. Anyway, hopefully they are right... because most schools are staying "open" (despite so many kids now learning from home, and therefore still suffering the negative effects they attribute to closing school buildings).