Stay safe Drac. Get ready for those beers* we’ll all be buying you after the worst of this.
[ edit: *full price, not clearout dregs ]
Wetherspoon boss Tim Martin defends decision to keep pubs open:
The pubs and micro-bars I frequent closed down of their own choice over the past few days.
Very, very welcome:
I'd agree, but what was stopping them applying the same rule to the self-employed based on their 3 year accounts? It's inexplicable, like they just have to make sure someone gets f***** no matter what. Gig workers also screwed, and they could have compelled employers to keep people on. I bet a lot still decide to lay people off because it's easier for them to do that than keep them on.
It’s inexplicable
I’m hoping it’s just unfinished.
Can I get a haircut? Should I get a haircut.
Seems like a bad idea really. Problem is the alternative is my wife has offered to give me a number 3 all over* with the horses clippers.
*and I'm not sure what she meant 😲
*and I’m not sure what she meant 😲
Means she's making you into velcro is going to stick you to the curtains in the event of a need for self isolation.
Am I unduly cynical or is Rishi Sunak ****ing himself senseless making big announcements?
and I’m not sure what she meant
Number 3 sounds a bit short … as for a number 1 all over instead.
Am I unduly cynical or is Rishi Sunak **** himself senseless making big announcements?
While on the face of it yes.
But I think he's going as far as he dare to prevent cival unrest taking down our country at this time of great need.
There is no illusion we will pay for this for the rest of our lives through taxation and cuts but it's better than paying for it with your life.
Boris is not doing anything to prevent it at the moment that much is sure
His first announcement might as well have been"look around. To the person to your left to your right Infront and behind. 1 of you will likely die"
That wasn't going to end well even if it's the truth.
His first announcement might as well have been”look around. To the person to your left to your right Infront and behind. 1 of you will likely die”
That wasn’t going to end well even if it’s the truth.
1 in 5, that's simply not the truth. Even in the worst case with the "herd" approach that seems to be quietly being dropped then 20% or 13.4 milion is an order of magnitude (or possibly 2 orders of magnitude) too high.
As for taxation and cuts, I suggest it might be the start of some spending money printed by central banks instead of handing it to banks who hand it to money hoarders. A rebirth of the welfare state, it's what Macron included in his speech and he's an ex-banker so knows what not to do.
There is no illusion we will pay for this for the rest of our lives through taxation and cuts but it’s better than paying for it with your life.
Pretty sure we won't. As Rone said above this has moved us to a completely new economic reality that looks a lot like MMT. When we come out of this nightmare they'll have a choice as to whether to maintain that or go back to business as usual. The latter will involve writing down massive and unsustainable debts requiring huge taxes and austerity. No one's going to vote for that. Even if they did decide to revert back to the neoliberal model, it's going to take a very long time on the scale of decades, and it would need to be coordinated with other major powers. As I've said in previous posts this is an economic revolution. They have no choice but to do it, because the alternative is a complete collapse in the economy.
Looking past the fantasy, of course “we” will pay for this… but it’ll be over a twenty year plus period, hopefully much longer. We’ve only recently stopped paying for the loans required for the post war patching up of our society… but just like back then, this is necessary and welcome. And then there is the question of who pays and how. “We” is a very vague term.
It might be inflated away. But where we are we do this because we need to. We fix the problems it creates later.
Even in the worst case with the “herd” approach that seems to be quietly being dropped
Quietly dropped like Brexit?
Which is of course completely impossible as it was never there in the first place. If it never existed it cant be dropped.
Hopefully that covers both sides for a balanced perspective.
who pays and how
I'd start with massive hike in inheritance tax. Basically as old folks die off the government takes their assets to pay off the debt.. seems fair given the youth of today will be paying through their nose to keep them alive just now (and rightly so)
Won't happen, but seems the fairest way to get back on track quickly..
seems fair given the youth of today will be paying through their nose to keep them alive just now
We all pay including the elderly who have paid for decades already.
I’d start with massive hike in inheritance tax. Basically as old folks die off the government takes their assets to pay off the debt.. seems fair given the youth of today will be paying through their nose to keep them alive just now (and rightly so)
As an elderly person I've been paying plenty and was hoping to pass on the rest to my children. Your proposal seems a bit mean to me.
So that's the pubs shut then.
Barely see anyone in them these days - advise people to avoid them and suddenly everyone's desperate to go.
They must be the same people who go twice a year at Christmas.
Barely see anyone in them these days – advise people to avoid them and suddenly everyone’s desperate to go.
They must be the same people who go twice a year at Christmas.
Actually, properly? Go on you're making it up. There'd never been a Boris bounce after such an impassioned pleeeeeeeaaaaaaassssssseeeeee.
I’d start with massive hike in inheritance tax.
Not going to be necessary. This debt is going to be so massive that it's simply not possible to pay it back, so why even bother? Every other country will be in exactly the same boat - although the US will try to gain advantage as always - the global community will strike a deal to make it dissappear. There is no way we'll have an extended period of austerity aftre this, instead it'll be the opposite like after WWII. Hopefully they'll also take the opportunity to make sure it's a zero-carbon recovery too.
Of course this is all on the proviso that they avoid collapse. They might have solved the immediate risk of collapse of the labour market, but they haven't yet addressed the problem in the financial markets where trillions of dollars of securitised debts could cause banks and strategic industries to fail (see post earlier today to guardian article). And then after that what about shareholders and private capital? They're not going to be happy about their fixed assets disappearing in an orgy of money printing. Interesting times ahead once the virus danger is over.
As an elderly person I’ve been paying plenty and was hoping to pass on the rest to my children.
I'm sure you were, as we're my folks. But we face a situation whereby society in general will be utterly economically screwed for a generation, and someone has to pay for it. So it's either massive tax hike on earnings and austerity for years, or when people die much more acquired wealth goes to the state.
I'd be one of the ones that would lose out, my folks have far more assets than me. But maybe it's time there is a bit more redistribution of wealth.
We all pay including the elderly who have paid for decades already.
As an elderly person I’ve been paying plenty and was hoping to pass on the rest to my children.
Bollocks to that. Everyones' taxes paid to look after their parents, or you should have done, but many voted for tax cuts, a run down of public services and pension holidays and benefitted hugely from cheap housing and booming post-war economy under the false impression you 'earned it'?
The chickens will come home to roost now that the reality is that our civic infrastructure can't cope and will need huge investment to rebuild and reinforce. The neoliberal, free market capitalist small government model is dead and buried if we have any chance of recovery because stuffing it in the back-pockets of bankers and CEOs isn't going to do anything for the guys with no job or money to pay rent or help create a resilient health service.
I’d start with massive hike in inheritance tax. Basically as old folks die off the government takes their assets to pay off the debt.. seems fair given the youth of today will be paying through their nose to keep them alive just now (and rightly so)
The youth of today is presumably hoping to use that inheritance for its own purposes
... and will be the majority voting demographic if this goes as feared
chewkw
MemberI think BoJo has handled well. I understand him clearly.
I agree with, no idea why people are shouting. Been fairly obvious since last Thursday we've been going into a managed shut down.
I don't really think people are listening much. Been pretty obvious to me.
I don’t really think people are listening much. Been pretty obvious to me.
Indeed.
The youth of today is presumably hoping to use that inheritance for its own purposes
Maybe it's just me but I'd rather see wealth spread out. I think it fundamentally unfair that generation after generation get handed vast inheritance they have not earned whilst others go poor. I know of at least 3 people who are close to me who will in the not too distant future become multi millionaires when they inherit family wealth. It's not even money their own parents earned, as they themselves inherited it.
By taking a far bigger cut of inheritance less people will get richer, but on the other hand No one will be poorer. I fail to see how that isn't a good thing.
Shutdown needs to happen, whilst it is quieter in my city there are still people and cars absolutely everywhere. Loads of people ignoring and carrying on.
Can we not just tax everyone sending triumphant txt messages from the pub tonight?
Shutdown needs to happen, whilst it is quieter in my city there are still people and cars absolutely everywhere. Loads of people ignoring and carrying on.
Ditto in the town where I live. I'm WFH and went out for an hour for some exercise - the town centre was as per normal and the pubs full of people. Reality will hit and hit very hard.
OK. So just to clarify I am not, and have not, questioned the message that Bojo has been putting out. However, in my humble opinion his oratory style is bumbling. Sunak's is much clearer and definite. Nothing to do with the message being given but the manner. Something to do with gravitas. Using forum-speak YMMV (had to look that up) 😜
I think the debt the country will be in will be like my 90s student loans. Low interest and only payable back if I earn enough.
Every year the amount I have to earn to start paying back goes up far more than my wages.
It’s just a virtual debt after a while. Life goes on without it actually having an effect on me.
Mine will be written off in a couple of years...
1 in 5, that’s simply not the truth. Even in the worst case with the “herd” approach that seems to be quietly being dropped then 20% or 13.4 milion is an order of magnitude (or possibly 2 orders of magnitude) too high.
That's why I never quoted him. I was using it as an example of what he could have got away with saying in leiu of what he actually said and it wouldn't have shocked any more than what he actually said. --its also paraphrasing a line from a famous movie.
But don't let that get in the way of your always trying to be Google correct.
but the manner. Something to do with gravitas. U
Yep and I said the same about macrons speach.
Bojo looked foolish , everything he said just bumbled through.
Even trump managed to come out looking better than bojo recently. - and I don't say that lightly.
Pub over the road is having a final noisy karaoke piss up lock in.
We can literally hear darwinism in action.
Am I unduly cynical or is Rishi Sunak **** himself senseless making big announcements?
I couldn’t give a shit one way or the other if he gets off on it or not. If they make the right decisions and do the right things then that is good enough.
Even trump managed to come out looking better than bojo recently. – and I don’t say that lightly.
Are you sure about that?
https://twitter.com/podsaveamerica/status/1241041962871881728?s=21
trail_rat
Even trump managed to come out looking better than bojo recently. – and I don’t say that lightly.
You are tripping fella.
seosamh77
SubscriberI agree with, no idea why people are shouting. Been fairly obvious since last Thursday we’ve been going into a managed shut down.
I think people are shouting- or calmly criticising- because we've waited til the day hospitals start overflowing before going into a "managed shutdown". We had an advantage here that Italy would have killed for and it's been largely pissed away. And even now that it's finally happening, it's being done as counterproductively as possible- "pubs are closed... from tomorrow! Get the beers in!".
chewkw
MemberI think BoJo has handled well. I understand him clearly.
So Johnson says we can defeat it in 12 weeks
At the same time his science advisors say that measure will have to be in place for a year......
Tbh. I've gave up trying to reason with people that won't leave their personal biases to one side.
Have fun.
We can literally hear darwinism in action.
Nope, they’ll (nearly) all be fine. It’s not their own lives they’re being sanguine about. Depressing stuff.
I think people are shouting- or calmly criticising- because we’ve waited til the day hospitals start overflowing before going into a “managed shutdown”. We had an advantage here that Italy would have killed for and it’s been largely pissed away. And even now that it’s finally happening, it’s being done as counterproductively as possible- “pubs are closed… from tomorrow! Get the beers in!”.
This !
Last week we were told that it was better to 'suggest' we avoid pubs , now as cases skyrocket & hospitals and itu units are at capacity , it's become an order,
The delay, in onset of disease, the vulnerable presenting in hospital & ending up in itu, means that in 1-2 weeks another big spike in admissions.
Meanwhile My Dr colleagues have spent today going round schools & research institutes to confiscate goggles as one of the largest hospitals in London has none .....
The number of people telling us Johnson is doing a great job only seems to be increasing 🙄
Having been in isolation since Tuesday after my Mrs came down with it- just took the dog for a late night walk so i wouldn't bump into anyone and along with the pub over the road it’s like we’ve won the world cup, pubs are busy, cars are tooting their horns, some **** has just let some fireworks off! You know what - i dont care if our death toll far surpasses Italy or Spain, we deserve it.
I am kind of wondering if the drip feed policy has a point. Maybe a week or two ago there really would have been mass disobedience if they had tried to bring in mandatory restrictions judging by what’s happening tonight. Tough call