Is being concerned about PPE 'throwing a tantrum'? I don't like your tone. Not hearing from doctors doesn't mean they're not concerned but it's made very clear that negative PR is not good for career development. Teachers are very exposed and unprotected.
Even the dimmest person can see that social distancing hasn’t taken place between kids – probably why it had such little effect – so a classroom might be, statistically, relatively safe compared to anywhere frequented by adults.
Could you explain what you are trying to say here it makes no sense.
I don’t hear doctors / nurses / paramedics / carers throwing a tantrum about going into work in the current circumstances
I havent heard teachers complain either tbh, they are still going into work and did throughout the Easter holiday and bank holiday friday. These teachers are also still working from home.
With every week that passes, I am becoming more convinced that the overall strategy was to control the epidemic only to the degree where it could still be blamed on someone else.
I too wonder this, with the smoke screen being NHS coping strategy albeit tinged with realism. This weekend as people have said is likely to be pointed as as our fault. I noted above someone pointed out that police helicopters were circling a street party - if a lockdown was strictly enforced why were the cops called in to break it up?
I’m slowly being convinced that VE days, media leaks and bank hols are being used as exposure events to facilitate a stealth herd immunity programme. I bet Cummings is rubbing his hands with glee over the weather forecast.
Reasonable up to the anti-teacher last paragraph Flaperon.
Where is there any indication that Madame or any other of her teaching colleagues is throwing a tantrum about going back to work? Nowhere. She not bothered, she's probably had the virus anyhow and is on the priority list for the antibody test if ever our gouvernement validate one.
I find the last paragraph of your post offensive. You still have time to edit it. Teachers were among the first casualties here, they were in contact with kids returning from ski holidays before the medical profession.
Doctors/nurses/paramedics/carers are no more forced to go to work than teachers. They can all walk out any time they choose but very few do. Exactly th esame with teachers. Check out the teachers on this forum, they are still working and there are no tantrums about working.
With every week that passes, I am becoming more convinced that the overall strategy was to control the epidemic only to the degree where it could still be blamed on someone else.
That would be The Phoney War problem.
So long as they explain what being alert is other than your country needs lerts it should work. I am more concerned about the green hatching round the edges sending out the green for go message in the background. To me it conflicts with an alert.
Not read back through everything but have we done Barrow.
Barrow in Furness is running with 804 cases per 100,000
It also appears to have some of the worst air quality in the UK
NW Mail - Barrow Air Pollution Levels
Couldn't lay my hands on it but I'm also certain Barrow has some of the worst health stats in the UK. I don't think it has a high level of ethnic diversity.
Not read back through everything but have we done Barrow.
Barrow in Furness is running with 804 cases per 100,000
It's all the things you mention in terms of deprivation and underlying health. The correlation between diabetes/pollution/inflammation and poor outcome will no doubt emerge.
But also one major employer (being defence-related, has it even shut down?) - once it gets into the yard and the communities it supports I can't see a good outcome.
Having said that, the figures will relate to Furness in general, there is a large population of retired/care homes along that coast. Kendal also was pretty bad, IIRC.
Another one here who's head is now spinning about what the advice from Westminster now is. Reading the online press you find stories about the police essentially not enforcing the rules as they know it's virtually impossible meaning parks are full of people sunbathing, having a BBQ and getting takeaway beers. How does that correlate with what the Welsh and Scottish Assemblies are saying? As for this 5 level traffic light system that's being talked about, what a load of crap. Traffic light means 3 stages: Stop, Caution, Go. Something the vast majority understand. 5 levels leaves it completely open to interpretation therefore people pushing the boundaries and promoting unnecessary movement of people. It's almost like it's deliberately crap so they can blame us for it's failure. Clear, concise instructions is what's needed not this situation where you can essentially choose the rules that suit you at any given time.
It's a complete and utter mess that can only lead to a big second spike and a return to everyone staying at home with more damage to people, the NHS and the economy. Thank God I'm in Wales and we have defined rules that I will stick to.
Excellent interview with David Spiegelhalter on Marr just now. Particularly comparing populations vs CV19 deaths; eg: there are 10M under 15's in the UK, and so far 2 deaths. Risk of death doubles with every 6 or 7 years in age
Also interesting to see the results of the study to see how far the infection has gone from the surveying of population.
Having said that, the figures will relate to Furness in general, there is a large population of retired/care homes along that coast. Kendal also was pretty bad, IIRC.
I heard Kendal was bad, so is Copeland. Not sure if the shut the yards down or just went for much stronger biosecurity. I think they made some big changes at Sellafield - rumour mill had it as having a cluster of cases.
On retirement clusters guess we are watching for what happens if it get's into the Southern England retirement towns.
I don’t hear doctors / nurses / paramedics / carers throwing a tantrum about going into work in the current circumstances. If you’re not prepared to do it, you’re not forced to. Perhaps being grateful that you have a publicly-funded job to go back to would be a better start.
What a piece of work.
there are 10M under 15’s in the UK, and so far 2 deaths
Deaths among kids is very low (but there have been more than 2, just following the news tells you that, no need for a data deep dive) but it is not the risk to them that is the concern… it is the risk of the virus spreading via them. And to a lesser extend that goes for those in their 20s, 30s, 40s etc.
I think this 5 level alert system will act as a feedback loop to manage a steady stream of the “herd” into the gas chambers. Better not close those nightingales just yet.
Just because a sign changes, doesn't mean we as individuals have to.
If you're being as safe as realistically possible, then just continue as you are. If other random idiots die, that's on them, not you.
I won't be changing my methods anytime soon. My 11 year old hasn't been near friends for 5 weeks and will remain so.
If you’re being as safe as realistically possible, then just continue as you are. If other random idiots die, that’s on them, not you.
You can’t really protect yourself as an individual, it takes measures that include everyone. Well, unless you have a private estate to escape to. Keep doing what you can though.
I find the last paragraph of your post offensive.
Likewise, either trolling or ignorant AF- MrsMC is a front line social worker having to go into people's houses to deal with the increase in domestic violence etc. Teachers on here have been angry, frustrated and understandably concerned, but have gone above and beyond throughout the lockdown, and certainly don't need that kind of ill informed sniping.
You can’t really protect yourself as an individual, it takes measures that include everyone. Well, unless you have a private estate to escape to. Keep doing what you can though
To an extent yes, but you can do a decent job of trying. It's not failsafe of course, but I'd be it increases your chances of staying safe.
Deaths among kids is very low (but there have been more than 2, just following the news tells you that, no need for a data deep dive)
ONS number, as opposed to newspapers
It may be higher because this is based on where CV19 is on the certificate, but if you use excess deaths vs CV19 there is a discrepancy but not orders of magnitude. Whether it's 2, or 5 or even 20 it is a vanishingly small risk.
Yes I agree the issue is not with the risk to them but the risk of passing on, but I was interested from his interview at public perception of risk. Essentially to U15's there is no risk.
While you’d expect a video put out by momentum not to put the govt in a good light, it’s hard to argue with what is presented here (comparison between UK and NZ)
Whether it’s 2, or 5 or even 20 it is a vanishingly small risk.
I’ve only heard of 3 under 14 in the news. But the third one was a big story on Friday (the death of an infant), so discounting them in an interview this weekend seemed rather cold.
And I still don’t get what the point is… no kid mixes only with other kids.
The only three letter motto that ever mattered was “Be more Germany”. That probably would have been a hard sell in the run up to Friday but the message Merkel gave at the beginning will have saved tens of thousands
This is serious
Do not mix unduly
Isolate yourselves if you feel at all unwell.
In Greece they closed a whole school of one child had symptoms.
It wasn’t testing it was clear instruction and self-discipline. How does the U.K. do on those two things in general. The leaking press is a disgrace when it comes to message.
BTW excess mortality in 1-14yo to Week 17 is currently -65 BELOW the 10-year average (95% CI. -90 to -41). This virus is not killing children.
Alert system seems to be another tool for educating the masses going forward, NZ have been using theirs to get the message across to the public. Lot's of tools needed over the next few years.
I think the government website has been pretty good with clear information tbh.
And I still don’t get what the point is…
Well, I have two kids in this age group both of whom have at times been terrified by the perception that it is death sentence if you catch it.
It isn't.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing for a removal of lockdown, as you say the kids can still catch and transmit. And maybe creating that fear 'helps' to persuade people to continue to follow the rules, but there is a balance between creating that fear and the impact the fear itself has.
BTW excess mortality in 1-14yo to Week 17 is currently -65 BELOW the 10-year average (95% CI. -90 to -41). This virus is not killing children.
Just seen this - speculation of course but what kills U15's; eg: getting run over going to school, falling out of trees.....etc.
Well, I have two kids in this age group both of whom have at times been terrified by the perception that it is death sentence if you catch it.
Good point. Kids I know are all worried for their grandparents though, not themselves.
I feel the government and their advisors are expecting it to go very wrong. The is a number of key players in the fray who are very keen to keep their names out of the media. The press can be relied on to pursue and destroy any 'difficult' natural scientists for the acts of concupiscence which '6 or 7' Boris was lionised for. Result of all this is the government ducks responsibility for this chaos since they are 'following the science', the scientists get teed off with being misrepresented, an alternative SAGE committee is created, other countries look on in horror and Boris claims we are being admired. Experts, it seems, are only trusted when they give the 'right' advice and the rest can easily be discredited and have their careers adversely affected.
I find the last paragraph of your post offensive.
I apologise. Reading back it was very offensively phrased.
Ultimately though the choice surely comes down to keeping schools closed for the next 18 months or returning on a staged basis? Any interaction will have an associated Covid-19 risk.
RTAs and cancer account for about half.
Old data but pertinent
https://www.rcpch.ac.uk/resources/why-children-die-research-recommendations
I think my local Idiotbook page would have a meltdown at those scenes.
As CV support group did over “typical cyclists” congregating outside a bike shop.
The muddled message is an attempt to get some kind of herd immunity in through the back door IMHO. It’s deliberately muddled - they aren’t thick or useless, they are just cold, hard & calculating. Hence why Cheltenham & the LFC game were allowed to take place for eg.
I’m really not sure how much longer our economy can take this paralysis though - the sad truth is there needs to be a compromise & it’s going to be a very, very painful one too. Lives lost from Covid or lives lost from a broken economy? So many job losses & undoubtedly more to come......
I’m glad I don’t have to make that choice...
Yes I was wondering where and when they are. Bit like that Polish VE day parade video someone posted the other day, which turned out to be in Russia in 2019.
Jenrick is very clear that it's all nuance (getting away with what you can justify to yourself) stay alert means stay at home, in the first instance.
BBC News - Coronavirus: Robert Jenrick defends 'stay alert' message change
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52605879
There were pictures for Glasgow in the sunshine and it looked like the gras was pretty crowded but if you were to photograph the same number of folk from above it would have shown massive spaces.
No offence
Offence taken a maximum intensity
First one is Madrid, from the Guardian live feed this morning so I’m assuming yesterday
Second one is Palermo, yesterday article here https://www.repubblica.it/cronaca/2020/05/10/news/coronavirus_ribelli_mondello-256200029/?ref=RHPPTP-BH-I256204929-C6-P4-S1.6-T1#gallery-slider=256065585
Offence taken a maximum intensity
👍
Thanks for updating.
I feel the government and their advisors are expecting it to go very wrong
I think ‘it’s already gone wrong in their minds,which is why they are being cautious as it didn’t go down as they expected.
Someone’s up to something thou but I don’t think it’s Boris an Dom.
Ultimately though the choice surely comes down to keeping schools closed for the next 18 months or returning on a staged basis?
The first isn’t going to happen. The second is. The discussion is when and how.
The issue isn’t going to work or school,it’s how to do it in a safe social distancing way.
This isn’t going away soon so adaption is key.
Robert Jenrick defends ‘stay alert’ message change
"update and broaden"
No, no, no… clear messaging is required as we roll back from the current restrictions. A ‘broad’ message left to us to interpret is a recipe for the public turning on each other and blaming each other for their different interpretations. The message from the welsh administration was nice and clear, telling is what specific restrictions were being lifted, and stating clearly how to avoid that creeping towards no restrictions. The UK needs clear governance now, not the vague nudging “not out fault mister, we told ‘em to be alert and stay safe” nonsense. Some very difficult conversations on the way… between employers and staff, police and the public, neighbours, schools and parents, debtors and creditors, the self employed and their clients… all trying to read the runes.
BTW excess mortality in 1-14yo to Week 17 is currently -65 BELOW the 10-year average (95% CI. -90 to -41). This virus is not killing children.
Its unlike you to be lax with your use if language. Its stuff like this by scientists, taken out of context by journalists that cause issues. I realise this is just an internet chat bored so it doesnt really matter but...
The issue isn’t going to work or school,it’s how to do it in a safe social distancing way.
Exactly, but given building constraints its reaaly hard to see how this can happen in many instances and given the incompetence our leaders have shown so far many will struggle to believe what they say.
how to do it in a safe social distancing way
That’s where the ‘staged’ bit of the return to school comes in. To be clear, all kids returning to school full time means no safe social distancing, it just isn’t possible.
