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So here’s a depressing compliance related anecdote.
Was chatting to a friend earlier who is a paramedic. He recently blue lighted a man with stomach issues to A&E. The man refused to wear a mask in the ambulance or the whole time he was in casualty and the x-ray dept. He was admitted for his stomach issues and tested and found to be asymptomatic positive for Covid.
Our small local hospital has had quite a few staff cases recently, who knows how many other patients caught it while he was wandering around............
If I’ve got my mental sums right, that 0.02% people in 43000 infected excluding the placebo group? Wow thats some success.
Or looked at another way 9 people in 21000 got Covid whilst under the protection of the trial vaccine. That's a rate of 42 per 100,000 whilst I presume taking the normal measures the rest of us are taking and being surrounded by other people being similarly considerate. It sounds like the test subjects were all over the world so I've no idea what the average 'background' infection rate is but where I live 42/100,000 is quite large in comparison.
Clearly a huge leap forward but it's just shifted the decimal point one place in the risk factor.
Vaccine! Pfizer claiming 90% of people are protected by it. Some good news/hope!
Remember a published uk infection rate is only symptomatic cases, so 2/10 of all cases. Plus the vaccine numbers are over a long period.
Remember a published uk infection rate is only symptomatic cases, so 2/10 of all cases. Plus the vaccine numbers are over a long period.
true
Yep - 42/100k is weekly. probably more like 300/100k. over the same period as the vaccine trial, 3000/100k.
Whereas the trial results of 42/100k were in areas where the pandemic were raging.
Bawjaws announced we've bought 40 million doses of this..
Monday, July 20, 2020 - 12:00am
NEW YORK & MAINZ, Germany--(BUSINESS WIRE)-- Pfizer Inc. (NYSE: PFE) and BioNTech SE (Nasdaq: BNTX) today announced an agreement with the United Kingdom to supply 30 million doses of their BNT162 mRNA-based vaccine candidate against SARS-CoV-2, currently in development, subject to clinical success and regulatory approval. Financial details of the agreement were not disclosed, but the terms were based on the timing of delivery and the volume of doses.
Yep – 42/100k is weekly. probably more like 300/100k. over the same period as the vaccine trial, 3000/100k.
Whereas the trial results of 42/100k were in areas where the pandemic were raging.
That does not quite square - the placebo group only had a rate of 400/100,000. By your reckoning they did significantly better than the background infection rate.
As I said, when comparing trial vaccine to placebo the decimal point has shifted one place in risk factor. A great start but not a panacea.
Bawjaws announced we’ve bought 40 million doses of this..
40 million tins of Tizer being delivered as we speak.
The vaccine is great news but noticed that it has to be transported at -80°C which will make distribution interesting!
Ultra cold chain distribution is an issue with most of the vaccines on trial, IIRC.
How long from exposure to shedding the virus?
The kids break up on 18 Dec and won’t then be out of the house until Xmas. For me, a -ve test on 22/23 reduces the risk significantly. We are definitely in a risk balancing phase imho.
It's a numbers game, and I wouldn't dream of criticising someone who is at least looking objectively at the risks and trying to balance them.
Yes, there will still be a risk that a child could develop Covid after a negative test on the 22/23rd following exposure on the 18th. The majority who are going to develop symptoms would do so by then. I'd probably whip them out of school on the 15/16th, but I'm on the risk averse side of the spectrum. 🙂
A lot families will be weighing up the risks this year.
Happy to see a vaccine starting to get out, but have to say this whole thing is starting to remind me of Resident Evil, hopefully i'm wrong, but 2020 might just be the calm before the storm!
What are the feelings in Wales? Did the 17 day lockdown do its job
Welsh hospital admissions are now shrinking. It worked, as it has in Northern Ireland and Scotland too. Contact restriction reduces transmission and that reduces new infections and trips to hospital.
The Pfizer vaccine result confirms that if you have antibodies against the virus, then there is protection from infection. That's an important finding, but it's not really that unexpected. Why do I say that? Well they benchmarked the neutralizing effects generated in healthy volunteers against serum from people who had recovered - who do not go on to get reinfected rapidly.
publication https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2027906 Figure 4 (vs. Human Convalescent Serum HCS)
It is the first RNA vaccine. RNA is very unstable (see all the arguments on PCR tests), so has to be kept VERY VERY cold. Minus 80 cold chain cold. Unless there is a marked change in global cold chain distribution networks, I'd say that this is not the long-term vaccine. But it is proof of concept, and that is important. The spike protein vaccines will be stable at normal temperatures.
I'd also say that the Oxford/Astra Zeneca vaccine is possibly dead in the water based on the preclinical evaluation of the two candidates. But we shall see.
[tl:dr] Vaccine protects 9/10 people against infection for 28 days and proves the concept. A great starting point, but curb your enthusiasm, plenty of hurdles to overcome yet.
So nice to have some good news, even though we all still need to be cautious for a long time yet. FTSE is going through the roof!
Standby for the political maelstrom that will develop over who gets the jabs first.
I’d also say that the Oxford/Astra Zeneca vaccine is possibly dead in the water based on the preclinical evaluation of the two candidates. But we shall see.
Which preclinical evaluation of which two candidates?
I’d probably whip them out of school on the 15/16th, but I’m on the risk averse side of the spectrum. 🙂
A lot families will be weighing up the risks this year.
It's not only risks but balancing whatever punishments they dish out.
I'd expect not only maximising fines but withholding of free meals if kids get taken out of (state) school early.
The Pfizer vaccine result confirms that if you have antibodies against the virus, then there is protection from infection
I haven't been paying much attention, but haven't there been studies to suggest that antibodies in people who have had the virus don't hang around very long - about three months?
So this new vaccine will only provide temporary protection?
Preclinical here
Clinical in the lancet here
Pfizer's vaccine produced sterile immunity in rhesus macaques here providing a much more impressive response than the Oxford candidate.
But clinical might trump preclinical and Oxford vaccine also works fine. That's drug development for you - What. A. Ride. 😉 Duration of protection is yet to be proven. One step at a time.
TiRed - can you possibly expand your thoughts on the Oxford vaccine? I thought we had heard it worked well in producing immune responses across all ages?
Edit ^^^^^ thanks
A quick top of my head thoughts bubble:
If The Pfizer one is better, but hard to transport, why not use that for the most at risk, but use the Oxford one for the mass population at scale?
Thanks - I wondered if you were referring to something new. I'm more optimistic about the Oxford one, but I don't much mind which one(s) work!
Welsh hospital admissions are now shrinking.
@TiRed - is this data publically available? THe Rapid COVID-19 virology page ( https://public.tableau.com/profile/public.health.wales.health.protection#!/vizhome/RapidCOVID-19virology-Public/Headlinesummary ) I've been looking at has admissions for week ending the 1st, that is still showing a rapid rise.
Does that data show hospital admissions? Am I looking at it upside down?
Wales here https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare
Wales count suspected COVID not confirmed, but definitely stable. I don't look at sub regions I'm afraid.
I use Hospital admissions as the gold standard because hospital-seeking behaviour is symptoms based not testing-frequency based.
UPS (amongst others) have been making some pretty big investments in the cold chain facilities required to store and transport vaccines like the Pfizer one. The distribution across US / Europe will presumably be more straightforward than other regions - not least helped by the fact we're coming into the cooler season in the northern hemisphere.
Ta ferrals... I didn't even see the tabs on the webpage.. just went straight into the spreadsheet and checked out the tabs there. Doh! Hopefully it'll look better when the last week goes up on there.
What are the feelings in Wales? Did the 17 day lockdown do its job and was compliance decent?
Did it do it's job? It *seems* to have done, I'm not sure Public Health England publish the same figures, but PHE produce a report daily on infections, deaths, admissions etc.
At a glance, infections are down about 50%-70% over the period just before lock-down and whilst we've had a couple of bad days for Deaths in the 40s, today is a, and I hate to say it, a 'good' day with only 8. However if Wales had a population the same as England and the same number of deaths per population those numbers would be 750ish and 140ish.
As for it's effectiveness compared to it's goal, it's hard to say. Our firebreak, the same as England's isn't there to save lives per-se, it certainly isn't there to try to eradicate Covid, it's about keeping admissions below a level that would mean hospitals would have to cancel electives, or even reach the point when they'd have to triage people with covid and let people who might survive, die, because there wasn't room to treat them, it seems to have done the job.
It's pretty much nailed on that unless there's a fundamental change in Covid thinking because of a Vaccine or a new understanding of 'true figures' because of the Liverpool experiment etc, we can all look forward to something of a Xmas amnesty, followed by another firebreak to get us through to Spring.
As for compliance, it varies massively by region. It's been said in the press that asking the people of Merthyr and RCT to not socialise in each others homes would be like asking them to change their DNA.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-54828434
There will always be the 'dickheads' and, there are few people, if any I know who haven't interpreted the rules themselves to break a minor point to do something, but in Cardiff at least it's been pretty well followed. Lots of people driving short distances to go for a walk in the country, or the beach etc, but it's mostly low-risk, outdoors stuff. Our spike was driven almost entirely by the influx of students in September, it seems at least on the face of it, the firebreak came just about at the right time as it was spreading from the Student Community to the larger one.
Can someone clarify for me what 90% effective vaccine means:
a) of those who have the vaccine, 90% are destined to become immune. The 10% are biological wierdos who must rely on societal herd immunity
b) 90% of people get immunity, 10% don't. Totally random, maybe vaccine quality will improve over time
c) effective against 90% of strains/substrains; like the flu vaccine, its a guess at what things are going to be, a few will slip through the net and there will be no defence against them.
d) something else
A great start but not a panacea.
Nor is the influenza vaccine but we've learned to live with that.
not least helped by the fact we’re coming into the cooler season in the northern hemisphere.
Not THAT cold I hope! (-80C is jolly chilly, special freezer chilly).
Can someone clarify for me what 90% effective vaccine means:
A population was given two doses of the vaccine and an equal number were injected with a placebo. Both populations were then followed for 28 days, and the number of people catching COVID was counted. They looked at the data once they had about 100 infections (in about 40k people). What they saw when they counted up those 100 infections, was about 90 who had placebo had caught the infection, but only 10 who had had the vaccine within the 28 days. The split of 10/20000 vs. 90/20000 is VERY unlikely to occur by chance (defined beforehand as 1/20 times or P < 0.05).
So what it does not yet tell us is:
1) What happens after 28 days? Will protection last three months? six months? a year? Trial ongoing
2) What happens to different strains? The 100 people will have their virus genotyped to see
3) What were the characteristics of the 10 who were infected? older? Comorbidities?...
So it really is early days. Vaccine trials are large, but they are small compared to the eventual population size treated.
Nor is the influenza vaccine but we’ve learned to live with that.
But as every repeats ad nauseam - Covid isn't influenza
I had my first visit for the Novavax trial today. Passed all the screening no problem so have had an injection of “something” and a covid test. Seemed very thorough and well organised! Back on the 3rd for round 2 of injections.
An interesting experience to be part of and hopefully one that might do others some good.
@TiRed If I've read the above correctly, they can claim 90% effectiveness of the vaccine without exposing all vaccine participants to a controlled known number of current Covid positive individuals?
Yes, nobody has been "challenged" intentionally yet. They just use enough people to allow nature to infect them.
Also interesting will be to see whether the 10% who still get it have mild/no symptoms.
Thanks from all of us FFJA.
Edit: and thanks yet again for the education TiRed… keep it coming.
My youngest's school has shuffled it's inset days about so the last day of teaching is now 15th, allowing a period of isolation before Christmas.
I wish my eldest's school has done like wise.
That’s very sensible.
Just to rain on the vaccine parade a little light drizzle.
The circulating SARS-CoV-2 spike variant N439K maintains fitness while evading antibody-mediated immunity
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.11.04.355842v1
SARS-CoV-2 has low error rate when making copies, but occasionally one will pop up. Here is one that escapes binding to the Regeneron antibody cocktail. Rather pleasingly it does not escape all antibodies, and a proper antiviral agent should still eventually knock it down. Depressingly it's hunting ground has been Scotland.
But this is viral evolution in action. 1.5M mink are about to meet their maker for the same reason. Escape mutants are the norm when you apply selection pressures. Any vaccine will apply that pressure.
Escape mutants are the norm when you apply selection pressures.
You mean evolution is real?
If this vaccine is considered safe, would it not make sense to just give it to everyone anyway, because even if it only lasts 6 months we can still massively suppress the virus during that time. Then if numbers go up again we either re-immunise everyone or just apply strict T&T and quarantine case by case, can't we? If we were capable of acting that competently, of course.
It does make sense to give it to everyone, trouble is we won't have enough doses for that for a while. Although we could potentially dose everyone in the uk it would mean big populations in the rest of the world without and due to mutations this has to be a world wide effort if travel etc is to open up
You mean evolution is real?
Don’t tell the outgoing White House staff.
If this vaccine is considered safe, would it not make sense to just give it to everyone anyway
Genius! Thank you! Glad you’re here. When can you have all those vaccine doses ready? I’m in.
Apologies Molgrips. Mass once yearly vaccinations might well be the “long game”. Ignore my arsey response. Too many people have misread today’s good news as if it was an announcement that the world would be vaccinated in the coming months… I apologise for reacting to you as if you were saying that… reading again, I don’t think you were at all. Sorry.
There's going to be a significant proportion of the population who rightly or wrongly decide they'll rather take the risk of catching Covid rather than have a vaccine that has been rushed to market and may have unknown long term side effects.
Idiots, you mean? It’ll be a long time before we have mass vaccination and have to worry about them… take up will be higher than supply for the next year at least.
Dear lord he's using even more cringy war analogies, bugles and all. 🤮
I'll pass on any vaccine for a while yet. One because I have antibodies that will neutralize it, and two because others need it more. It is VERY positive news for combating SASR-CoV-2 infection. The following vaccines, using more conventional technologies, may have just as much success. But nature has a way of coming back to bite you one the derriere (finger in the case of mink).
You mean evolution is real?
Who knew? On https://lockdownsceptics.org/, there was debate as to whether the virus even exists. But yesterday it turned into https://uselectionsceptics.org for some odd reason.
You still have the patience to go on there? Wowzers.
Re: vaccine, who wants to be an "early adopter"?
Think I'd wait 6 months after any vaccine.
Re: vaccine, who wants to be an “early adopter”?
Sign me up. My individual risk/benefit analysis probably comes out slightly differently than a younger, healthier person.
You still have the patience to go on there? Wowzers.
There are a couple of intelligent people with whom one can have serious debate. Just a couple. Most seem to be brexitrumpards. But a jobbing scientist must be a sceptic. I am most definitely so, but my weighing of the science lends to a more mainstream view.
“Not THAT cold I hope! (-80C is jolly chilly, special freezer chilly).“
Just meant that when the ambient temperature is lower it can make it easier to maintain very cold temperatures.
Re: vaccine, who wants to be an “early adopter”?
All the people we need to thank for signing up for trials.
Once the vaccine is publicly available, no one who gets it will be an ‘early adopter’.
Which conspiracy theory will be strongest next year? One of the “anti-vaccine” ones, or one of the “they’re deliberately denying us mass vaccination” ones? Place your bets now…
I was being flippant. I think lots of us would like it but there will be a prioritisation to who actually gets it. My fear is that frontline workers, police, army etc will be strong-armed into it for operational reasons.
I really hope it's as safe as claimed
Which conspiracy theory will be strongest next year? One of the “anti-vaccine” ones, or one of the “they’re deliberately denying us mass vaccination” ones? Place your bets now…
The Russian one will be the ethical alternative, the Pfiezer one will give you aids, Biden will be an NWO elitist who hates Brexit, self-driving cars will be a tool for race replacement because they'll be programmed to avoid black pedestrians at the expense of the white occupants, the public will continue to blame "Chynahh" for everything whilst conveniently ignoring Mink fetishizing degenerates in Denmark, mumsnet will become a political party and Piers Morgan will be prime minister.
Don’t joke about mumsnet… they’ll come for you.
You assume that I'm only joking!
Long way to go but ive dared to be a little optimistic tonight.
A "friend" on fb is already saying how he definitely won't be getting the jab and being applauded for saying it. Linking it (negatively) with Biden's election. I dont care at all, dont get the jab. Helps on the logistics of supply for others etc. Only negative is that the more people that have the jab the better of course. Obviously he will no doubt end up getting the jab and just never admit it.... Or start moaning about NOT being offered the jab, he seemingly has only partial self awareness. Before Brexit/ Trump/ Covid I honestly thought he was a decent guy. However, he is totally toxic and utterly filled with hatred and I'm glad that I'll never actually have real life interaction with him again. Ive concluded he's a ******* selfish, utterly bigoted, idiot tbh.
Rant over.
Huge thanks to the people on here involved in the trials. Genuinely. Reinforces my believe that fundamentally most people are decent human beings.
Ok, so re. the positive news about the vaccine. Help me out here. I’ve mentioned this over the last day or so to a few people and I’ve had quite a bit of push back...yeah, from people who’ve happily benefitted from the MMR vaccine etc. I’m sure I’m not alone in hearing the “it’s been developed too quickly...who knows what the long term effects are...you can’t trust these drugs companies...” I could go on - you all know the shtick.
Unfortunately, the shtick isn’t just coming from the run of the mill anti-vaxxer types - it’s now coming from some people I just wouldn’t expect it from at all. And I’m hearing a lot of “I’m not taking it.” Is anybody else surprisedly hearing this from friends/acquaintances?
Anybody help me out with a list of bullet points so I can politely tell them to cop themselves on? 😀
I got tangled up in a "the test is the vaccine" conversation a while back, some apparently intelligent people absolutely swallowing it hole. I was like "I had the test, I wish it was a bloody vaccine".
Luckily we don't need everyone to get it for it to work... And by the time it gets out to a large amount of the population, it'll have been out and demonstrated to work for so long that resistance will fall. So I don't see it being a general public health issue longterm but man is it depressing.
“it’s been developed too quickly…who knows what the long term effects are…you can’t trust these drugs companies…” I could go on – you all know the shtick.
I answer that specifically by pointing out that we dont know the long term effects of long Covid but from what we know so far they could be bloody dreadful for many. Long term organ damage, Neuro issues, strokes plus other issues we have no idea about as yet. Nature mixed up Covid, I'll go with the man made solution to it as the least risky of the two on this one.
From a country that snorts half it’s weight in badly cut cocaine and then drowns itself in ethanol, the vaccine safety stupidity is astounding.
Ok DD how about:
Antibodies have been proven to protect from severe infection
Vaccines of all flavours produce those antibodies
Those antibodies look the same as past infection antibodies
One of those vaccines has shown protection against infection
The mRNA used to vaccinate is a tiny part of the virus machinery you would receive anyway
Your body is making the viral protein and then the antibodies against it. All natural
Pharma won’t be making much money, vaccines are a high volume low margin product. We’ve said 5 or 10% above cost to reinvest into research
The economic reality of getting the world back on track DWARFS any profit a company will make. The FTSE rose by billions in one day!
Watch out for the GAVI/Gates/Deep Mind/Great Reset [insert theory here] microchips in every injection and the mind control neurotoxins#
#maybe. Go big or go home on your conspiracy theories.
TiRed, could you explain the method they used? Specifically, were they vaccinated (or not) then sent out into the general population to go about their day to day & catch the virus, or were they then exposed to the virus post vaccination and the infection rates monitored from this research based exposure?
From memory I read that the Oxford study was “happy” that the rate of infection had dropped over summer but “unhappy” because it undermined their study & trials. I seem to recall that this was because they needed the R value over a certain level in order for them to be satisfied that subjects were likely to be exposed to the virus (and therefore satisfied that the vaccine had actually offered some form of protection). I think it was based on ethics; without an actual existing cure/treatment it was seen as unethical to infect subjects.
What I’m getting at is that unless subjects were intentionally infected how can we ascribe the efficacy to the vaccine, and not some other influence such as the natural seasonal drop in infections and the widespread lock down over the spring and summer (or indeed a combination of vaccine, summer & lockdown)?
What I’m getting at is that unless subjects were intentionally infected how can we ascribe the efficacy to the vaccine, and not some other influence such as the natural seasonal drop in infections and the widespread lock down over the spring and summer (or indeed a combination of vaccine, summer & lockdown)?
You have your statistically representative sample of the population given the vaccine yes? Well then, their rates of covid-19 infection shouldn't differ from the population at large. The lower rates over the summer probably made it harder simply because it made it more difficult to ascertain a statistically relevant sample size and I guess more infections could make differences in the data clearer.
@TiRed. Thanks. That’s helpful. I hope I can change some minds.
What’s the best response to the “vaccines take years to develop...this has been rushed!”?
(My thinking is that if resources are concentrated, timescales can be slashed...is that fair enough?)
The trial members are exposed to the same sars-cov-2 viral infection risk as everyone else in the community. What matters is the number of infections you see. So it’s a comparison of n out of N thousand people-months versus m out of N thousand people-months. When you have enough events you can test whether n/M is differ to m/M. If that difference is so big you’d not expect it by chance, positive trial!
If there is a low infection rate you have to wait a long time to get (n+m) infections. If it’s raging you will not. Oxford complained that rates in the U.K. were too low so accruing those n+m events would take too long. So they went elsewhere. Brazil is a good place as the epidemic has been burning along at a rate of knots. South Africa another.
Recruitment of events of COVID19 infection not people happy to have the jab is the rate determining step here. Of course the unlocking and growth of infections in the U.K. has helped for vaccine trials.
Hope that makes sense
because they split the trial into two, half got the vaccine and half got a placebo. Then they were sent out into the world to live normal lives like the rest of us, shopping, meeting friends, who knows - just being 'normal' in a covid world. If your trials big enough you get a decent cross section of behaviours so any outliers are smoothed out.
And they wait to see how many catch covid in the weeks and months after the vaccines were given.
And when they have enough infections to make counting worthwhile, they open the secret sealed envelopes and find whether those with infections had the vaccine or the placebo.
Out of every 10 infections - 9 went to placebo injections, 1 to someone who had the vaccine, and that's why they reckon it's 90% effective, 9x better than no vaccine, or whatever else.
What’s the best response to the “vaccines take years to develop…this has been rushed!”
The technology used (mRNA) is very quick to scale up. But harder to deliver as a product. Traditional vaccine technologies are coming next year. When Big Pharma has a good target and rapidly understood biology, it’s got a pretty good track record of delivery. That’s been the biotech revolution, and I would say it has massively delivered in the past year.
But I’ll be honest and say that there is no substitute for long-term monitoring, and experience shows that immunity to other coronaviruses wanes. This is not likely to differ. We have wide data on short-term. We will turn this into wide data on long-term as we extend follow up and learn.
Rare events WILL appear perhaps just by chance, but there is a known cost of not proceeding now (global economic downturn) compared with a known unknown but likely very tiny risk of future peril at a later date. That’s what regulations strives to balance and it will monitor carefully as any new treatment or vaccine is rolled out.
I wonder what the correlation between people who believe that natural herd immunity is the way forward, and people who believe that the vaccine is untested/evil/contains mercury/Bill Gates's semen?
Not sure on that one but....
There is a definite correlation between Brexit (sorry but it's what ive seen), anti mask, pro Trump, anti lock down and anti vaccine.
Hardly a conclusive study but I think others will say they might have observed some of the same?
There's also the more understandable explanation of just being a bit worried as it's "new and a bit rushed". I can at least relate to that. The above however, no. Just no.
Not meaning to make this political, it's a genuine observation. Sorry to derail.
Some economic perspective. The FTSE rose 4.7% in ONE DAY on news of a positive vaccine. That is worth about £70bn. A rise simply on the news that there is a means to a likely eventual end to the pandemic. If a vaccine was priced at £10 a dose, then that one day gain in just the FTSE (forget all other stock markets and economies) would pay for the entire global population to be dosed once.
That’s how economically significant the result is. Far far too big for any single pharma company. I think pharma reputation will come out of this much improved as people will have a clearer understanding and appreciation of biotechnology. The pace of work has been and still is nothing short of breathtaking. For everyone working in the field. That includes the regulators too btw.
I see all the newspapers are running with "back to normal by spring" which seems very optimistic? Mainly on the logistical side of getting the vaccine to though people by then.
That said, I think everyone needs some good news at the moment. That includes me and though I dont see that "normal" will ever return on some ways (some of them for the better) the ones that are important to me just might. If not by spring then sometime next next year at least. Full time carer for 90 year old mother so she'll hopefully be nearish the top of the list. I'd like to think I'd be vaccinated too as I'm with her most of the day, everyday as an extra level of protection but I'll take what I can get and be grateful. Mum being vaccinated has a massive knock on effect on my life. I won't lie, part of this is purely selfish. I've distanced from my partner (don't live with her, she is amazingly supportive but it's been stressful for her particularly), my son, my 7mnth old grandson. Basically we never ended shielding. I'm feeling pretty spent. That said, one has the massive comfort of knowing she wasn't in a care home as the first wave hit the didn't of steel. That was a huge blessing.
Great news but some much needed public perspective from JVT in johnson's presser.
As for stock markets - monday was partially 'irrational exuberance'; dow jones futures show some easing on tuesday; likely profit taking; far eastern indices just opening - Nikkei up 1.3%.
It's a great start but we're still a very long way from a proven, safe vaccine with rapid scaleability.
I'm still of the opinion that we're two years away.
How I hope I'm wrong.
^^ So do I mate but I get where you are coming from. Fingers well and truly crossed.
Hope that makes sense
Yes thanks 👍🏻