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Inspired by Pennine's Helvellyn pictures.
Have done general walking/hiking etc, but where should I look to gain experience confidence in adventures like Pennines. Do I need to join some sort of club association. To gain experience / training with.
If so who where ?
Thanks
Perfect thanks ton
I did a course at Edinburgh University on winter hill walking - very good. Somewhere like Manchester, Sheffield uni etc would probably have similar for the Pennines. There's no substitute for experience, mind, but it's good to go out with experts and learn the basics wrt ice axe, crampons, emergency shelters etc. Then you can get out there and learn from your (hopefully non-life threatening) mistakes.
The most useful thing was navigation. Most everyone can read a map in simple terms, but knowing things like how long does it take to go up a contour in snow, on average, or how long does it take to walk 100m in snow? They really bring the landscape off the map page and can be vital when navigating in winter conditions.
ton's suggestion to learn specific skills is good eg navigation, weather, snow and ice
walking, climbing, mountaineering clubs are all different and full of peep's with their own agenda - anyhow even if you live in Norfolk there will be one with some people who actually go out to the mountains - doing the navigation and hill skills stuff at somewhere PyB may help pick out that the b+++sh+t from useful - give it a go if one club doesn't work then try another all are different, only a very few elite clubs have membership requirements
British Mountaineering Council's list
http://www.thebmc.co.uk/Category.aspx?category=3
Yes I would agree no substitute for experience. But to go and learn the basics from experts, to then put into use.
Yes advanced navigation skills would be good will look into the uni side of things.
i did my mountain leader course at pyb in 1986.
excellant then, should think it is the same now.
You need to be comfortable using a map properly. By this IMO I mean navigating in difficult conditions not just following marked paths.
Other than that the principles are the same as going for a ride. Plan a route check the conditions, tell someone your plans, take some extra clothes, take some food.
Most things in the lakes in summer don't need a great amount of knowledge but you do need to know when to turn back if it starts to get nasty.
In winter things are a bit trickier and you should get coaching. Things are more serious if they go wrong.
If you go up helvellyn in summer just follow everybody else, you won't need a map 😉
Nice to read my Helvellyn photos have given you inspiration to give it ago.
As already mentioned, specific skills are required for winter walking/mountaineering. There are plenty of courses in the UK which cater for individual skills or group leadership. If you're not looking to lead groups look for a personal winter skills course. I can remember doing 100ft slides on neve snow headfirst & tumbling to become proficient in axe braking.
Although I have both MLCs, I also did a winter climbing course with a mountain guide in Scotland. This was an absolute fantastic course due to ratio of 2-1. I learnt so much in that week climbing such routes as Tower Ridge, Gardyloo & many others up to Scottish 4.
Do the basics to give you confidence, but there is no substitute for experience. And for that you need to get out in the winter hills in poor weather. Map & compass knowledge is vital in winter because the snow often banks out the obvious descent route & it's too easy to make a mistake leading you into potential danger. Anyone who has crossed the Cairngorm plateau in almost whiteout conditions will know what I mean!
On Striding Edge we caught up with two nervous guys wearing crampons. Neither were`using them correctly whilst traversing steep ground. I gave instructions to my lad hoping they would hear me & follow suit.
Good luck - next year you could be doing an easy Grade 2 like this
[img] http://images.fotopic.net/?iid=yw4mto&outx=556&quality=70 [/img]
there's a winter walking course on at pyb this week!
Dare I suggest doing a bit of reading, then getting out there and learning for yourself? The Mountain Leader handbook has everything you need to know in it really - I am still working my way through it all. A course can only be a good idea if you can afford it though.
I have done some low-grade winter mountaineering, but I think I will go on a course before trying to tackle more serious stuff.
Glenmore Lodge is the most likely to be able to provide the range of conditions
This is a fascinating thread, I've been thinking of this myself. Have long been into walking/climbing at a fairly fair-weather level but wanted to get out in winter. Having done a brisk climb up Helvellyn last winter and decided discretion was the better part of valour when nearing the top of the ridge (no crampons/axes) and turned back I was really frustrated. Again this winter I've popped out but got into a blizzard and although I knew exactly where we were, the dangers around (from the map) and how far it was, I just wasn't liking the idea of continuing, and again turned back in case things got significantly worse.
I've done a couple of expedition leadership and low-level walking courses and always found them to be a bit like stating the obvious and tell me nothing I can't work out from a book, but it seems somewhat cavalier to take this step based on reading a book?
I dunno - I may be being cavalier but in winter conditions I have been up a few things like Sharp Edge on Blencathra, up a Grade I gully on Helvellyn and down Swirral Edge, up Stob Coire Nan Lochan in Glencoe.
The first few times I went out in full winter conditions I didn't try to do anything steep or technical, but practised using crampons and ice axe braking. I have also so far only been places I am fairly familiar with so navigation is less of an issue. I have also always had a rope and bit of gear with me - not had to use it so far but I know how to should the need arise.
Personally I think as long as you are sensible, do your homework, and build up gradually there is no reason not to learn for yourself - the best learning is experience anyway surely. Going with a partner is a good plan though.
BTW - in my experience ukclimbing.com forum is a good source of info on current conditions, and a good place to buy second hand gear.
I did the PYB Scottish Winter skills course a few years ago, & can totally recommend it.
Besides actually getting out there & doing the practice they spend the evenings covering the theory.
Another vote for Glenmore Lodge. They will have a longer season in which you can book to go on a course.