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Amazing how everything gets turned into a rage against the right on here.
This place could certainly teach a few fascists how to do the hate thing correctly that’s for sure.
What’s wrong with remembering war dead and injured ?
That gave it all, so let’s not try and take it away from them.
What’s wrong with remembering war dead and injured ?
Nothing if it is a personal choice and decision. However if you are wrapping yourself in poppies then its just virtue signalling. Especially if you follow it up with attacks on people since they havent copied your virtue signalling.
Especially when you have politicians wearing their poppies and shouting their support for various charities whilst failing to push policies which would actually help those injured directly.
That PoppyWatch tweet boils my urine - fair enough people putting on a show for Remembrance but "PropertyPatriot" shows how one thing has been twisted to suggest the other.
I dare say that most people buy and wear poppies to remember the sacrifices made by people when the time.
In terms of the first world war for me its remembering my great grandad,
who was killed, by a german mine a little more than a mile from his front door.
Let's not turn this into the usual political argy bargy on here, but remember the sacrifices made by so many.
The daily hate and co would probably have thousands of pages attacking him
So the Daily Mail decides what, if anything, Starmer wears on his shirt?
If the man can't decide for himself what to wear and relies on the Daily Mail to dictate his dress code then what hope is there in him being an effective Prime Minister?
Not that we'll ever find out.
Still, we already have a Prime Minister who tends to do whatever the Daily Mail dictates so I guess that's one thing less to worry about. Crack on Johnson.
If the Daily Mail has a front page headline screaming "Starmer in shirtsleeves at home without a poppy - how much does he hate his country?" All he has to do is provide evidence that his poppy was in his coat lapel. Sorted.
At the in-laws last weekend I noticed a giant poppy on every single lamppost in Biggin Hill. Every one. We have a few in our village. This is a recent thing. At work we have an internal memorial, but best of all, they match donations to RBL.
'Nationalism' my arse.
Here's one good reason I wear a poppy.
R.I.P. granddad.
I bought two pairs of Ben Deakin’s OiOi socks have I done the wrong thing?
If the Daily Mail has a front page headline screaming “Starmer in shirtsleeves at home without a poppy – how much does he hate his country?” All he has to do is provide evidence that his poppy was in his coat lapel. Sorted.
🤣 Pull the other one!
I've mates in the forces, and know people that have had injuries and long term health problems from service.
You need to step away from the thought it's old men who fought 40yrs ago.
It's a depressing thought that our governmentS don't provide more.
What about RAFA that just for rich flyboys?
I think anyone who signs up. Forces or police or fire services etc should sit under this umbrella.
Legion does some hugely important work. Regardless of whether you think we should have been there or not. Someone has signed on the line to say they'll provide themselves for national service. And in need we should back them.
I am very surprised at the posts - going on disappointed. We need to separate politics from remembrance and this is equally important for all countries involved in war - the people on the front lines were often not political, they were just doing what was asked of them.
I say wear a poppy to remember all those that gave their lives, and the lives of their families. They all have given so much more than pretty well much any of us on here could ever do.
Pull the other one!
Well yes of course, I indulged in the fanciful idea that the Daily Mail would even bother to report that Keir Starmer wasn't wearing a poppy whilst in shirtsleeves in his own home, never mind "thousands of pages attacking him" as claimed, precisely to draw attention to how it would be a non-issue.
We all know why Keir Starmer had a poppy firmly pinned to his shirt whilst sitting in his own home, and it had bugger all to do with the Daily Mail.
The cameras were rolling and he wanted to send a clear message...... "look at what a great guy I am everyone, I'm wearing a poppy. Please make me your Prime Minister next general election".
Anyone who claims he did it simply to please the Daily Mail needs to come up with a better excuse.
‘Nationalism’ my arse.
Just take a look at that ‘Poppywatch’ twitter account and you’ll see it’s been twisted by a few well beyond somber remembrance into fetishisation of remembrance.
It’s funny how those few also tend to lean towards the fash end of things, such as this place with its subtle, solemn tribute:
<edit> and it’s this sort of thing that makes me less comfortable wearing one that I might otherwise used to do. I used to go out selling poppies, would always wear one around Remembrance Day, but over the last few years the tendency for it or associated with year-long tributes on the back of vans, or on T-shirts, trainers, goodies, football strips etc tends not to be to my taste.
WW1 has still not ended 🙁 We are now on Season 1, Episode 3. That war will never end 🙁
I do think this is largely an argument which is had on the internet every year, rather than in the real world. Yes, there are some loons about, but that’s not the vast majority of people who wear a poppy (or indeed who don’t).
For my own part, I usually buy and wear a poppy, more to help current living veterans than as an act of remembrance, but I don’t always, and it’s more difficult now that I don’t commute at all. I often go to remembrance ceremonies as a mark of respect, but not always. Either way, nobody has ever, ever berated me in the real world for not doing either of those things, which frankly is the way it should be.
Just take a look at that ‘Poppywatch’ twitter account and you’ll see it’s been twisted by a few well beyond somber remembrance into fetishisation of remembrance.
Some people have better taste than others
Some people need to identify with something
Do it your way and be happy with that, don't let others take away from you your form of remembrance
November means spending my money on a poppy to remember my great uncle Robert Javes (died 16/09/1916)(Thiepval) for my grandmother (English), Andre Preveaux for my grandmother (died of injuries 1921)(french), Robert Prevaeux MC, again for my grandmother, P/O Len Gardiner DFC 44 sqd, B Cantelo 2nd Canadian Div (grandad), Uncle George (8th Army), Uncle Mac (Chindit), Uncle Will 1para 1944), Uncle Wilf 1para 1944….. it doesn’t seem a big sacrifice to drop a fiver in now and then…… I would love to have gone for a XC ride with any of them….. I bet they’d have all destroyed me… 😊
The act of remembrance is good.
The need for the poppy appeal to exist is not.
When we don't have to support armed forces personnel through charity then I'll wear a poppy with pride.
Until then I'll remember the unfathomable bloodshed in the name of politics, every poor bastard that was sent to die for "their country" and every person that came back with physical and mental scars they carried with them for the rest of their lives. And the shits that sent and continue to send them before abandoning them to charity.
Couldn't really give a hoot, but yon head bowed ww1 soldier silhouettes must be the most cringe inducing graphic ever made in history. 😆
I wouldn't really say it's over powering nationalism, rather it's more over powering tacky-ism. 😆
Wear a poppy as you wish.
Don't wear one if you don't wish to.
Either way do as you wish but don't impose.
“ Couldn’t really give a hoot, but yon head bowed ww1 soldier silhouettes must be the most cringe inducing graphic ever made in history”
My wife’s grandad, who died recently, watched his friends burn alive in a shelled tank he was in them with, he only survived as he fell out into a river which put his own burning clothes out. He crawled back on hands and knees to safety covered in blood and burns.
If someone wants to keep the memory of those sorts of fine people alive, and raise money for people who will endure those situations in the future I’m fine with however they do choose to do it.
Seriously, some of you need to take a long hard look at yourselves.
I'm surprised by the number of people on here either defending their right to wear a poppy and / or seeing a woke vendetta against those who do wear it.
I had to go back to the OP's post to remind myself that the question was what has the poppy come to symbolise rather than what it was originally intended to symbolise.
If wearing a poppy helps the wearer remember relatives lost or traumatised by WW1 then I can't see an issue. The thing is, not everyone did lose relatives in that war and some, for whatever reason chose not to wear one even if they did lose loved ones. So, to be 'forced' to wear one on public duty (especially on televisin) is surely disengenous and in part responsible for the politicisation of the poppy beyond a mere symbol of remeberence.
Sorry for derailing the thread by responding to the question posed in the original post.
I'm quite happy in my knowledge of the 2 world wars and a lot more wars beyond thank you very much. I don't need the cringe fest to learn about them.
If you do that's nice. Each to their own. Personally, if i want to learn about something, I'll go and read a book or watch a documentary. Pomp and ceremony isn't a particularly good form of remembrance, imo.
The moment you call it “Poppy Day”… A moniker added latterly for simpletons who can’t grasp the meaning of Rememberance Sunday (and what it’s about). 🤦🏻♂️
Seriously, some of you need to take a long hard look at yourselves.
I have, I do so with some regularity and I am entirely happy with what I see. Your post was not the cause of me doing it the last time I did. I also think the symbol has become a bit cringeworthy. And no, I am not going to say anything about my family's experiences of two world wars.
There's a Walter at work, usual type, trousers with loads of pockets, old land drover festooned with 'one life' shite. Wears twenty poppy pin badges on his work lanyard all year round.
I'd say then, that's the moment.
were they as shite as everyone said?! The whole thing was an absolute joke.
Are you new here?
Pomp and ceremony isn’t a particularly good form of remembrance, imo.
Most remembrance services are quite the opposite, usually a good test of thermals and waterproofs
You can watch other programs on the telly
Putting a couple of quid in a tin in a windy town centre is hardly a cringe fest
There’s a Walter at work, usual type, trousers with loads of pockets, old land drover festooned with ‘one life’ shite. Wears twenty poppy pin badges on his work lanyard all year round.
People identify with different groups and chose to show it their own way. If you were as critical about other groups you would be pilloried.
Until then I’ll remember the unfathomable bloodshed in the name of politics, every poor bastard that was sent to die for “their country” and every person that came back with physical and mental scars they carried with them for the rest of their lives. And the shits that sent and continue to send them before abandoning them to charity.
I agree the support for ex service people is very poor, I help mitigate this by putting some money in a charity tin and supporting those who want to improve the government support.
What are you doing to mitigate the issue?
So, to be ‘forced’ to wear one on public duty (especially on televisin) is surely disengenous and in part responsible for the politicisation of the poppy beyond a mere symbol of remeberence.
Sorry yes, to the OP it was on my radar years ago. It was more the garish blinged up poppies television presenters were wearing as a statement rather than a sombre reminder. See later 'Corbyn in a donkey jacket' headlines for further politicisation of the day.
Big 'n daft is right though, it comes down to taste and people have the right to express themselves as they please whether that's a red poppy, white poppy, no poppy or an amateur bit of installation art no matter how tacky it may seem. It's the act that's more important and as long as nobody is having something imposed upon them then I don't see any harm in it.
Of course I'm up in Scotland where its a lot less loaded.
What are you doing to mitigate the issue?
The same. Which as a single person feels futile but if people actually gave a shit could have some clout if everyone who claimed to care did. People bang on about veterans with PTSD, homeless veterans and such, fixate on the symptom rather than the problem and still vote for the same arseholes that created the problem in the first place.
That's why I don't have pride in a poppy, because 100 years later we still don't care enough about those who put their lives on the line to care for them afterwards.
If someone wants to keep the memory of those sorts of fine people alive, and raise money for people who will endure those situations in the future I’m fine with however they do choose to do it.
I don't think anybody is really arguing against the remembrance aspect of it. The topic is more about the distortion of the message which turns it into a nationalistic endeavour and forgets the actual tragedy of war. At which point it almost comes full circle and becomes the very thing that inspires war in the first place.
Where the propaganda does come in to the poppy is that it's really just a vehicle for remembering selected parts of British history. You know the Brits did do a lot of bad stuff too. Seems to be little remembrance of that.
Seems to be little remembrance of that.
Try reading the Guardian opinion section. There's little else. (-:
Pomp and ceremony isn’t a particularly good form of remembrance, imo.
Totally agree, but remembrance events I've been at over the years have been anything but. They have been solemn, quiet affairs with time to reflect on what previous generations went through.
MCTD has it. It is only a problem to those who want to poke their own political fire. Stuff em.
Nothing if it is a personal choice and decision. However if you are wrapping yourself in poppies then its just virtue signalling.
Just like taking the knee, glueing yourself to a road and stopping traffic and ambulances pulling down statues of people by people (mostly white rich middle class people) who have no idea about who the statue is and why the statue was erected in the first place, and all the other things people are tripping over themselves to virtue signal about these days - mostly to make themselves feel better rather than actually giving a stuff about the cause they're signalling over. So many seem to exhibit staggering ignorance about the thing they are virtue signalling about. So why are poppy's any better or worse than that? At least they are commemorating something real and worth remembering and being thankful for, where so many people are only one generation away from those who fought and died in the war so still alive in current living memory.
And as for overpowering nationalism, whatever that means if it is even a thing - well in England and Wales at least...it seems to be a real thing in Scotland, is that any better or worse than the overpowering anti-nationionalism?
I haven't worn a poppy for years. I've made donations in the tins at supermarkets and shops but don't take a poppy and I've never been abused or stopped and questioned why I'm not wearing a poppy.
I think politicians should wear one though especially if they are on formal duties. Not necessarily for themselves, but its the politicians who use the armed services as one of their tools to do politics and they should be more aware than most of the sacrifices that have brought about our freedom and democracy that they have the privilege to uphold during their time in office. If they can't be bothered to pay respect to those who've given up their lives to create and protect our freedom and democracy then they have no business being a politician at all.
I think politicians should wear one though especially if they are on formal duties. Not necessarily for themselves, but its the politicians who use the armed services as one of their tools to do politics and they should be more aware than most of the sacrifices that have brought about our freedom and democracy that they have the privilege to uphold during their time in office. If they can’t be bothered to pay respect to those who’ve given up their lives to create and protect our freedom and democracy then they have no business being a politician at all.
So the poppy absolves them of any responsibility to those they send to conflict? What's your thoughts on white poppies?
When does Poppy Day tip into overpowering Nationalism?
When there's questioning or criticism of those who choose not to wear one.
If they can’t be bothered to pay respect to those who’ve given up their lives to create and protect our freedom and democracy then they have no business being a politician at all.
No need to wear a poppy to show respect, you can be respectful to the fallen without one.
I don’t think anybody is really arguing against the remembrance aspect of it. The topic is more about the distortion of the message which turns it into a nationalistic endeavour and forgets the actual tragedy of war. At which point it almost comes full circle and becomes the very thing that inspires war in the first place.
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If they can’t be bothered to pay respect to those who’ve given up their lives to create and protect our freedom and democracy then they have no business being a politician at all.
This approach just makes it like wearing a tie or hankerchief in the suit pocket. A box to be ticked rather than something meaningful.
If you want them to consider the cost of their actions then everytime they vote to send people into battle they should have to spend the previous day at one of the rehabilitation centres.
Or instead of turning up to lay a wreath and then sod off to lunch on Remembrance Sunday they should have to stand and talk to all the survivors who turned up.
Ironically I’ve had to cut my bike ride short today to take daughter no.2 to town in her CCF uniform to sell poppies outside the supermarket.
They’re not supposed to travel on public transport in their uniform for safety reasons. Now that is crazy.
If you ever visit Berlin, take some time to visit the Neu Wache
Remembrance without the jingoistic crap.
When there’s questioning or criticism of those who choose not to wear one.
What about when there's questioning or criticism of those who do choose to wear one? Fair bit of that on here.
Fair bit of that on here.
Where? Or are you mixing up the poppy wearing with the house decorating?