[Closed] Where do I stand? (about to get shafted at work content)

You seem very unhappy there if you do have another job like you say then leave. As you've only worked for them for 12 months they can terminate your contract without any real reason.

Best of luck either way.

It's defamation btw, but deformation sounds good too 🙂

You have another job to go to. Go to it.

That's what I'd do anyway.

Dare I say it? Join a union ! probably too late now.

Go to the meeting and see what they have to say. Do not resign if you want to fight them - but with a complicated ownership / contractual situation you need real good professional advice

forget any defamation type claims unless they really have been bad mouthing you to clients - and even then think twice. Load of greif for not much reward.

Being paid late is a real issues - they are liable for all costs you incur because of this in normal circumstances - but again your contractual position is unclear to me.

The p60 - thing -want intil you know what is happening and nail themto the wall for it - my bet they have not been paying your tax or MI - but its only a guess

so - go to the meeting - keep your temper, be factual and polite, record it if you can - certainly take notes. Tehn you need to decide what to do depending on the outcomne

I'd get a pint of superglue, some feathers and a big grin 🙂

Difficult one, which solution will help you sleep easily.
First thing, could you leave and implement some of your ideas in a new company doing what you're currently doing. You said that you could turn the company around, what's wrong with going into competition with the parent company?
I wouldn't resign if the solicitor/CAB say you have a good case.
If they offer you a good deal, take it, but get a solicitor to read the final redundancy contract first.
Tribunal is the way if they dismiss you unfairly and you feel the need for justice, if what you say is true, you have a good case and will probably win your job back. 😯 I guess not what you want...

Been there mate and was given crap advice, hopefully I've learned something and can help others.

whatever you choose to do, good luck. 😉

You have another job to go to. Go to it.

+1

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If you resign, they win... instantly.

Taking them to court is a MASSIVE decision you need to make - it has a big knock-on effect for the rest of your career. I'm only mid-20's, so really still at the beginning of my career, but if I was mid-40's (with family responsibilities, etc) then it would be a different matter.

I was essentially 'ousted' from my last job, to the point where I had an excellent case for constructive dismissal.... but a family friend who spend their career in HR advised me strongly against it.

Any HR department worth their weight in salt does a full background check on candidates, including court cases involving former employers (all publicly accessible knowledge).

My now ex-employers knew this too - so I 'resigned' with a cheque for 6 months pay in my hand.... essentially paid to go quietly.

If you have another job lined up, please be sensible and get contract signed before you leave your current one. Don't shoot yourself in the foot by not having any job.

If you resign, they win... instantly.

Assuming they don't want you as an employee how would continuing to work for them be a win for you?

A win for you is to work where you're valued.

I mean in the context of them trying to get you out...

This is all good advice, thanks. My ideal situation would be to walk away with a small "golden goodbye". I've taken good legal advice and have been told that I have them 'over a barrel' if I really wanted to make a nuisance of myself but if I'm being honest I'd rather not and I know they would rather not too. My contract is paper thin and weighted heavily in my favour. I'm worried about the tax situation more than anything, not paying PAYE or NI is the sort of thing they would do.

I do have a stable job to go to if required, however I also have a limited company registered in my name so I could (and would) start up on my own as there is the potential for a good profit, the business model is simple and the overheads are tiny (less than 100 quid a month costs to keep me going).

I think I'll wait to see what I'm offered (if anything) before making my decision.

The point about resigning is that (unless you can make out constructive dismissal) you're terminating the contract, not them.

Any HR department worth their weight in salt does a full background check on candidates, including court cases involving former employers (all publicly accessible knowledge)

- background checks are not done on all, most or (in terms of volume anyway) many employees, although it depends on the position

- civil litigation in the UK is not easily searchable and is not all a matter of public record

- the searchability of court records in practice depends on the person's name and where they live. If they're a Edvard McSpoonbender living in Norwich, then I might find them. If they're a David Jones in Ebbw Vale, a Mohammed Iqbal in Salford or a Hamish McTavish in Glasgow, I'll never know who's who

- having been involved in civil litigation is not an automatic "no" for employers; it depends on context

- very, very few employment disputes ever actually go to court

Failure to provide required legislative details

not paying PAYE or NI is the sort of thing they would do.

OK, so the deal is simple.

Ignore the corporate structure of the business - loads of companies are owned by chains of other companies. That's just tax/accounting/legal history.

If they want you out, they'll do it. It may be pleasant or unpleasant. Most sackings are unpleasant.

The key is this - if they want you to go, and want you to resign (generally done to avoid a claim by you), then you do a deal. This is done via a compromise agreement.

A compromise agreement is just that: a contract that says "I agree to leave, and I won't bring any claims. You agree to pay me the following."

The important things are: (1) what they pay you to go and (2) what restrictive covenants they want to impose. The first covers the instant hit of being unemployed. The second is the sod if you want to work for a competitor or, as you suggest, start up yourself. The covenant will also probably try to stop you poaching their staff from the business you work in now.

Remember, as with all agreements, it isn't binding until you sign it, and you don't have to sign what's put in front of you (and they're obliged to pay a contribution to you having a lawyer look at it).

If they try to play hardball and get rid of you on some spurious grounds, that's when you make a claim.

Good luck.

Don't resign, do as Don simian and Kona bunny suggested.Good luck.

Don simian

Now my biggest concern is: what do I do if they want me to stay?! I had pretty much convinced myself that they wanted me out. I definitely do not want to stay, but I feel I would have failed if I leave of my own accord.

I'm not a puppet like the rest of the company (and parent company) and I think this almost frightens them, I think they want drones to do their bidding (of which I certainly am not). My biggest hope is that a deal can be done, I can walk away and get on with my life.

Another question: What if they decide to make me redundant and then fold the company? (I think this is an option that might be under consideration - just a hunch)

Have you worked there 10 months in total? If that is the case then redundancy and even constructive dismissal would give you a tiny payout. Best option would be a compromise agreement. They pay you some money, you walk away, minimum hassle for either party. Even then you'd be doing well to get a month's salary if you've been there less than a year. If you think you can make this job work then stay, if you have another option elsewhere then go for it!

I definitely do not want to stay, but I feel I would have failed if I leave of my own accord.

No mate, that's not failure, that's being sensible! Honestly. I was treated badly by my last employer, my face didn't fit so to speak. I was bullied and sworn at at one point, then just ignored when new posiotions came up. I got another job and took it. I still work for the same company, doing similar stuff, but the atmosphere and conditions (not to mention the money) are so much better.

Now that said, I'm the sort that won't back down, so in your situation it might be a bit different for me, I might want to take them to the cleaners!

Is it really worth going through the hassle of courts and stuff or is it better to forget it all and move on?

What if they decide to make me redundant and then fold the company?

I was essentially 'ousted' from my last job, to the point where I had an excellent case for constructive dismissal.... but a family friend who spend their career in HR advised me strongly against it.

Same here. If you're confident you can get re-employed quickly then why hang around dealing with people who sound like they've no worries about unethical behaviour. Spending time taking them to court is just time-consuming, emotionally draining and stopping you from moving on.

Two thoughts:
1. Get some proper legal advice on your situation. I never replied to any questions immediately but said I'd like to take some advice and come back to you, and then rang my HR mate before I responded. You're at risk of being manipulated otherwise IMO
2. Speak to an accountant re tax and NI potentially unpaid. Maybe worth calling HMRC yourself to ask them to confirm. That way you're showing you're not trying to evade...

HTH

Thanks all.

I think the most sensible option would be to see what is said and offered and then consider my options. I really don't want to go to court, but the point is that I could, and I know I would win (had a long chat with a commercial contract lawyer) but I just don't want to. Likewise I don't want to be fobbed off when I know I have been treated badly. Repeated late payment of my wages could have serious reprocussions for years to come.

There's definitely something fishy going on somewhere down the line. Bearing in mind that I have sole control over everything except for invoicing and payments, I can't even see the accounts to see when customers have paid, which has nearly landed me in hot water with customers a number of times.

There's definitely something fishy going on somewhere down the line. Bearing in mind that I have sole control over everything except for invoicing and payments, I can't even see the accounts to see when customers have paid, which has nearly landed me in hot water with customers a number of times.

Sounds like the company has significant cashflow problems - particularly if you are having your salary paid late.

I think its time to swallow your pride and move on to set up your own organisation or go and accept the other role you have been offered - obviously with a large payout and an agreed reference. Going down the employement tribunal route is only going to cause you stress when you could be using your energies more positively in the two other options you have.

errmmm - with less than a years service you cannot go to a tribunal so no point in even thinking about unfair dismissal or constructive dismissal - and anyway any compensation is only for losses up to a maximum. If you have another job to go to you have no losses.

An Update. Was supposed to have a meeting yesterday afternoon with the puppet master and associates, yesterday afternoon came and went, no sign of anyone. Asked the ops manager for my parent company (who are also based in the same office) what was going on. His reply was "don't know but I wouldn't expect said puppet master to be in the office until next week sometime" Have sent numerous e-mails relating to certain matters, mostly work related and they're being ignored, along with my calls.

I know what "should" be in the bank, and it's healthy, should be enough to pretty much cover my next year's basic in one go, and with change to boot.

I'm happy to cut my losses to an extent, I wouldn't want to go to a tribunal even if it were available, however I am in the process for applying for a mortgage and am about to start proceedings to take out a commercial mortgage too. The frequent late payments could potentially be damaging to our applications. I was even aware that there was an instance where the accountant was informed not to pay me as, and I quote "you've got other more important things to sort today than XXXX payroll, do it another time".

Definitely sounds like you'll be better off out. Would a bank deny you a mortgage on the basis of a problem caused by a third party?

not necessarily, but it certainly won't help. Obviously I would need to demonstrate a track record of sustained and regular income.

with less than a years service you cannot go to a tribunal so no point in even thinking about unfair dismissal or constructive dismissal

Heh - who to believe on instinct? TJ or the

commercial contract lawyer

Answer: TJ. No joke. No disrespect to the lawyer but this may be illustrating the risk of speaking to an area you're not very familiar with. Anyone care to fire up Google and source it either way? I CBF. I'd also like to slink away from my earlier reference to Constructive Dismissal if it is the case.

UNFAIR DISMISSAL - ELIGIBILITY

Who may make a Complaint of Unfair Dismissal?

In general any employee below retiring age has the right to make a complaint of unfair dismissal to an employment tribunal[b] provided that he or she has worked for that employer for at least one year[/b], including any statutory period of notice. Note that the correct date for establish eligibility in this respect is the employee’s Effective Date of Termination (see below).

http://www.roydens.co.uk/content15.htm

there are of course exceptions to this - a long list if you follow the link [b]hence the need as I stressed for the OP to get proper professional advice[/b] as his situation is complex as regards to status due to the convoluted ownership

If you want legal advice talk to the CAB or get your free 30 minutes. Don't ask on here, especially with something this important.

TJ - thought that might be the case. Good on you.

CAB is NOT the place for professional advice. you ll have to trapse down there to book an appt. come back to be 'helped' by someone who deals with benifits claims all day they will look it up in a book and say ' seek legal advice' and that 'll be it..

as has been stated you ve been there less than a year you havent a leg to stand on they can dismiss you without reason right now..

not necessarily, but it certainly won't help. Obviously I would need to demonstrate a track record of sustained and regular income.