'Germany' (Charles)
A vagina.
Feel sorry for William on this one, you can’t choose your godparents, and we have no idea if she had any influence over him and his views anyway
It looks like she had a hand in the optics of his infamous Caribbean tour. Or people with the same colonial viewpoints, at least
I'm sure plenty of us visibly winced when seeing images like this? I remember being gobsmacked that anyone thought this was a good look in the 21st century
Isn't it sad that even now such questions are asked, likely only to people of colour. I remember how well Sadiq Khan batted away such a question asked by the BBC when visiting India/****stan:
BBC reporter: "does this feel like coming home."
SK: “Nah, home is south London mate."
My surname is Ernest, derived from Ernst. Great grandad moved from Germany to UK post WW1 and added the 'e' before WW2 to hide the German ancestry. I have never been asked where I'm from etc. and it would seem its a safe assumption its because I'm white.
I don't know why people get so offended tbh because the past is really the past. Who you are now is more important. The person asking the question might be ignorant or naive but that only shows who they actually are. Why the need to feel accepted?
Who you are now is more important.
A woman from London, is and was a woman from London. The offence has come at being repeatedly pressed to give the old racist the answer she was looking for as a black woman obviously couldn't possibly be from London (in old racist world)
How many generations are we supposed to go back to find our correct nationality?
Aren’t we all from Africa eventually?
dont be arguing with racists on twitter, because quite often they dont believe that either
Think we're getting only one side of the story, the lady who was 'interrogated' has supplied the transcript herself, and made a few guest appearances in less than 24 hours, and still is.
Not sure we'll ever get the other side, but it does seem the press are going to town on this, considering it's a 'she said' with no corroboration, yes 83 year old privileged white women were brought up with racism, sexism, etc, etc being common language, but i can see this could have been less of an 'interrogation' and maybe a royal style small talk, i.e. you're here representing a charity for African and Caribbean women and i need to make small talk whilst circling the room.
Again, if the transcript is corroborated, then release the hounds, but it doesn't feel like we're getting the full story here.
Slight different spin.....when the planes crashed into the twin towers and the news was all about Muslim's etc..... My dear old dad at his office which he had been at for over 10years suddenly got asked by his workmates what religion he was?...now my dad (who is dark brown) don't take crap from no one, refused to tell them , even though he has no religious faith whatsoever..his train of thought is...why does it matter? It didn't matter last week before the planes crashed...he only got asked because he is brown...or bald..lol
What if some one has an unusual name and you ask where it comes from?
Like I did this morning
Not sure we’ll ever get the other side, but it does seem the press are going to town on this, considering it’s a ‘she said’ with no corroboration
Pretty stuff there was a third party in the conversion who was also a little shocked by it all, so...
uggski
Full Member
What if some one has an unusual name and you ask where it comes from?
What about it? Did you get an answer you didn't like and then repeatedly push to get an answer that suited your narrative?
uggski
Full Member
What if some one has an unusual name and you ask where it comes from?
There was, and they aren't anonymous either
I know some people would love the balance that this story clearly needs but…
Pretty stuff there was a third party in the conversion who was also a little shocked by it all, so…
There was. I saw her being interviewed on TV (Beeb I think) about it.
My wife gets a similar interrogation from folk quite often. She is from Africa. It’s usually followed up with when are you going back home. She then tells them her kids were born here. They then push on with you must be missing home etc.
We still have a long way to go to get rid of racism it’s all over the UK. The recent issues with the Kevin Macavoy play in Glasgow is another good example. I’ve no idea how we can get rid of it. Maybe just a case of making it socially unacceptable.
Pretty
stuffsure there was a third party in the conversion who was also a little shocked by it all, so…
Sorry for typo.
Yeah, I thought I had read on the Beeb that a third part corroborated the conversion.👍
What about it? Did you get an answer you didn’t like and then repeatedly push to get an answer that suited your narrative?What about it? Did you get an answer you didn’t like and then repeatedly push to get an answer that suited your narrative?
No, we were having a conversation while I replaced a laptop at work. it was only reading this that I thought about it. But i started typing it when there were only replies on the first page and it moved on a lot by the time I hit reply 🙂
Her family was from Morocco and no, I didn't have to ask repeatedly.
A woman from London, is and was a woman from London. The offence has come at being repeatedly pressed to give the old racist the answer she was looking for as a black woman obviously couldn’t possibly be from London (in old racist world)
That only shows the ignorance on the lady asking the question. If the lady is set in her old ways I doubt there is a need to change her views. I rather them be themselves then to "sweep it under the carpet" pretending to be someone who they are not.
Just like my colleague who kept questioning why I am here (passive racism or prejudice if I really want to interpret his intention) . I just told him I am legal and I can. Also told him my father fought two wars for the British empire and was offered citizenship but he rejected the offer, in preference for staying in Borneo (silly old fool, otherwise I would rich beyond my means!). He never stopped asking. Rather irritating tbh but one day I found out his grandparents actually migrated to Britain for fear of persecution in Russia and middle east. My answer is very simple. My foolish idiotic father fought for the British empire without seeking a return and by offering his life, while his grandparents seek shelter in Britain to preserve their lives. Who contribute more? (a rather weird conversation between two "foreigners" to be honest but he is "white" with a Welsh surname but actual surname is unpronounceable LOL!) (at one point I was going to use the term "coward" but I refrained from using that description because it is no good for work relationship)
Thing is, it's not just going to be this once is it? She's been in royal service for 70 years, how many other times has it gone unchallenged (in and out of public). Unconfirmed rumours about Megan Markel etc aside.
Right to ask the same question back in response, would be only reasonable.
A few years ago at work (I was still fairly new there, getting to know people etc) I asked a (black, female) colleague how to pronounce her surname. Mostly, this was because I had to introduce people in meetings so knowing how to pronounce names was important and it certainly wasn't only POC that I asked - anyone with any sort of unusual name or spelling would get the same question.
I had a fair idea and I could also make a educated guess at the African origins of the surname but she was delighted that someone had actually asked that (rather than mangle her name or mumble it to avoid such things) and by having a conversation where she told me the pronunciation and I could ask "is that X or Y origin?" she then told me the origins of the name and the "where are you from?" answer without me asking a clumsy and potentially racist question.
There are certainly ways and means of asking that sort of question but I guess snobby royal hangers-on don't get taught that sort of thing.
Thing is, it’s not just going to be this once is it? She’s been in royal service for 70 years, how many other times has it gone unchallenged (in and out of public). Unconfirmed rumours about Megan Markel etc aside.
Why challenge? Why not just explain to her that time has changed.
There are certainly ways and means of asking that sort of question but I guess snobby royal hangers-on don’t get taught that sort of thing.
Yes, there certainly a way of asking without offending.
I always make it a point to ask people to educate me in pronouncing their names and surnames correctly. I can't pronouncing French because the muscle memory is not there.
I had to practice a few times to pronounce my South African (Zulu friend) surname many times because it starts with "N". While everyone struggles with the surname from my region "Ng". LOL! We had a good laugh.
p/s: my colleague who called me North Korean, a joke of some sort, actually caused a lot of embarrassment to one of my Scottish colleague as he thought it was full on racism but could only mastered up a nervous smile ... LOL!
“What business is it of yours?”
May have spent time/childhood in Africa on holidays etc. Loves the country, or even like many children of the diplomatic or military backgrounds were born or brought up there. Might even have friends born/lived there.
Personally I dont think there was a thing racial about the questions.
I think this is a case of looking for racism where racism doesn't exist.
You read that transcript and you think that thats 'looking for racism where racism doesn’t exist'?
Righto
It’s possible to have a genuine and innocent interest in someone’s roots
It’s possible to be “a bit clumsy” in asking.
That whole dialogue goes way beyond clumsy.
Indeed.
Taking this a step further though, what is the correct way to ask someone obviously foreign where they are from without it being seen as a loaded question? Just ask where they grew up? Sounds more like you're taking an actual interest but I could be wrong.
Interesting surname or otherwise I'd assume "what's your family heritage" for the same reason?
A vagina.
Incorrect answer! The only acceptable answer is "From my Father's Balls!"
Sorry, but I don’t agree on this idea that any interest is subconscious racism but then I’ve been asked the same question based on my accent and vocabulary
Yeah, fair enough, it's maybe not that anyinterest is unconscious racism. As ever, context is important, and I suppose the real question to ask yourself is why the question is being asked, i.e. what has prompted you to think that the person's roots are, for whatever reason, of interest. If it's as per your example, because of a distinctive accent or vocab, then that might be fair enough. If it's just because the person's skin is a different colour, not so much.
ask someone obviously foreign
As above, first ask yourself why you think they're obviously foreign.
May have spent time/childhood in Africa on holidays etc. Loves the country, or even like many children of the diplomatic or military backgrounds were born or brought up there. Might even have friends born/lived there.
Well, you must know where you're from, I spent time in France. Where are you from?
doesn't sound like it
Did anyone else hear Lady SH’s friend defending her on Radio 4 yesterday and, in doing so, just making it sound much worse? She rolled out all the usual rubbish you get from casual racists.
- She is form a different age/era
- There were not black people around when she was younger
- She can’t be racist as she has black friends
The woman was dressed in such a way that one might assume she was inviting questions about her heritage.
No she wasn't. I mean, if you've never been to London you might think that, but otherwise... no, not really.
Tell me what you want, what you really really want
Many folk think my name is French. Its actually cornish
I'm pretty sure Jerry originates from 1970s sitcom
This reminds me actually, I was once at a BBQ where one of the families there was hosting a Japanese student for a bit who was studying English. She was there too, she was nice, but her English wasn't that great so conversations were a bit tricky and had to be simplified to a certain extent
At one point one of the other guests said to her something along the lines of "can you tell if someone is Korean or Chinese..." and then mid-sentence realising that she was effectively saying "...because you all look the same to me". Watching her trying to dig her way out of that in such a way that the Japanese girl could understand, but that would not be hugely offensive, was both awful, and hilarious.
The woman was dressed in such a way that one might assume she was inviting questions about her heritage.
Questions about what she was wearing might have been acceptable ("I like that dress, where's it from?"), and then may have led to a conversation about her heritage. Assuming any heritage based on what she was wearing is suspect.
The woman was dressed in such a way that one might assume she was inviting questions about her heritage.
What what what ?
The funniest bit of an otherwise sad story is the ‘life time of service’ angle a lot of people seem to be taking.
franksinatra - that was petronella wyatt acting as an apologist.
Yes that one; johnson's former mistress - one of them - who had an abortion and miscarriage with him and then talked about it when he didn't leave his wife, as he had promised to do.
It gives an insight into how that group/'social class' think about people of colour.
Yes that one; johnson’s former mistress – one of them – who had an abortion and miscarriage with him and then talked about it when he didn’t leave his wife, as he had promised to do.
It gives an insight into how that group/’social class’ think about people of colour.
I don't wish to derail this thread, but it really doesn't. It might give an insight into how she views marital fidelity, but nothing else.
What if some one has an unusual name and you ask where it comes from?
I do and I have been. I’m half-German, which tends to illicit responses about WW2 and football.
But I’m not a person of colour so I don’t visibly stand out from the crowd. The crap that people who do visibly belong to minority groups have to put up with depresses me massively though.
This reminds me actually, I was once at a BBQ where one of the families there was hosting a Japanese student for a bit who was studying English. She was there too, she was nice, but her English wasn’t that great so conversations were a bit tricky and had to be simplified to a certain extent
At one point one of the other guests said to her something along the lines of “can you tell if someone is Korean or Chinese…” and then mid-sentence realising that she was effectively saying “…because you all look the same to me“. Watching her trying to dig her way out of that in such a way that the Japanese girl could understand, but that would not be hugely offensive, was both awful, and hilarious.
That reminds me of my female University Japanese friend from Yokohama who once said to my friend from London that she wanted to go to the "bug**r" bar instead of Burger bar. My friend tried very hard to keep a straight face, while I thought it was just another pronunciation. London friend then explained to me and we had a good laugh. Later that day we actually explained the meaning to her and she was slightly embarrassed. LOL!
Reading the original quote, i was going to say that it is clear Prince phil rubbed off on her. But i guess that is inappropriate
What if some one has an unusual name and you ask where it comes from?
I get this quite often. My stock reply is "my dad."
Of course it isn’t, but any intentions beyond interstest will be likely become clear very quickly.
Of course. In and of itself, "where are you from" is a reasonable question.
Go to anywhere non-touristy in the US and open your mouth, it'll be the first thing they ask. And they really, genuinely are interested and want to know exactly where you're from despite often having a grasp of UK geography which lends itself to questions like "whereabouts in England is Scotland?" It's harmless and quite sweet really (though it took me ages to find a satisfactory answer for them).
However, a persistent cross-examination including phrases like "your people" with a triumphant 'got there in the end!' is not taking an interest, it's Othering. You're not like us, are you, not really, you're just pretending. Why don't you piss off back where you came from.
I think this is a case of looking for racism where racism doesn’t exist.
I'm unsurprised.
