The woman was dressed in such a way that one might assume she was inviting questions about her heritage.
???????
I do get asked where I am from - because my name and accent does not match being scottish born and bred. I don't take offense but depending on the circumstances I do sometimes answer in such a way as to disconcert the person asking. Answering "Edinburgh" and refusing to elaborate and you can see folk groping for a non offensive follow up question. I do tend to elaborate after a few moments awkward silence tho.
The woman was dressed in such a way that one might assume she was inviting questions about her heritage.
I think (hope) that was meant to be a sarcastic joke satirising the standard victim blaming responses from the establishment, perhaps a little too dry to be picked up on.
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https://youtube.com/shorts/8St7AI37F7Q?feature=share
That cartoon actually puts the lunacy of the question into perfect clarity doesn't it?👍
I think (hope) that was meant to be a sarcastic joke satirising the standard victim blaming responses from the establishment, perhaps a little too dry to be picked up on.
Nope
I will regularly ask people where their accent is from, irrespective of whether it is a foreign or UK accent, I find people are very relaxed about having an interest shown towards them and happy to talk about where they spent their childhoods.
Often they will ask me to guess and a couple of weeks ago a lady on a bike ride was well impressed that I correctly guessed Guyana. She only had a very slight accent but as it was clearly Carribbean and she was of Indian heritage Guyana wasn't difficult to guess.
In the course of getting to know someone through work etc I will sometimes ask them if they were born in the UK, I have no inhibition about that as along with 40% of Londoners I wasn't born in the UK myself. I will occasionally ask someone if their parents were born in the UK depending on the conversation and whether it is discussing culture etc.
I certainly don't treat the subject of heritage, ethnicity, etc, as taboo subjects, but do so in the context of genuine interest in a person. Lady Hussey's relentless interrogation of a complete stranger was bang out of order. If it was as alleged then it was clearly totally hostile. The fact that Ngozi Fulani was invited in the first place and Hussey was in effect sacked actually reflects quite well on the royal family/Camilla imo.
I will regularly ask people where their accent is from, irrespective of whether it is a foreign or UK accent
What do you make of Ngozi Fulani's accent? Would you bother to ask her where it was from? I doubt it, and if you did you'd stop inquiring at this point, I'm sure...
Me: I am born here and am British.
SH: No, but where do you really come from, where do your people come from?
I’m unsurprised.
I'm not surprised that you're unsurprised.
Interesting though that Lady Susan Hussey's father in law was colonial administrator in East and West Africa, .As educator and who has written several books on his experiences there.
So from that we can expect family photos and interest in family history of that country.
wouldn't you think 😕
Maybe all this gets us a step closer to knowing who it was who was concerned about the colour of Harry and Megan's baby...?
My sympathy has mellowed somewhat now the lady in question is claiming she was abused because the foolish old dear touched her hair without her permission. Surprising choice of words coming from someone who runs a charity helping domestic abuse victims.
I find the whole area of racism a bit of a minefield really, to the point of avoiding asking questions out of a genuine interest, for fear of causing offence.
I grew up in the Yorkshire Dales in the 60s and 70s when casual conversational racism was commonplace and school friends with slightly darker than usual complexions were given racially offensive nicknames and non of us had ever seen or met a person of non british heritage. As I grew up I found it easy to leave those ways behind having realised how abhorent racism is and having met people from other cultures.
Having met with and worked with/for quite a few of the 'Landed Gentry' types I can well believe that no offence was meant by the conversation which was most likely born out of a cack handed effort to make small talk and possibly a genuine interest because of familly backgrund coupled with an immense lack of awareness born out of living the lives they do. Oooh, a bit of class stereotyping prejudice there, and here's some more. Despite being 'well spoken' a hell of a lot of them are piss poor communicators and thick as mince but not actually unpleasant people.
My sympathy has mellowed somewhat now the lady in question is claiming she was abused because the foolish old dear touched her hair without her permission.
that is assault in UK law
My sympathy has mellowed somewhat now the lady in question is claiming she was abused because the foolish old dear touched her hair without her permission. Surprising choice of words coming from someone who runs a charity helping domestic abuse victims.
On the contrary. I'd say she'd be perfectly qualified to comment on issues involving respecting personal boundaries
What do you make of Ngozi Fulani’s accent?
How do you pronounce her name anyway?
Erm-gozi? N-gozi? Ng-gozi?
My Zulu friend is Ndlovu pronounce as Ng-lovu.
My sympathy has mellowed somewhat now the lady in question is claiming she was abused because the foolish old dear touched her hair without her permission.
I actually can't make up my mind whether pushing her hair to one side to read her name isn't the most offensive aspect of the whole unfortunate interaction.
I wouldn't call it assault but I would call it extraordinarily rude and insulting. How dare she touch a grown adult woman without permission as if she is a child?
stuhawk
Free Member
My sympathy has mellowed somewhat now the lady in question is claiming she was abused because the foolish old dear touched her hair without her permission.
In fairness I've heard that its a bit of a common issue that black people have had over the years, people touching their hair as it's "different". The Color Purple alludes to this in the "punch scene".
Now, in this instance, it was to read the name badge apparently but I can see why it could cause an issue for various reasons in this context and others.
My sympathy has mellowed somewhat now the lady in question is claiming she was abused because the foolish old dear touched her hair without her permission.
That's actually something that people of African descent seemingly (only because I have no first hand experience) have to put up with a lot. Like, folk touching their hair to see what it feels like, uninvited. So I could understand someone feeling violated after the umpteenth ignorant twunt has a feel of their dreadlocks, afro or whatever style they may have. I have no idea why anyone would think it's okay to invade someone's personal space in that way but clearly people do.
What what what ?
<sorry>
</not_sorry>
(I actually agree with you)
Ernie - its would be considered assault in UK law. Assault is actually a very low bar as it were
I’ve been thinking about this this morning, as I initially thought the same. But I’ve realised that if I met someone white at a do, I wouldn’t give their ‘roots’ any thought at all (unless, to be fair, I heard them speak with a particular accent or they were wearing a beret, a stripey top and a string if onions around their neck or something). I’ve realised that the reason I might be, what I initially thought innocently, interested in someone non-white’s ‘roots’ is because of just that, they’re not white. I’ve therefore based at least part of my interest and, in some way, opinion, of them on the colour of their skin. And that, I think, is unconscious racism. I think.
Well, you say you'd be interested in a white person's origins if you heard an unusual accent or something. Isn't that the same as seeing a black/brown/purple person? One of their physical features shows, very obviously, that they are not originally from here.
I don't think it's racism to see that, or be curious, just to discriminate because of it.
I often hear people speaking a language or with an accent I don't recognise or something and am curious where they're from, simply because I have a strong interest in different cultures and so on. Never ask though, because apparently it's racist.
Yes I get it's a sensitive issue and there are real problems, it's a difficult issue and a fine line sometimes but there's no point pretending everyone's the same.
Even in this case, the lady (not Lady) in question is making a point of her culture: "Sistah Space"
I'm white British but "different" cos of what I wear, do not mind at all people asking questions out of genuine interest.
a beret, a stripey top and a string if onions around their neck
Racist! 😉
ossify
I’m white British but “different” cos of what I wear, do not mind at all people asking questions out of genuine interest.
That situation is very different from the topic of this thread if you reflect upon it a little though.
and she got a medal...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Household_Long_and_Faithful_Service_Medal
wanted to go to the “bug**r” bar instead of Burger bar.
My son's first language for a while was German. His first first language so to speak.
Anyway the Frankonian word for digger is Bagger, which is pronounced Bugger.
Whenever we were out and about in the early years he'd get excited about seeing big duggers and tractors ( as any small boy would) and would shout any time he saw one. Much to the consternation of other people on the train/ bus/school trip
Happy days
Ernie – its would be considered assault in UK law. Assault is actually a very low bar as it were
Yeah I understand that but I wouldn't call it assault myself**, just extraordinarily rude and unacceptable. Possibly even ruder and even less acceptable than asking someone where they come from.
This was from the former Queen's bedchamber-whatever lady, you would expect a reasonable level of etiquette and politeness FFS. I bet she didn't touch Mrs Windsor's hair without permission.
**I am not the law.
And there was me getting you confused with Judge Dredd 🙂
I lie about my origins because I was born in Dewsbury.
Isn’t that the same as seeing a black/brown/purple person? One of their physical features shows, very obviously, that they are not originally from here.
No, it's not. The lady in question is, originally, from Hackney. Assuming that she's 'not originally from here' because of the colour of her skin is, I'm afraid, racist.
Asked a related question of a colleague today over lunch, after she'd said something about going to visit family in Eritrea. Long answer/conversation involving north London, Ethiopia and Eritrea (language, religions, script, cycling culture, director of WHO, war her accountant father fought in for six years), and the fact that as her passport is Swedish despite being brought up here from the age of five, she's applying to stay and has done the citizenship test.
I didn't get asked the question back. I mean, I might have had an equally interesting if shorter answer. Leeds. Leeds is pretty interesting, right?
(Obv sensitive territory best avoided by unpleasant racists -are there pleasant ones?-, but many people like to talk about their backgrounds, and it would be a shame to be frightened of asking about this stuff, if not as an opening gambit. Though actually I will ask "what's brought you here" of someone with an obviously distant accent. I mean why not? Makes for a more interesting Uber ride for all concerned.)
There’s a big difference between asking “where are you from?” once and repeating the same question and disregarding the given answers more than nine times in a row. That’s hideous.
I’m sure that it’s a coincidence that the same aide has been the source of many disparaging comments about a mixed-race member of the Royal family too.
When I first read the conversation, a couple of days or so ago, it was a real, virtual facepalm moment; virtual in that I wear reading glasses, and then I was wondering if this wasn’t the same person making the unpleasant comments about a Royal’s child. Those Royals involved have been consistently trolled over this issue, in particular by that odious piece of human garbage Piers Morgan, but this conversation shows that this sort of overt racism is something that needs to be addressed and those responsible forced to confront what they’re saying.
Many folk think my name is French. Its actually Cornish
Well, there is the Breton connection between the two.
The sheer entitlement that is demonstrated by reaching out and moving her hair, uninvited, is breathtaking. But, then again, maybe it isn't - and that is even more concerning.
EDIT: And imagine the repercussions if Ms Fulani had reached out and touched Hussey's hair, uninvited. Her feet wouldn't have touched the ground on the way to the exit and her ejection would have been excused as a 'gross breach of protocol' or something similar.
Asked a related question of a colleague today over lunch, after she’d said something about going to visit family in Eritrea. Long answer/conversation involving north London, Ethiopia and Eritrea (language, religions, script, cycling culture, director of WHO, war her accountant father fought in for six years), and the fact that as her passport is Swedish despite being brought up here from the age of five, she’s applying to stay and has done the citizenship test.
Subtly* different though, you established they had an interesting story and asked a follow up question(s). Whereas this line of questioning was clearly going nowhere except an 'ahh haa, you don't belong here do you'.
*as subtle as a half brick through a window
I’m not surprised that you’re unsurprised.
Interesting though that Lady Susan Hussey’s father in law was colonial administrator in East and West Africa, .As educator and who has written several books on his experiences there.
So from that we can expect family photos and interest in family history of that country.
wouldn’t you think 😕
Africa isn't a country. Tunis to Cape Town is about the same distance (and far more countries in the way) than Vancouver to Lima.
Lots of differing views on the hair touching, the vast amount I agree with. An invasion of personal space, rude, humiliating and just plain wrong on many levels, yes, yes, yes. A form of physical abuse, in this context not for me but the laws the law and I’m no legal mastermind. We all have different scales of unacceptable behaviour. Would be a boring world if we all thought the same.
Threads like this are great for seeing different views and opposing opinions on potentially challenging subjects. Keep the chats going good people.
Always impressive that people who have had the benefit of a top drawer education can't inquire about a person's heritage in a more articulate and sensitive way.
Can't polish a turd I guess.
Is anybody actually surprised by this? It’s completely wrong but utterly unsurprising unfortunately. Old privileged lady is racist shocker!
I get "where you from, no really from" asked pretty regularly and I'm a white British person living in Britain, just a different bit to where I was born and lived for the first 20 years of my life.
I don't get offended by it 🤷♂️
^^ I'm guessing they mean what region in the country or which town?
It's just not the same situation.
freeagent
Free MemberMaybe all this gets us a step closer to knowing who it was who was concerned about the colour of Harry and Megan’s baby…?
Aye, there's definitely only one racist in the royal household and she is definitely a complete anomaly and definitely not at all representative of the culture and values of the institution so it must have been her 😉
I lie about my origins because I was born in Dewsbury.
"Dews Don't Count"?
I get “where you from, no really from” asked pretty regularly and I’m a white British person living in Britain, just a different bit to where I was born and lived for the first 20 years of my life.
I don’t get offended by it 🤷♂️
Possibly because
I’m a white British person living in Britain,
It is a different country, but still part of the UK.
I get “where you from, no really from” asked pretty regularly and I’m a white British person living in Britain, just a different bit to where I was born and lived for the first 20 years of my life.
I don’t get offended by it 🤷♂️
So why don't you tell them the first time they ask?
Ngozi Fulani didn't apparently have a problem doing so when the bedchamber lady asked her.
I think our pasts are a major part of who we are and not being allowed to be asked about them seems a bit sad to me.
no one is saying that at all. The point is when the answer was Hackney to the second time of asking then any further probing is not acceptable
Threads like this are great for seeing different views and opposing opinions on potentially challenging subjects. Keep the chats going good people.
Thought this many times about threads on here. I too not seen the transcript before. Disappointing that someone in such a position and privileged background would be so crass.
didnthurt
Full Member
I think our pasts are a major part of who we are and not being allowed to be asked about them seems a bit sad to me.
I actually totally agree, it's an important part of all of us but none of us should be asked to justify the answer, repeatedly.
The charity boss has said she is proud of her African heritage but she is obviously British and told the Lady so. The Lady concerned simply didn't want to hear that part I suppose.
