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@crikey - thank you, it's much appreciated by all of us even if we're too busy bickering to tell you
👍
Thanks again. And please tell the other Crikeys that they are appreciated.
El Shalimo
@crikey – thank you, it’s much appreciated by all of us even if we’re too busy bickering to tell you
As my kids would say, 100%. The real heroes on the front line of this must be in bits after their herculean efforts.
My industry (aviation) is being decimated, but I won't use that as an excuse to believe conspiracy theories. Some of the First Officers I flew with and knew well, also had partners flying as cabin crew. Both have been made redundant on statutory minimums. It will take YEARS for the redundant pilots to return to flying jobs, let alone those about to start training.
I took a part time contract reduction to try and reduce compulsory redundancies. As of today Ive been furloughed on reduced pay. With that double whammy I'm now receiving 37% of my full time salary.
But I still have a job, my health and a lovely family.
TiReD
Actually I think that’s harsh..
Harsh perhaps but true.
I don’t think anyone believes the government have done a good job of explaining the situation we are in.
Certainly no-one sane with a degree of education.
@pondlife is working in an industry that has been completely decimated (as are several others here). A colleague with whom they shared an “office” for hours on end, sometimes in highly stressful situations, has committed suicide, most likely due to concerns about repaying huge training fees and providing for a family. I’d be absolutely raging in the same circumstances! As would most other people. And looking for any answers that might mitigate the apparent economic madness. That’s not trolling and he isn’t one.
As I said earlier lot of people with lots of spare time and lots of conspiracy videos
repeat....
I don’t think anyone believes the government have done a good job of explaining the situation we are in.
This isn't exactly new for this government.
If I'd been busy flying across the pond whist Covid and earlier "explanations" (miscommunications) were going on and then parachuted in it's easy to see how the conspiracies may explain the utter incompetence.
As it is I sat and watched as "experts" were denigrated and science (or economics for that matter) were treated as public opinion.
Perhaps it is a pilot trait? My brother who was accepted onto BA pilot training but then did his sponsored BEng in aeronautical engineering is also heavily into conspiracies.
It's Friday, can we all just play nicely ?
Once again, thanks to Tired and the multiple other posters giving massively useful insight. It really is appreciated.
Tough times in this household, 4 year old now in two weeks isolation, and my teacher wife just coming out of two weeks.
I speak inevitably as someone close to the situation and therefore more emotionally influenced, but I think to the points around transparency and clear communication, simple acknowledgment and empathy would go a long way. Have the government ever acknowledged the real, prolonged impact of asking teachers to do what they do every day, keeping it normal for the kids, not wearing PPE, watching their colleagues catch it and in some cases become very ill as a result, worrying about being the transmission vector to their families and loved ones.
As Tired has so rightly said, there are no good choices here. But as others, Pondlife included have said, better communication around these difficult choices and transparency would go a long way.
Pondlife, very sorry to hear about your first officer.
@loum and @dougiedogg - Thanks for the comments, I have passed them on!
Good luck to both of you with your treatment.
@crikey - and thanks to you! Sounds horrendous.
I’m lost here (and run out of popcorn) is @pondlife dantsw13 ?
Anyhow, BA long haul barons have always lived in a little bubble but I have also noticed a lot of my colleagues in aviation are railing against the science, one even phoned me to say that Trump had the cure...
But I still struggle with the reasoning limiting you to only to meet up with one other person outside for exercise, surely outside the risk of transmission is so low that the balancing mental health benefits outweigh the risk !?
On a positive note TiRed your son might be in a good position in two/three years time, the aviation industry has always been cyclical but admittedly we haven’t had anything like this before.
On a positive note TiRed your son might be in a good position in two/three years time
That was his reason for heading to Ireland for a year at Uni rather than straight to flight school. I'm optimistic.
No!!!!!!!!!
Currently being reported by the Telegraph:
The draft plans, seen by Health Service Journal, say that the “bulk” of vaccines of the last group are likely to occur in March, meaning that almost the whole population should have been offered jabs by Easter.
The dates pencilled in for beginning each group are:
Care home residents and staff, healthcare workers - from beginning of December
Ages 80 plus - from mid-December
Everyone aged 70-80 - from late December
Everyone aged 65-70 - from early January
All high and moderate risk under 65s - from early January
Everyone aged 50-65 - from mid January
Everyone aged 18-50 - from late January, but with the bulk of this group vaccinated during March
What your type (public sector) don’t seem to understand though is that for many, lockdown (or other similar restrictions) is not a game. It is a matter of life and death, feeding your kids or not, loosing your job or not, having your business destroyed or not.
public sector here. Spent most of this week talking redundancies for some or all of my team early next year. Seems like all I have done for the last 10 years is make people redundant (and have been made redundant myself) from public sector roles. It will lag by 12 months or so but public services are about to be hit hard yet again.
^^Hopefully that vaccination timeline holds^^^^ but it sounds a tad optimistic.
I think the Telegraph are being optimistic… or rather have a source prone to boosterism… but within 6-9 months is looking more and more likely, isn’t it.
2H21 with influenza will surely be mass vaccination timescale, normality by 2021. Under-promise, over-deliver. Our (Sanofi/GSK) vaccine is 2H21, Merck the same.
I asked a while back - are any of these vaccines being speculatively manufactured pending approval?
I’m still thinking 9 months to complete, but a lot of the most useful groups are looking at within 6 months now, no? Or am I getting swept up in the optimism?
With the H1N1 vaccine it took just over 6 months to vacinate everyone willing to be vacinated from it's authorisation in November 2009 in France. That four month timetable seems plausible given the resources that are going to be thrown at this to get everyone who still has a job back to work.
I asked a while back – are any of these vaccines being speculatively manufactured pending approval?
Most of them! Bet big that they will work.
The draft plans, seen by Health Service Journal, say that the “bulk” of vaccines of the last group are likely to occur in March, meaning that almost the whole population should have been offered jabs by Easter.
The dates pencilled in for beginning each group are:
Care home residents and staff, healthcare workers – from beginning of December
Ages 80 plus – from mid-December
Everyone aged 70-80 – from late December
Everyone aged 65-70 – from early January
All high and moderate risk under 65s – from early January
Everyone aged 50-65 – from mid January
Everyone aged 18-50 – from late January, but with the bulk of this group vaccinated during March
Have you got a link for this?
Impressive how the NHS has been adapted this year… just been in for an X-ray… it’s fixed appointments, no hanging around (for obvious reasons). I was in and out in 5 minutes, and this is a large hospital. Impressive. No doubt inefficient in terms of staff time etc… but as a response to the current situation, as good as you could get.
Have you got a link for this?
3:57pm update on here:
(Probably paywalled, but there are some good browser extensions available which jump over that)
Edit: here is the original:
I can also confirm cancer patients have not been overlooked or forgotten during coronavirus. Yes, my checkup appointments are now over the phone however blood tests etc are still done and analysed prior to my checkup.
@Tired, as someone who is deemed immunosuppressed (post chemotherapy) it's unclear which of the current vaccines be most appropriate, is there any particular benefit or drawn backs of Moderna v Pfizer v Oxford? Incidentally I live in Scotland and the current plan is to vaccinate all 18+ by ~April so would like to understand a little more. Thanks.
Probably worth bearing in mind that those time frames are probably a 'best case scenario' from the perspective of vaccine availability, which then forms a useful target for logistics planning. It would be pretty rubbish to end up with loads of vaccines in storage but not having yet put in place the logistics to distribute and administer them!
Probably worth bearing in mind that those time frames are probably a ‘best case scenario’ from the perspective of vaccine availability, which then forms a useful target for logistics planning.
That is what I inferred from Hancock's press conference just now.
Those timelines are pie in the sky I reckon.
If you have any ailments that put you at 'moderate' risk I reckon it's worth checking with your gp to ensure you are on the list. I have asthma, didn't get a letter about the flu vacine. Queried it and sure enough I should have but for no good reason was missed off. Hopefully I'll be included when it comes to the covid vaccination, if and when under 65s with a risk factor get the call.
Interestingly, it now appears that under 50s will be offered the jab. I first saw this mentioned in Scotland. Everything ive read so far seemed to suggest under 50s wouldn't be included in the vaccination plans, so it's great news this no longer appears to be the case.
Those timelines are pie in the sky I reckon.
My first thought. We'll be asking for Hancocks resignation again by March.
I’ve just finished nights on ITU, a sweaty, awkward, physically and mentally draining experience complete with a number of body bags; they’re not points on a graph, they’re dead people.
This+1 and Thanks indeed, infact my younger sister is an ICU nurse and they are experiencing double the first wave. Her friends parents came through last week after catching if from their kitchen fitter. The dad died this week and the mum was intubated today :_(
Really hammers home why we are doing this.
My first thought. We’ll be asking for Hancocks resignation again by March.
So xxxx-up after xxxx-up and he's still there. Why would this be any different ?
plus he's got the extra excuse the EU stole our vaccines or something?
My biggest worry about vaccination is the number of people that will refuse to have it,I have seen a couple of informal polls on weather or not people would be vaccinated and something like 40% of those that replied said they wouldn't even consider having it
I don't believe for a minute that when the vaccine is actually here, 40% will be thick enough to turn it down.
Gobshites.
If me and mine all have it, what is the risk to me if the anti-vaxxers refuse?
If me and mine all have it, what is the risk to me if the anti-vaxxers refuse?
Vaccination isn't just about you though
Vaccination isn’t just about you though
I think that was his question
Anti-vaxiteers?
Blue on blue surely?
Through the more that have it the better I know. I mean the vaccine, not the disease!
My sister/ bil are saying they won't have it (both at risk due to age/ conditions) as "it's not been tested". They love Boris though, so might do if he tells them it's world beating or something.
I don’t believe for a minute that when the vaccine is actually here, 40% will be thick enough to turn it down.
Why? What's it matter to them unless there is some sort of reward or penalty?
Unless they make it something like no access to public transport or schools, the ballet etc. why would people get vaccinated - ?
They love Boris though, so might do if he tells them it’s world beating or something.
Based on current form and assuming he's still here I can't see him actually doing anything to encourage those...and the rest are basically going to say "no" to stick it to the man anyway.
My sister/ bil are saying they won’t have it (both at risk due to age/ conditions) as “it’s not been tested”.
To be honest there is a lot in that I think. Drugs normally take a very long time to develop (going by new reports) and all we hear about this is how quick its been done. It doesn't make you wonder how safe is it. Likely a lot of NHS staff will get some work/social pressure to get it and the rest of us will be waiting until the new year.
Unless they make it something like no access to public transport or schools, the ballet etc. why would people get vaccinated – ?
I'd love the rule to be if you don't get vacinnated you pay for your own treatment when you get sick.
I think the risk of others not getting vaccinated very much depends on what the vaccine actually does. If it just massively reduced symptoms but not transmission I don't really give a shit about other folks not getting it, with the caveat that they are last in queue for treatment.
If vaccination also prevents transmission then there need to be a few more 'incentives' for folks to be vaccinated. That said, if school kids aren't getting vacinatted then there will always be a fair amount of it floating around
joepud
To be honest there is a lot in that I think. Drugs normally take a very long time to develop (going by new reports) and all we hear about this is how quick its been done. It doesn’t make you wonder how safe is it. Likely a lot of NHS staff will get some work/social pressure to get it and the rest of us will be waiting until the new year.
I'd agree, of all the reasons I've heard for not having the jab it's the most understandable. That said, given the relevant risks involved vs catching Covid and the assurances I've read on here/ elsewhere that the vaccine trials have not cut corners I don't think it's valid.
I’d love the rule to be if you don’t get vacinnated you pay for your own treatment when you get sick.
but most people won't get sick, certainly not enough to need medical treatment
I think the risk of others not getting vaccinated very much depends on what the vaccine actually does. If it just massively reduced symptoms but not transmission I don’t really give a shit about other folks not getting it, with the caveat that they are last in queue for treatment.
Unless it reduces transmission there is little point most people getting it.
That said, given the relevant risks involved vs catching Covid and the assurances I’ve read on here/ elsewhere that the vaccine trials have not cut corners I don’t think it’s valid.
Unless you're at risk then the risks from you catching the virus are not very high...
TiReD gave them earlier... but fatality is something very low if you're under 60... very very low if you're under 50... there is of course the risk of long tail etc. but I'd guess (pre guess) that's not much different to the risk to the vaccine long term?
I suspect people with living older parents who didn't already have the virus might be accepting...
Those who lost parents/grandparents from covid might go one way or another..
^^ I agree, carer for a 91 year old here so she'll be getting it asap hopefully. Me? I'd like to get it when I can due to long Covid but mostly due to the fact (I hope) it makes me less likely to transmit it to her, effectively enhancing the effectiveness of her jab.
I'll have it because it's a tiny relative risk to me age 56 of something bad happening and it will reduce the risk of me (or someone like me in the wider population) giving it to my friend's immunosuppressed child. And also old(er) people.
It's all about risk. If you get a hip replacement there's a risk of adverse outcome up to death but if it works (which is far more likely) you'll be able to walk again. There's a risk of serious injury or death of riding your bike but it's far more likely that you'll have a good ride and it'll help your mental health.
I don't have a problem with people making a different choice. I hope people will consciously make their choices taking into account all the available info.
It’s all about risk. ....
I don’t have a problem with people making a different choice. I hope people will consciously make their choices taking into account all the available info.
Based on our local FB most objections are not about risk.
Obviously a few nutters who think Bill Gates is injecting a mind control device operated through 5G... but most people who object seem to be doing so due to "not being told what to do"
If the vaccine is presented honestly then most people have a very low risk anyway... vs apathy and doing nothing.