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JOhnson - eff him. He has the blood of thousands on his hands.
Paging Mattoutandabout, is this you?
‘Overnight all my paying work disappeared’ https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-52142423
I wanted to report bigmountainscotland’s post for thread derailment but the “REPORT” link isn’t there.
Makes you think...
Does the report link go if someone has used it?
it requires everyone acting sensibly, rather than trying to get away with whatever they can within the current laws, advice and instructions
Which, by and large, people are doing. Hopefully they will continue next weekend, but IMO we're far enough through the looking glass that any notion of Easter bank holiday will have little impact.
Wonder how much blood Matt Hancock has on his hands…
Is what you're saying that the un-elected less salubrious part of our national government have used this global pandemic to "clean house" and execute those in their own organisation that have displeased them. And that so far, the one and only victim of this is the deputy ambassador to Hungary?
Paging Mattoutandabout, is this you?
‘Overnight all my paying work disappeared’
Not our Matt...
So, the PM is still ‘in charge of the government’, but today’s cabinet meeting has been cancelled. Bonkers. Take a week off, get well, let someone else chair this week’s cabinet work. Government is needed now, it can’t be put on hold while Johnson recovers in hospital.
Is what you’re saying that the un-elected less salubrious part of our national government have used this global pandemic to “clean house” and execute those in their own organisation that have displeased them. And that so far, the one and only victim of this is the deputy ambassador to Hungary?
Nope, but clearly I'm not allowed to discuss any of this for whatever reason...
Loving that Doncaster tweet. So, how much dynamite do we need again?
So, how much dynamite do we need again?
All your suggestion would do is distribute stinking bits of Doncaster over the entirety of South Yorkshire.
Nope, but clearly I’m not allowed to discuss any of this for whatever reason…
How should I have interpreted the phrase "Wonder how much blood Matt Hancock has on his hands…" followed by a link to the death of said deputy ambassador, which also highlighted his previous professional positions in the Arab world.
Obviously I cannot go into details. But this was my day job last week. Just announced...
Vir screen antibodies from recovered patients, select the best single clones and then develop them as potential therapeutics. Think of it as biotechnology upscales the manufacture of the serum. My expertise is the Clinical Development of these agents.
Still feeling as if I have altitude sickness today...
Wouldn't want to deviate from the topic...
Perhaps you could dig up the tweet in question
In the meantime, here is a more on topic tweet:
https://twitter.com/nw_nicholas/status/1245852682654367744
Well done TiRed, I am more than a little envious of your skills.
There's a whole thread on Dyson. Anyway, TPP designed it, Dyson are building it and it utilises their motor tech. TPP know a thing or two about designing medical devices.
Similarly, GSK will not be working alone.
Still feeling as if I have altitude sickness today…
Pummelled and productive - sorry to see you're still having a bad do but it's good to see it's not hampering your ability to sort stuff. Well not too badly?
Re Chris Whitty
According to the Mail Online this morning (sorry!) he is out of isolation and back at work.
Apparently he's the guy that suggested Boris might want to get his cough checked out.
Bigmountainscotland. I think you need to make a distinction between Vallence, who has been very much part of the problem with his backing for the UK's herd approach back in early March and GSK. Vallence is part of the problem, GSK potentially part of the solution and we shouldn't object to GSK being given work they are well placed to do just because it looks like nepotism.
I gave my opinion on Vallence about 30 pages back, he should hang his head in shame and resign for the mess he's contributed to. IIRC something like 200 scientists wrote to challenge his approach at the time and they were right.
I know I shouldn't feed the troll, but a fundamental part of gsk's work is the development, optimisation and validation of analytical tests, probably to a higher level than routine diagnostic ones used in the nhs.
so I'm sorry but I cannot think of better people to be doing that work
Perhaps not, but a bit of transparency never hurts!
What transparency do you need? Az are working with the government too
There's clearly not enough transparency for me to express all I'd like on this forum...
To not make use of GSK as part of the response to this problem would be criminally negligent.
TiRed - whilst it clearly isn’t good times, it is interesting times to be a scientist!! Good luck with that project - it looks fascinating.
@ bigmountainscotland
Ref the coughing.
You do not need to self-isolate if you just have a cough after 7 days. A cough can last for several weeks after the infection has gone.
Have a read of the infomative link Drac posted.
@ bigmountainscotland
Ref the coughing.You do not need to self-isolate if you just have a cough after 7 days. A cough can last for several weeks after the infection has gone.
Have a read of the infomative link Drac posted.
To save others a few clicks:
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/self-isolation-advice/
Well that's me told, thank goodness for herd instinct eh!
Good work by the way TiRed, don't confuse my frustrations at being muted for exposing uncomfortable truths about the dodgy so-and-so's chosen to rule us as a criticism of your important work, appreciate these are trying times for everyone.
For people who enjoy comparing countries:
it is interesting times to be a scientist!! Good luck with that project – it looks fascinating.
Clearly we have not had enogh of experts 😉 . BTW Vallance is not an expert in epdemiology or herd immunity, he had a team advising him (SAGE). Experts may disagree, but normally have informed opinions. His job has been to convey the SAGE advice.
Doing things at scale is what Industry does, don't be surprised at that BMS. I don't speak for GSK, but am proud to work for them. I also share many of your frustrations, particularly with politicians.
Good paper here about how this virus goes about its business
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2196-x
and summed up well by this guy https://twitter.com/PeterKolchinsky/status/1246975275021348865
I'm afraid I agree with him, the level of speciality and sheer deviousness is exactly why I became a virologist too, sadly now lapsed
Obviously, the dust hasn't settled yet, but it appears at least provisionally that the herd immunity advise was bad. Someone will need to be accountable for that. There will be a big post-mortem.
Everyone seen todays results?
https://twitter.com/DHSCgovuk/status/1247185091517911040?s=20
Lots more testing concluded, but positive tests have remained a similar number to the past 7 days.
I was wary that the numbers wernt rising because of limits on testing, but hopefully thats not the case.
Deaths reducing for a 3rd day, which is promising.
The figures from Sat, Sun and today will be revised upwards in the next couple of days as there is some missing data.
Deaths reducing for a 3rd day, which is promising.
Cross everything… and STAY AT HOME
Someone will need to be accountable for that. There will be a big post-mortem.
How exactly do you determine who is responsible for which deaths?
Unless you go back in time 6 months and mandate that everyone buys and maintains 3 weeks worth of food and medicine, and then implement a 100% countrywide lockdown at the ideal point; there is literally no perfect solution.
So what would be a fair number for our politician show trial? per capita deaths over that of Italy, or China?
Do we count those who statistically would have died of flu this year, can we use the reduction of fatal road accidents as credit?
It's the policy advise I'm talking about.
wouldn't that be from the SAGE group?
rydster
Member
Obviously, the dust hasn’t settled yet, but it appears at least provisionally that the herd immunity advise was bad. Someone will need to be accountable for that. There will be a big post-mortem.
Matt Hancock has said that herd immunity was never the plan, but SAGE dccuments seem to say otherwise
SAGE is a multidisciplinary panel comprised of 3 groups
https://www.gov.uk/government/groups/scientific-advisory-group-for-emergencies-sage-coronavirus-covid-19-response
SAGE relies on external science advice and on advice from expert groups. During COVID-19 this includes the:
New and Emerging Respiratory Virus Threats Advisory Group (NERVTAG)
Scientific Pandemic Influenza Group on Modelling (SPI-M) (Department for Health and Social Care)
Independent Scientific Pandemic Influenza Group on Behaviours (SPI-B)
The allegations made by the editor of the Lancet, among others, is that too much weight was given to the behavioral scientists input, who Cummings is a big fan of, its called the Nudge Unit & the head received a promotion under Johnson & Cummings as soon as he became PM to 'What Works National Advisor across the whole of Government'- basically advisor to every aspect of government!
this doccument here from the 4th March shows that the nudge unit were pushing herd immunity, even tho other 2 groups in SAGE were not
(thats not to say that input from other groups was great- the modelling team was using very old data on the lethality & initially ignoring what was coming from China, Japan & Italy)
all this added up to the government arguing over whether 'taking it on the chin' was the plan
as Johnson admitted here
https://twitter.com/Joyce_Karam/status/1246950839278882816
so while the cabinet it out the government went ahead with allowing 3000 Spanish fans to come here from Madrid & 250,000 people to be squeezed in together at Cheltenham Cup
even saying that construction workers could still go to work, 200,000 of the squeezing onto the tube in London
but as deaths in Italy piled up the modelling team changed their data and even cummings stopped believeing in the Nudge unit (though you can still see their hand in the mixed go for a drive/park/exercise vs dont go for a drive/park/exercise confused messages) https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/coronavirus-ten-days-that-shook-britain-and-changed-the-nation-for-ever-spz6sc9vb
that initial delay where Johnson & cummings grappled with bad data & their dislike of big state intervention vs mounting scientific evidence from the rest of the world, were the crucial 2-3 weeks when they really should have acted if we wanted to 'flatten the curve', the present growth in deaths, lack of PPE, ventilators, lack of testing reagents & facilities were all exacerbated by those intitial mistakes (imho )
Raab last spoke to Boris on Saturday, is it me or does that not sound good.