[Closed] When does Poppy Day tip into overpowering Nationalism?

When the poppy is more important than the person.

I’ve noticed it too - having previously done some work to support armed forces charities, RBL wouldn’t be the first priority for cash plus they have a pretty hefty wage and HQ premises bill to support. Noticeable too how much lower profile it is north of the border.

When people overthink it.

It's intended as a tribute to those who gave their lives in war, and to raise funds for the RBL who support former service personnel and their families.

That is all.

Anyone who thinks it's something more really doesn't understand anything about it.

To answer the question directly, about 8 years ago, maybe 5.

the amount of commemoration of the First World War in particular to be overly mawkish given it ended over 100 years ago and no one who suffered in it is no longer alive.

I know where you are coming from on this and for a number of years have donated to the RBL but tend not to wear a poppy but a slight difference for me is that there are still people alive who were affected by the first world war if only indirectly- not many, but my father is an example. His father was wounded in 1917 and died in 1965 (I can still just about remember him in a very hazy way-I was not quite 4 when he died) He and his family including my father suffered the consequences of his trauma throughout his life. My dad was 90 this year and we were only talking about this a couple of weeks ago. My father served in the Korean War and he hated every minute of his National Service and has an ambivalent attitude to the Army and any authority in general and is as far away from your stereotypical veteran as you can imagine, but he does buy and wear a poppy each year for his father, mother and Uncles’ sake, one of whom died in 1918.

U woke lefties ar scum, its Corbyns fault! If your not dressed like this then you desrispect are war dead

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I’m sure many of you will think I’m crazy, but I can’t be the only one surely?

No I am sure you are not the only one. I suspect that it is widespread among those still desperately mourning leaving the EU.

I am more than comfortable having sombre anual reminders of the senseless loss of life caused by world wars.

Likewise the full horrors of the Holocaust, however many years ago it happened.

Lest we forget.

Edit : Just to add.......to buy a poppy and you put it on your coat lapel, and that's it. You don't put on your shirt every time a camera is pointed at you to show the world what a great patriotic guy you are. Like Starmer did yesterday when he was giving an interview in shirt sleeves from his home.

That I find nauseating.

I’m sure many of you will think I’m crazy, but I can’t be the only one surely?

Nope, never liked the nationalism of poppy season and just ignore it every year.

Here's my view on the matter, which is obviously worth sweet FA.

I wear a poppy (and drop a pound or two into the noisy cup) because the RBL support all of those service personnel who, if push had come to shove, would've been willing to put their life on the line for my freedom. And I'm proud to wear a poppy to show the world that I'm thankful, and that I don't take their selflessness for granted.

If people confuse a slightly-built, half Malay, spectacle wearing man in a pair of Bertie boots for a far-right nationalist, the problem's with them, not me.

No I am sure you are not the only one. I suspect that it is widespread among those still desperately mourning leaving the EU.

I think it was way before any thought of Brexit that this was a thing, on my radar at least 30 years.

I am more than comfortable having sombre anual reminders of the senseless loss of life caused by world wars.

Likewise the full horrors of the Holocaust, however many years ago it happened.

Lest we forget.

As am I - but I don't need a bloody poppy to do that. I've not bought one since I left school. Originally because buying a poppy seems to be a token gesture that we can all make once a year to absolve ourselves of responsibility for the long term costs of sending men and women to war rather than any association with patriotism (politicians who make that decision should be making the life long commitment to support those who come back in need of support). However, I have noticed an increasing link between the poppy and the uglier side of the UK - probably originating from some "Britain First" propaganda that seemed to appropriate the emblem.

No I am sure you not the only one. I suspect that it is widespread among those still desperately mourning leaving the EU.

Yes it does seem ironic that those keenest on using the poppy as a symbol of patriotic remembrance are often the ones most opposed to the notion of European cooperation that helped make sure we've had a long period of peace in most of Europe.

What MoreCashThanDash said.
& what Ernie said as well.

November

Do you mean Remembrance Sunday or Armistice day? Never heard either called 'Poppy day'. Wearing a Poppy is, or should be sweet FA to do with nationalism, patriotism or politics. It's a simple act of remembrance and a means of fund raising for RBL.

Some people may wish to attach some kind of political significance to it, but they can **** right off. As a veteran it has a very significant meaning to me and most of my ex serving mates and for reasons which are much more contemporary than WW1. I'm not some right wing knuckle dragger or 'flag shagger' as some bell end tried to imply poppy wearers were on here a few days ago. My politics, not that it matters as regards the poppy are centre left but people of every political persuasion wear poppies. To remember.

I believe in free choice to remember or not and give zero s**ts if other people choose not to wear a poppy. I do so for my own reasons, not because it's expected or because I care what others think, positively or negatively about it.

who dares not to wear a Poppy in a public role nowadays?

Me

I forget to put it on all the time

Surprisingly no-one chastises me either way

Back in the day people were really angry with the association with the Haig Fund.

These days it's just noise from angry people of either persuasion looking to virtue signal their approval/ disapproval of those who wear one.

Most don't bother either way and just get on with life.

Personally we should be expanding the whole thing to take into account the commonwealth etc it should be something that is a unifying thread in our shared history. Also we need to recognise that people died on the other side and that their dead need to be thought of whatever we think of individual actions.

I think it's the First World War thing that rankles me.

If the houses in the villages round here had murals painted on them of modern soldiers injured and killed by IEDs in the desert instead of silhouettes of 140 year olds fighting in neighbouring countries then I wouldn't worry so much that we've got our priorities confused.

More young men in the prime of their lives died in one day during WW1 than in the last ten years from IEDs.

How do you feel about remembering the Holocaust....... time to forget?

It's all a bit anti-german isn't it?

Makes me remember my nan. She (and a lot of the family, including myself helped a bit) used to make up the poppies and also stand for hours selling them in support of the British Legion. It meant a lot to her so out of respect for her memory, it also has my respect.

From the Blackpool South MP, he really wants to be an American republican.

https://twitter.com/scottbentonmp/status/1456389503128674310?s=21

Those Lefties won the war, then kicked out The Tories and built the NHS.

I don't think it's "overpowering nationalism" to commemorate those who've given their lives in service. But like many things that perhaps shouldn't be; it's become part of the wider culture war.

I've always viewed the Poppy as a symbol of the futility of War, sadly far too many people have hijacked it as a symbol of how 'We' won 2 World Wars and how it represents some sort of patriotism and honour. I used to wear one every year but not any longer, though I do donate every year still. I know too many people who have either served themselves or are part of a military family to not support them for doing something I could not.

My tipping point came about 2014, not long after the Tower of London sculpture. Too many people used it as an excuse to flag-shag the Union Jack, totally missing the point of the installation.

What’s “Poppy Day”?

No such thing surely

What’s “Poppy Day”?

My tipping point came about 2014, not long after the Tower of London sculpture. Too many people used it as an excuse to flag-shag the Union Jack, totally missing the point of the installation.

Strange. Not disputing that your experience was different to mine but for me it was by far and away the most moving poppy appeal of my lifetime.

To stand there in silence and focus how every single poppy represented one tragic death was deeply moving and sombre.

The crowds were unimaginably huge and there was no joviality or causal behaviour IME, just mostly sombre silence.

The primary reason for wearing a poppy imo is to encourage others to donate to a worthwhile cause.

Those Lefties won the war, then kicked out The Tories and built the NHS.

The @RachelW... Tweet is as unedifying as the MP's response. He should have just ignored it.

If the houses in the villages round here had murals painted on them of modern soldiers injured and killed by IEDs in the desert instead of silhouettes of 140 year olds fighting in neighbouring countries then I wouldn’t worry so much that we’ve got our priorities confused.

What you are missing is that it's the echo of a collective memory of massive loss. Also the shadow that those who returned carried with them. WW1 had a horrific toll throughout society, large chunks of NT property was gifted because there was no-one left to inherit.

What you are demonstrating is that memory is fading which in turn why the murals are done. It's also because it's long enough ago to not be as political as the recent conflicts in Kuwait, Iraq, Afghan, Syria, the Sahel etc.

It’s all a bit anti-german isn’t it?

Or Austrian, Or Japanese, or North Korean, or Chinese, or Argentine, or jihadi, or Iraqi etc. Do we count the cold war? Colonial insurgencies?

Best to just remember the loss, and that both sides have loss

I have no issue with the poppy. I do like them much more now you can get a pin badge though, rather than the paper ones that used to get torn to bits.
I wear it simply as a remembrance of those who fought and died, and like many others as a remembrance of family members who have served (not many in my family but a great uncle was in the first tanks at the somme)

even a subtle dig at minorities 

Really? When you think how many empire troops fought in both world wars, its just as much to remember them.
.
When Britain stood alone (apart from the Ausssies, kiwis, south Africans, Canadians, Indians, Caribbeans, Kenyans, etc, etc who answered the call)

Remembering the Holocaust is a bit anti Japanese, or North Korean, or Chinese, or Argentine, or jihadi, or Iraqi?

The question I asked was should we forget the Holocaust because it happened a long time ago and it might be seen as anti-german?

Although imo guilt for the Holocaust goes far beyond the borders of Germany, or one people, or one political party.

who dares not to wear a Poppy in a public role nowadays?

Me. I wear one of their silicone wristbands I bought a few years ago. I have something else I could wear to the ceremony. But won’t of course. Remembrance is personal.

When I got a ceramic poppy for my birthday.

I say it every year, when the politicians stop laying wreaths one minute and starting wars the next, or start properly caring for veterans I'll start wearing one. I give some money every year but don't need a poppy to show for it thanks.

The question I asked was should we forget the Holocaust because it happened a long time ago and it might be seen as anti-german?

Misunderstood your post

The answer is obviously no we shouldn't forget.

It does seem to have been ramped up over the last few years and become a "you must wear the poppy" for anyone in the public eye which I find a bit unpleasant and is just virtue signalling.
It has been turned into a look how patriotic and caring we are often by politicians who cant actually be arsed to fund the welfare of the current soldiers let alone pay adequately for those who got injured serving their country.

https://twitter.com/jdpoc/status/1443877367143825408?t=t-1_67FfqoXcKhmIyiuXPQ&s=19

Everyone on Bake off extra slice is wearing poppies on their shirts. I imagine everyone on HIGNFY will be too.

It's just not worth the hassle not to for people on the telly to not wear one ... And if everyone else on the panel is then it looks like you are making a point if you are not.

Could you imagine what would happen if Starmer didn't wear one when being interviewed?

BTW I buy a poppy and have it on my jacket

When I got a ceramic poppy for my birthday.

It’s just not worth the hassle not to for people on the telly to not wear one

Although it can be a hassle in some cases since they need to predict when a show is going to be aired and make sure they are wearing them if it falls into the virtue signallers window of outrage.

I'll donate but feel no need to wear a poppy. I'll raise a glass in memory of my three great uncles who died in the Somme and Grandad who survived Gallipoli.

but I can’t be the only one surely?

You mean you haven't decorated your house?

https://twitter.com/giantpoppywatch/status/1057617360083918849?s=20

Could you imagine what would happen if Starmer didn’t wear one when being interviewed?

No what would happen?

He would have to say that it was on his overcoat lapel if someone asked?

But he would be criticised in the right wing media, on Twitter etc and would have to explain why as you say

Or he could wear one on his shirt like everyone else on telly and it annoys one random bloke who complains on an obscure forum

Strange. Not disputing that your experience was different to mine but for me it was by far and away the most moving poppy appeal of my lifetime.

To stand there in silence and focus how every single poppy represented one tragic death was deeply moving and sombre.

The crowds were unimaginably huge and there was no joviality or causal behaviour IME, just mostly sombre silence.

The actual sculpture and the events around it were indeed very moving and respectful, it was what happened after it was removed that tainted it for me. It might just be a few local issues but there were a few people around my area who were very quick to jump on the '2 World Wars and 1 World Cup!' thing when the individual Poppy pieces were sent around the country to be used in local Memorial gardens etc. That's why I said it was after the sculpture not because of it. I know the local Poppy Appeal tried to distance themselves from the idiots at the time as it was hurting their efforts, as usual a small minority ruining it for the masses. Like I said, I still make a donation but I feel the Poppy as a symbol has been linked to other causes in the same way the Union Jack has been linked to being a supporter of the likes of Stephen Yaxley-Lennon or Farage. I'm even doing an organised charity ride for the Poppy Appeal this year and will observe the silence too. I just won't wear a Poppy.

No what would happen?

The daily hate and co would probably have thousands of pages attacking him just as they did when Corbyn apparently didnt quite bow low enough although oddly enough they forgot when Johnson turned up looking a complete state showing that it isnt even just virtue signalling for them but cynical exploitation of those who read too many commando comics as a kid.
I say probably because he is so ineffective they might not be arsed.

I wish they weren't plastic, even if you can recycle them (Sainsbury’s do a scheme, which is only useful have/shop at a Sainsbury’s nearby)