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Just had a text from my GP's surgery. They are having to close one site and run the other in the mornings only after 5 staff tested positive yesterday. That's going to be fun for the Track-and-Trace team.
Just been announced that wales is going into a full Stay At Home lockdown on the 28th December.
Dexamethasone in the same structural steroid family as ‘D’
Steroids do a LOT more than bind to the Vitamin D receptor and activate or suppress multiple nuclear signalling factors. There appears to be reasonable evidence to conduct a randomized placebo controlled trial to establish efficacy or otherwise.
I take my (generic) multivitamins. Vitamin D is one of those. I'm not a perfect adherent.
Review today, leak tonight, announcement tomorrow.
FTFY.
docrobster
Free MemberI was reading that rapid response and the article it refers to yesterday, I think the jury is still out on vitamin d and covid.
However a lot of people in the uk are vitamin d deficient and should probably take it all winter. I have some in the cupboard I keep forgetting to take. 🙄
I think the main thing about vitamin d is that it's cheap and there's no likely downsides to taking a supplement. (you can have ill effects from really high levels but that's very rare). And as you say even if there's no covid benefits at all, there may be others for a lot of people in this dark island.
Sometimes, you need to prove a benefit to make it worth taking something but others, not so much.
Also,
"There's a new and deadly disease doing the rounds"
"Oh no"
"But it seems like you can improve your odds with a good and balanced diet, minimal hygeine, and regular exercise and a healthy lifestyle"
"OH NO"
I never expected a connection between Corona and John Major's love life.
https://twitter.com/Edwina_Currie/status/1339155190092607489
The only person who has brought child abuse into this thread is you. It’s certainly not been mentioned by the government as you have stated.
With respect that's not true as Loum said earlier.
Even more on the "back to school thread" but this is repeatedly brought up as a reason kids should be in school even by sensible STW'ers.
(Maybe a few want to raise their heads now?)
I’m not disagreeing with any of your other points about poverty, mental health, counter-intuitive rules and regulations.
So this is the fundamental... your statement was "putting education first" or something. (I'm not going back to quote it because exact words are unimportant and it's not a witch hunt).
This is the fundamental I'm challenging....They wrecked the GCE's that are the end of the day are the only really important days in the entire time spent at school. If that's on a sliding scale then the last week before XMAS has got to be near the bottom.
So, what's the big deal? Why are kids being sent to covid infected schools this week?
It’s certainly not been mentioned by the government as you have stated.
So again, what does Boris mean by "Safer at school"?
Forget the bollox... what does he mean by this to most people?
Is he referring to ROSPA stats? He probably is but that's NOT what he wants people to think in exactly the same way his "oven ready deal" apparently never explicitly referred to a trade deal but to the political declaration.
or if you prefer answer the other way, why are schools teaching classes of 1-2 children (or 10 min my childs case) why not just send secondary kids home for online classes they are old enough to look after themselves?
Why is there the binary self isolate or go into school and no other option?
It's not like my boy has any friends left in school, all close his friends are self isolating so what is he getting out of physical attendance. Assuming they are doing anything of value moving the entire class online is not only more efficient but the fairest?
I never expected a connection
You've got to hand it to her though... that's pretty funny.
or if you prefer answer the other way, why are schools teaching classes of 1-2 children (or 10 min my childs case) why not just send secondary kids home for online classes they are old enough to look after themselves?
That's the question I'd like answered. While it is true that having all kids in school, in a Covid safe environment is what we should aim for... what we really have (except in fee paying schools and in areas where the local authorities and schools are defying the government) in much of the country now is schools struggling to simultaneously teach on site and at home... with students at home getting a poor experience, and students on site risking catching the virus just in time for the first contact with their grandparents for months.
How do you use that killfile again folks?
If that’s on a sliding scale then the last week before XMAS has got to be near the bottom.
This x100, as if you are going to convince kids to put some hard work a week before Xmas.
@Nobeer You've read my mind
I'm sorry, I'm done with stevextc, so many valid points lost behind the other guff
Bollox. Have found this thread a great source of info (mainly!) this year. Just wanted to vent today. My mum (80+) is in hospital with covid (she acquired it in hospital!). Tested positive 11 day ago and only in past 24h started with symptoms, we thought she was one of the lucky asymptomatic ones.
Currently O2 at 85% and on supplementary oxygen, but next few days are gonna be a cliff hanger.
An absolute crap end to 2020 after we had been so very very careful not to let her catch it at home.
Much hugs to you CHB, lots of folks that age have came through, fingers crossed.🤞🏻
Sorry to hear that. Am hoping she pulls through.
Things are better now that they were so hoping for you.
Cheers NoBeer.
Been a rollercoaster season finale month in a roller coaster year.
In my work and local life have been working on covid non stop since March (retail, home delivery etc) and doing lots on local food bank stuff, all the time juggling mum.
was elated two weeks ago thinking "oh good she is in hospital so will be front of queue for vaccine" then week last Saturday got the call so was on edge all week waiting for symptoms.
Monday this week she was fine and we were planning discharge home on sat 19th. Then this afternoon the call to say suddenly O2 dropped to 85%.... so a worrying few days ahead.
Right off to sort out Brexit supply chain stuff.... can we just friggin can 2020 and Brexit please? Asking for a friend.
They are doing a chest xray this afternoon in case its a bacterial infection, but that sounds unlikely. If it is covid related O2 depletion then steroid treatment starts.
Hard times. Good luck to her and all of you.
All the best CHB. Nothing more useful I feel I can say
Kelvin
That’s the question I’d like answered. While it is true that having all kids in school, in a Covid safe environment is what we should aim for… what we really have (except in fee paying schools and in areas where the local authorities and schools are defying the government) in much of the country now is schools struggling to simultaneously teach on site and at home… with students at home getting a poor experience, and students on site risking catching the virus just in time for the first contact with their grandparents for months.
I don't think either are getting the optimum experience (or close).
I don't necessarily agree the aim for should be for all kids in school with or without Covid as I know it was a damaging experience for me and many thousands of others.
That aside ...
as if you are going to convince kids to put some hard work a week before Xmas.
or not - but why does it even matter? What is worth killing people for?
Private schools already broke up.... why is that acceptable but not state schools?
WTF is SO important about this week we send kids into Covid infected schools with the only way out being self isolate for XMAS?
Joking a bit but do we need to block the chimney... or will Santa have a list?
CHB... that's crap, sorry.
R4 this morning went to a school. Kids all sounded fed up, some appreciation of schooling and how it sets you up for life.
Some kids having to repeatedly self isolate due to friennds testing positive and missing weeks of lessons.
Pastoral lady gave a bleak veiw with reports of increased self harm, depression and talk of suicide. But she did quantify this was more likely a cry for help
Tough times, keep an eye on your kids.
My kids are fed up of the teaching situation, friends isolating etc. Eldest definitely stressing around A levels next year.
BUT they were even more fed up in lockdown one, when they had no social interaction with any friends when schools were completely shut.
Seems to be the view of most of our white, middle aged, middle class contacts.
Just reporting our experience, not trying to suggest what the solution is because I don't know
My daughter's school closed for Xmas last week. They had 32 teaching and support staff isolating or tested positive so couldn't safely operate in person. Went to online learning Thursday so nobody would lose out too much
Cases really gathering pace now and hospital admissions on the up again 🙁
Chb that's crap, as Graham said treatment is much better now, going she will be home for Xmas
@stcolin be glad you’ve already made the hard choices for Christmas… many others will have to face a hard choice to abandon their plans when the look at the numbers next week.
Many will face the choice, but I don't think they will change their plans.
Sorry to see that CHB.
My kids are fed up of the teaching situation, friends isolating etc. Eldest definitely stressing around A levels next year.
BUT they were even more fed up in lockdown one, when they had no social interaction with any friends when schools were completely shut.
Yeah so why force kids into school until they have to self isolate, especially as of today that means XMAS day.
What's the point for the kids when most of the class are not there ?
What's the point for the teaching staff ... trying to run 1-10 people in a class and 25-30 remote?
Why not just close the school building ... get Boris to dig into his pockets to feed the ones that can't and let them have a XMAS?
Another 2 positives today, unknown number told to self isolate ... one a member of staff and one a pupil.
Given the vanishingly low numbers that's quite significant.
The sydney cluster has taken a bit of a jump today:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-17/nsw-covid-19-cases-grow-to-17/12995276
Started with 2 cases yesterday - now 17.
Care homes in the area have been lockdown and testing ramped-up. Looks like the cluster is around the RSL (pub/working men’s club) similar to one of the other clusters we’ve had.
No lockdown for local residents yet, but they are encouraging people to stay at home until they’ve figured out where this has come from.
A few months ago we hatched a plan to travel from the Highlands to North Devon to see me folks for Christmas. We've not seen them for 12 months now. They are both mid to late 70's, no underlying health conditions but my dad is disabled having contracted polio when he was a kid.
We were going to drive down over two days, staying at Tebay overnight, stay with them for a week and then drive back over two days stopping off at Tebay again.
We knocked that plan on the head a couple of weeks ago and will make the trip if / when the the cases subside after the inevitable New Year lockdown and they have been vaccinated.
Good choice IMO
Very good choice.
The Home Secretary had her turn of going around the radio studios this morning telling people not to travel and not to see elderly parents… I’ve forgotten which minister it was doing the same yesterday… anyway, there is the real government message… they just have to deliver it in a back door way that means the PM can still accuse opposition MPs of “wanting to cancel Christmas” while he gets front pages on friendly newspapers about saving Christmas.
What’s the point for the kids when most of the class are not there ?
What’s the point for the teaching staff … trying to run 1-10 people in a class and 25-30 remote?
When the levels get as bad as you report, it makes sense to close school to all who don't really need to be there, certainly this close to Christmas.
Neither of my kids schools - in original Tier 3 areas - are that bad. 20-25% off isolating at a time, 1-2 positive cases a week at daughter's secondary (600 pupils) and 4-5 at son's 6th form college (1800 students). A lot of kids travel to and from on buses, no bubbles or distancing etc.
However, questions need to be asked about behaviours inside and outside of schools when some are being so badly affected and others aren't, and lessons/good practice shared and followed.
while he gets front pages on friendly newspapers about saving Christmas.
Not a friendly paper, but the Mirror nailed it this morning.
However, questions need to be asked
About the huge difference in the buildings used and the teacher to pupil ratios. It's not just "behaviour" (although that is key), it's also about the fixed starting point that schools have as to quality/layout of their buildings and how tight the staffing issue is for them even before they have teachers missing for Covid reasons. There were ways to mitigate this for schools in the worst positions... for example the use of other public buildings, especially ones closed to the public due to the pandemic anyway... but the government specifically banned schools and councils from taking such steps... because they wanted schooling to be as "normal" as possible... which is great if you're not attempting to teach short staffed in a building ill suited to social distancing of any kind.
Perhaps we should move this stuff to the thread we have about schools and the pandemic... this government has been failing some schools (and their communities) so much this year, that some of us could rant for pages...
However, questions need to be asked about behaviours inside and outside of schools when some are being so badly affected and others aren’t, and lessons/good practice shared and followed.
it does depend very much on the starting point. If nobody has it they could spend the day licking each others faces and still have no cases. How good the schools control measures are is not a good indication of performance.
Good to see lessons were learnt after the Excel debacle earlier in the year:
"Wales cases likely to be double those reported after IT system down"
No family Xmas Day dinner for Macron, positive test.
When the levels get as bad as you report, it makes sense to close school to all who don’t really need to be there, certainly this close to Christmas.
Non of the current situation makes any sense... which is why I have so many questions from different directions.
Who are the kids who "need" to be there? What's "need" even mean? If they truly "need" to be in school for some reason then having the virus or not doesn't change that. (yes I'm picking on the word because it's easy to say "need" but mean "would be good".
Specifically on secondary schools how many "need" to be in school? We are talking about kids aged 11+ ... they can just stay at home and if they have access to some sort of device log in remotely?
(I mean what do you think kids do in the school holidays normally? or for that matter if they get told to self isolate) - some of these kids are old enough to marry and have kids themselves (and it is proposed vote) but they can't spend a day at home alone?
It would be nice if Boris could dip into his pocket and make sure they have heat and power but we all managed without back in the 70's.
You asked why I brought up social services.... because those who are most scared of social services are just following and sending kids to school regardless of their health risk.
This will inevitably involve a lot of kids with older carers. I spent time with grandparents and older aunts and uncles when I was at school and all of us were terrified of social services and drawing attention.
I can pretty much sum up what my gran would have said in this and that's "you need to go to school to avoid social services poking their noses in". Whatever you believe about SS being involved (which I don't but regardless) this is what those in the greatest need will believe without a very clear statement.
However, questions need to be asked about behaviours inside and outside of schools when some are being so badly affected and others aren’t, and lessons/good practice shared and followed.
Copy paste ... same paragraph but from yesterday's letter.
It is vital that you remind your children to really try and keep their distance from their friends on the way to and from school and at break/lunch times. Unfortunately, there is not a lot we can do when the students are in lessons, as they have to sit near each other.
The only change from previous letters (before Nov) is they now don't have the paragraph about sending children home who refuse to remove masks in class.
Lessons learned?
Sorry but infecting kids and sending them to infect and potentially kill family members isn't something that in my book should need a learning experience.
If Boris needs one then look at what he did to care homes.
if it's all down to personal responsibility why have any rules at all? Some woolly guidance should suffice.
Kelvin
There were ways to mitigate this for schools in the worst positions… for example the use of other public buildings, especially ones closed to the public due to the pandemic anyway… but the government specifically banned schools and councils from taking such steps
This ban extended to using a recently decommissioned purpose built modern school that is sat empty.
AJ
it does depend very much on the starting point. If nobody has it they could spend the day licking each others faces and still have no cases. How good the schools control measures are is not a good indication of performance.
Yes, its a virus that spreads exponentially and takes a week or more to show symptoms and indeed many kids won't show symptoms anyway.
If someone wants to spend time tracking and modelling how many kids one infected kid will come into contact with in a week and how many they will come into contact with go ahead but it's a bit of a forgone conclusion in real life.
The unknown is the transmission which is behaviours. Are they indoors or out, wearing a mask or not... is there a Covidiot in charge who packs 200+ into a room with Kelvin's OH and orders the windows closed.
Kelvin
Perhaps we should move this stuff to the thread we have about schools and the pandemic… this government has been failing some schools (and their communities) so much this year, that some of us could rant for pages…
I understand that but equally schools are one of or the primary transmission paths.
OH is in school teaching, the kid is playing "hunger games" at his school... XMAS and seeing gran is already cancelled so personally this doesn't affect us.
What does really concern/upset me is the dripfeed of the virus into the community and especially this week when many kids will end up seeing older relatives indoors.
In part the relatives can make their own choices... but keeping kids in school this week will lead to many bad ones I fear and people dying.
I'm still rattled by the local kid who lost his grandparents... half of me want to know what happened to him and the other half is scared to even find out (assuming it was possible).
The spooky silence by the media makes me feel this hasn't ended in the best way.
Hmm... was preparing to cancel our plans to travel and see my mum for two days, we're Lothian, she's Argyll.
Was relatively comfortable with the idea of travelling, we've been pretty well isolated EXCEPT for our son in nursery. The Nursery itself is operating bubbles (8 kids to a bubble) and seems to have been pretty responsible (no parents in building, masks on when picking up/dropping off), but it's still an obvious path for transmission.
My mum seems quite relaxed about it, but my poor sister who has been living and working alone for months is desperate for us all to still meet up (she has effectively formed a bubble with my mum anyway). Doesn't help that for various reasons she has done Christmas alone with mum for the past two years anyway.
Looks like I have the option of 'ruining Christmas' for my sister who is otherwise blameless in all of this, or effectively exposing my mum to our son's nursery bubble.
Not looking for answers really, just sharing a little example of what probably everyone else is going through. I genuinely worry about my sister's mental health being alone, single etc. so think I'll do it for her as much as anything.