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That. There is a queue but it's conceptual and entirely contained within the barman's/barmaid's head, it should not be a physical thing.
A truly dying art unfortunately. I always prided myself on my staffs' abilities to manage the 'queue' appropriately...in fact, it was included in day 1 training for any new staff...no mobile phones behind the bar, there's never nothing to do, and always watch for the order folks arrive at the bar, oh, and acknowledge everyone (in your zone on very busy 'scrum' nights - cos city centre venues and all that) so they know they've been seen.
If was a system that didn't exist would you invent it?
If was a system that didn't exist would you invent it?
It depends what you think a pub should be, I guess.
If it's a place where you go with your pre-existing group of friends to sit at a table together then no.
If it's a place where you can go either alone or with just one or two other people so you can sit or stand at the bar and chat with the other weirdos who choose not to sit at tables then yes, you would have to invent some kind of system that allowed people to be served from anywhere along the bar.
If was a system that didn't exist would you invent it?
No. I guess it was just always like that as long as I'd known it, but, while it was like that, we made damn sure to be well known for the excellence of our staff's service, that's all.
Also in this vein, why are the slowest bar staff ever created now employed at gigs. i remember in the good old days when there was basically only three choices - a pint of lager, a pint of guiness or a pint of bitter, the staff would pre-pour the last two to speed things up between bands!
If you happen to like to sit (or stand) at the bar
In my preferred local the bar is only wide enough for about 3 people to stand and get served. But they have decided to have 2 bar stools there so when it's quieter and 2 people sit at the bar, slightly spread out, the only place to get served is by standing in between them when they're mid conversation. It's an odd situation but the beer is good so I put up with the temporary moments of awkwardness.
In my preferred local the bar is only wide enough for about 3 people to stand and get served. But they have decided to have 2 bar stools there so when it's quieter and 2 people sit at the bar, slightly spread out, the only place to get served is by standing in between them when they're mid conversation. It's an odd situation but the beer is good so I put up with the temporary moments of awkwardness.
In a situation like that those two people have chosen those perches for a reason - your temporary moments of awkness are like catnip to them
A situation like that is a perfect set up for a Clabby. Make sure you have a good Clixby lined up or you'll stuck there all night.
Tall blokes who are waving 20's get served first or ladies on a prettyness scale,
When I worked in pubs that wasnt the case. People waving cash were ignored on principle and, as one bar manager said, for pretty women fast service wont get a date so might as well admire the view for longer.
how flippin' many pubs are part of brewery/chain, and basically are not the pubs of old....
In the UK I think, if anything, the number of actual independent free houses has increased both in actual numbers and even more so percentage wise with the closure of many tied pubs.
The big change from "pubs of old" is the reduction in brewery owned pubs. Historically they dominated the sector but Thatcher passed the Beer Orders law which resulted in many of those pubs being sold off to the big pubco chains.
theres a local establishment near me, that even has a big sign "its not a post office, you dont need to queue like its on", but the server got really salty when i rounded the two hipster so and sos, who were busy comparing docker caps and sleeve tats. and had made no efforts to stand near or even close to the bar to do so.
"they were here first", well serve them then, barkeep!
That guy's always a miserable sod tbf.
Only ever noticed it at a couple of gig venues. I don't mind TBH - short people are disadvantaged enough at gigs, if a queue prevents impolite bigger people shoving in then I reckon that's fair enough. It must be more efficient when it's really busy.
I was in a pub the other week and a queue formed, and some old boy mouthed off that it's a pub it should be a queue.
Except the bar was along one side a narrow room, so the only practical way in or out was to queue along the bar, then walk out with your armful of pints behind the queue. Everyone's at the bar anyway, we're just shuffling left to right towards the till end. Besides I quite liked that I got to order my round with some personal space, rather than having the local alcoholic reeking of Rothmans and BO rubbing against me.
It's 16:40 on a Friday in an overpriced "country pub" that's been swallowed by urbanization, not 1:45am in some provincial town's nightclub.
Regardless of where people are standing, you don't jump your turn. There's a special hell reserved for people who when served prematurely don't reply "sorry, s/he was first."
+1, no wonder you "didn't half get the evils"
Same rules in the barbers shop, wait your turn queue or no queue.
I see queues forming regularly at Wetherspoons. I think it's always been a thing there, but I order with the app so I can get table service. However, I was in the Royal Oak, Ambleside on Thursday and that's the first time I've seen it happening in a wee, normal pub. The worst bit was that as I stood up to go to the bar, the six or seven young guys who'd all gotten up from their table next to me formed this queue. Then each one ordered individually....and they were drinking lager.
Flames and pitchforks spring to mind.
+1, no wonder you "didn't half get the evils"
In a pub? Absolutely not. If people don't get how bar service works in a pub, that's their lookout. Different for other places you might be ordering drinks (eg at a gig), but in a pub, queues perpendicular to the bar don't help the bar staff, they just slow everything down... ignore, walk past the queue, and stand at the bar.
In the UK I think, if anything, the number of actual independent free houses has increased both in actual numbers and even more so percentage wise with the closure of many tied pubs.
The big change from "pubs of old" is the reduction in brewery owned pubs. Historically they dominated the sector but Thatcher passed the Beer Orders law which resulted in many of those pubs being sold off to the big pubco chains.
I have a suspicion that all these statistics about "..... pubs close every day" are massively over counting.
Pub-co raises rent (or other economic pressures happen), pub goes bankrupt, pub-co finds a new landlord manager, pub re-opens, pub-co raises rent (or other economic pressures happen), pub goes bankrupt, pub-co finds a new landlord manager, pub re-opens, pub-co raises rent (or other economic pressures happen), pub goes bankrupt, pub-co finds a new landlord manager, pub re-opens, pub-co raises rent (or other economic pressures happen), pub goes bankrupt, pub-co finds a new landlord manager, pub re-opens, pub-co raises rent (or other economic pressures happen), pub goes bankrupt, pub-co finds a new landlord manager, pub re-opens, pub-co raises rent (or other economic pressures happen), pub goes bankrupt, pub-co finds a new landlord manager, pub re-opens, pub-co raises rent (or other economic pressures happen), pub goes bankrupt, pub-co finds a new landlord manager, pub re-opens, pub-co raises rent (or other economic pressures happen), pub goes bankrupt, pub-co finds a new landlord manager, pub re-opens, pub-co raises rent (or other economic pressures happen), pub goes bankrupt, pub-co finds a new landlord manager, pub re-opens, pub-co raises rent (or other economic pressures happen), pub goes bankrupt, pub-co finds a new landlord manager, pub re-opens, pub-co raises rent (or other economic pressures happen), pub goes bankrupt, pub-co finds a new landlord manager, pub re-opens, pub-co raises rent (or other economic pressures happen), pub goes bankrupt, pub-co finds a new landlord manager, pub re-opens, pub-co raises rent (or other economic pressures happen), pub goes bankrupt, pub-co finds a new landlord manager, pub re-opens, pub-co raises rent (or other economic pressures happen), pub goes bankrupt, pub-co finds a new landlord manager, pub re-opens, repeat ad-infinitum......
One near us just closed because massive roadworks cut them off for months, which is sad for them. But you ca almost guarantee the pub-co will have a new manger in and it'll be re-opened within a few months with massively increased rent because the roadworks are opening up the surrounding land for 2650 new houses. I's going to go from a struggling out of the way country pub to the only pub in a small town of it's own!
Net pub losses are running at about 300-500 a year, depending which recent year you look at.
That's accounting for re-openings and new openings.
But then there are "bars"... and anything else not a pub, but licensed to serve... the numbers of those are increasing faster than pubs are decreasing. But they're sited in different places, in different types of premises, and doing new/different things to attract different people.
When I worked in pubs that wasnt the case. People waving cash were ignored on principle and, as one bar manager said, for pretty women fast service wont get a date so might as well admire the view for longer.
I was just going to post the same. When I worked behind bars as a student, anyone waving notes around would immediately get demoted to “you’ll get served only after every single last person presently in this establishment has been”.
It’s a sure fire bell end signifier that usually precludes an order of 6 pints of Fosters or bottles of Budweiser incoming. The note will also no doubt have the remnants of the cheap, nasty pub gak (contains only trace elements of cocaine) that they’ve just been hoofing in the bogs
six or seven young guys who'd all gotten up from their table next to me formed this queue. Then each one ordered individually...
Young people often don't have the money (or the constitution) to buy seven pints at a time?
^ this would have saved me a fortune back in the day. Not because we used to regularly drink rounds, or because I didn't have the constitution, but I wouldn't have regularly been caught out by 'The Hilly Protocol' - named after our mate who had the uncanny ability to get to the bar in the SU first, get a round in during happy hour at 65p a pint, and then later on in the town centre pubs, or nightclub gently enquire 'didn't I get you a pint in earlier' and then you'd feel obliged to stand him a £2 can of Red Stripe.
Young people often don't have the money (or the constitution) to buy seven pints at a time?
Perhaps appetite rather than constitution - in that theres a younger generation who have entered adulthood accustomed to there being cameras with social media accounts attached everywhere they go both in public and private and perhaps don't have the same appetite for losing control that we had when we were younger.
Barnsley Trades Club 1990ish used to have a rail along the bar with access at one end and exit at the other. Its how we do it up here was the answer I got when I asked. Seemed to work ok.
i have never seen a queue in a pub here. I went to a huge city centre pub after the rugby on Satuday night. Hugely busy but just the normal informal taking ones turn to get a pint, done with.humour and goodwill with a side of "where you before me?"
just how it should be
^ this would have saved me a fortune back in the day. Not because we used to regularly drink rounds, or because I didn't have the constitution, but I wouldn't have regularly been caught out by 'The Hilly Protocol' - named after our mate who had the uncanny ability to get to the bar in the SU first, get a round in during happy hour at 65p a pint, and then later on in the town centre pubs, or nightclub gently enquire 'didn't I get you a pint in earlier' and then you'd feel obliged to stand him a £2 can of Red Stripe.
I had a mate like this, doing rounds he'd always get the last round in and then pace it so that he was going home when it was about to be his turn later, so he got in one fewer than everyone else today.
He's still the same today, though not quite as bad. He's earning easily double the largest salary I've ever seen and the tight git could peel an orange in his pocket.
just how it should be
I don't think it really matters, in honesty. So long as everyone is reading the same rulebook.
I see a formal queue when I walk into a pub then I am walking straight back out again. fortunatly I have loads to choose from locally
It happened during Covid when we were all required to socially distance and so has caught on (to an extent) since then even though the social distancing is no longer required. For a certain demographic of people who became 17/18 during the Covid/post-covid period this is the only way they know and the "default" method.
Like most on here (I suspect) I've been going to pubs for years and it seems kind of ridiculous.
But then again I don't care enough that I would push-in above 10 or 15 people who have been queuing. I don't believe joining the queue signifies that you agree with the method- just that you're willing to wait your actual turn by whatever means required at the time?
I'm sure most pub landlords and bar staff hate the queuing system though so perhaps it wouldn't hurt to just stick a sign on the bar indicating their expectation if it keeps happening.
I'm sure most pub landlords and bar staff hate the queuing system though so perhaps it wouldn't hurt to just stick a sign on the bar indicating their expectation if it keeps happening.
How are we supposed to have an out-crowd to tut about if there are no unwritten rules?
Good news everyone. Andy Burnham has revealed that there is no place for Yorkshire puddings in a christmas dinner, that there should be no clapping when the plane lands, and that he's against the practice of fans leaving the ground before the final whistle.
So from monday onwards this heinous practice will have ended.
On the topic of heinously divisive issues - where do we stand on the pronunciation of 'heinous'? Rhymes with 'anus' or 'penis'?
In one of the outlying sheffield pubs last night a queue formed at the amply spaced bar.
When it became apparent those of us towards the back of the queue thought it was nonsense, we together filled the bar en masse and let basic bar etiquette and decency unfurl to the satisfaction of everyone involved, especially those who no longer needed to wend their way through to get to the loo.
To quote a fella sitting nearby
"That's brilliant, it's a pub not a post office"
Penis.
Despite being chronologically challenged, I'm not normally one for misty eyed nostalgia and bemoaning change, but queues in pubs? No, just no. I would definitely leave to find a proper pub if I witnessed that kind of shithousery. Proper pubs and pub culture - including pub etiquette is, IMO too important to f*** around with. Yes it's quirky, inefficient and baffling for forriners and non-pub goers, but that's why we like it! We've served our hard earned apprenticeships learning all the rules, the subtle body language and eye contact to assert our place etc. It's an art form, a right of passage and part of the heady cocktail of stuff which makes you feel instantly at home, welcome and relaxed in a good traditional pub. If you just want an alcoholic beverage as quickly and efficiently as possible, go to an off licence or supermarket.
Fell victim to it last weekend, queue at the bar, I came in from a door at 90 degrees to the queue, took position at the end of the bar, in no way expecting to be served out of sequence, but was soundly ignored even when it was well past "my turn". The country's gone to hell in a handcart, bring back flogging etc. Eventually had to join the chumps in line but luckily the queue had diminished at that point. Binface needs to get on this, it'd win him Clacton in a heartbeat.
Despite being chronologically challenged, I'm not normally one for misty eyed nostalgia and bemoaning change, but queues in pubs? No, just no. I would definitely leave to find a proper pub if I witnessed that kind of shithousery. Proper pubs and pub culture - including pub etiquette is, IMO too important to f*** around with. Yes it's quirky, inefficient and baffling for forriners and non-pub goers, but that's why we like it! We've served our hard earned apprenticeships learning all the rules, the subtle body language and eye contact to assert our place etc. It's an art form, a right of passage and part of the heady cocktail of stuff which makes you feel instantly at home, welcome and relaxed in a good traditional pub. If you just want an alcoholic beverage as quickly and efficiently as possible, go to an off licence or supermarket.
It's Othering.
You? Yes you. You're not like us. Not like me. Why don't you piss off somewhere else. Two world wars and one world cup, doo dah.
It's Othering.
You? Yes you. You're not like us. Not like me. Why don't you piss off somewhere else. Two world wars and one world cup, doo dah.
I made a light hearted post on what I thought was a light hearted thread. And you respond with that judgemental, offensive bollocks? Because I enjoy traditional pub culture I'm what? A knuckle dragging roundabout painter, a football hooligan? A racist or Xenophobe? If that is what you are accusing me of, you are very, very wrong and bang out of order. Do you really see the world in that cartoon like way?
Are the participants in any activity with established customs and etiquette "othering" new participants or occasional visitors because they don't know all the rules/history. Ballet? Crown green bowling? Does that also mean they are Reform voting lamppost decorators who hate everyone else? Can you imagine a world where someone who enjoys pub culture, takes the time to explain to newcomers how it works, because they want to share it rather than saying "Why don't you piss off somewhere else"? No you can't, because that would require a moment's contemplation rather than a knee jerk post purely designed to offend, be edgy and get a rise. It succeeded. Well done you.
You are probably the most prolific poster on here now. Barely a thread escapes your keyboard. Which is fine, as much of your output is valuable or amusing. Sometimes however you are a complete ****.
Mate, you tell us. I don't know you.
You've just hit the Internet with a mildly amusing little rant to tell the world that you desire an environment that's baffling for "forriners." Tongue in cheek or no, how else would you suppose that might read?
Nice selective quoting to back up your snide xenophobia insuation. I said "forriners and non pub goers"? Any particular reason you would focus on one and ignore the other, other than to deliberately twist my words?
I wrote "forriners" (sic) to indicate I wasn't entirely serious. I was imagining a baffled American tourist who needed a bit of guidance as to how things worked. The same way I did in a US bar having to show proof I was over 21 in my late 50s last time I went.
I don't know you.
And yet you feel you know me well enough to accuse me of chanting "two world wars and one world cup" and telling people they don't belong and to piss off, based on what I wrote above? For real? Go back, have a read and tell me if you really think that's justified based on what I wrote. In fact don't bother. No need to waste yours or my time. I don't GAS what you think.
Nice selective quoting to back up your snide xenophobia insuation. I said "forriners and non pub goers"? Any particular reason you would focus on one and ignore the other, other than to deliberately twist my words?
They're your words, any particular reason why you'd hide one behind the other?
You're seemingly now "imagining a baffled American tourist who needed a bit of guidance as to how things worked" but would "definitely leave to find a proper pub if I witnessed that kind of shithousery." Well 🤷♂️ which is it?
And yet you feel you know me well enough to accuse me of
I'm not accusing you of anything. But all of this nonsense about xenophobia and football and roundabouts hasn't come from me now, has it.
You described your personal utopia of a Wetherspoons in Royston Vasey and then got angry at me when I challenged it. Was I wrong, did you mean something different? That's fine if so and I will sincerely apologise, genuinely, but it ain't what you wrote I'm afraid.
But all of this nonsense about xenophobia and football and roundabouts hasn't come from me now, has it.
Wrong. This came from you. Your exact words.
"You're not like us. Not like me. Why don't you piss off somewhere else. Two world wars and one world cup, doo dah"
There is nothing in what I wrote that gave you any justification to imply I would ever say or think anything of the sort. It's a deeply insulting and offensive accusation and a million miles from who I am. There is no right on my behalf to not to be offended of course and you can say what you like. I'm just grateful for the revealing insight into who you really are for future reference.
Wrong.
Uh. No? You dragged all that up, I called you out for complaining about foreigners who don't belong and you started ****ing on about roundabouts.
I said "this is Othering." Do you disagee?
It's a deeply insulting and offensive accusation and a million miles from who I am.
So what do you really think?
Your post was literally "I want to drink in a pub with people who think like me, and I'll go to a 'proper' pub if I can't." That was the ENTIRE reason why you felt sufficiently moved to post in the first place.
Isn't it?
Never mind whining about accusations, I'll apologise it I'm wrong. Am I wrong? I do actually want to be wrong. What did your post mean instead?
I'm not getting involved in some imaginary xenophobia spat, just to say as I did elsewhere in the thread that for some folk (not just 'forriners') queuing in pubs is a comfort, and to some of them, the bar scrum is scary enough that they absolutely would avoid a pub with a bar scrum because they are sufficiently scared of upsetting the wrong person who's six Stella's deep and feels someone has pushed in.
No matter what 'tradition' dictates.
Queuing doesn’t exclude anyone. The bar scrum does.
Uh. No? You dragged all that up,
FFS no I didn't. I quoted YOU, literally word for word. Your words not mine! A total invention of yours and completely twisting anything I wrote.
Your post was literally "I want to drink in a pub with people who think like me
It literally wasn't. I did not say that. This thread is all about queues in pubs and how we feel about them. I gave a light hearted view which you took exception to. You then felt the need to completely invent a diatribe about me saying "piss off home", "you're not like us", "2 world wars", "Royston Vasey", "Whetherspoons" etc. etc.
All utter fabrication, based on nothing but your wild imagings and I'm guessing your constant need to belittle and feel superior.
I am aggrieved because anyone seeing your post without reading back, may believe I actually said those things you made up. You've slyly tried to paint me as some kind of racist little Englander based on nothing, which is completely out of order. You may feel that's "whining" fine, another marker of your character.
I'll apologise it I'm wrong.
Then you'll never apologise. For anything. Ever.
I know fine well you have a childish need to always have the last word. Whatever. I'm bored of this now. You go ahead and make up any old bollocks about me that you like. I'm out.
What on earth are you on about?
I've explained how your post looked, suggested that you might want to clarify what you meant because it didn't look great, and offered to apologise if I'm wrong. Now you're on a tirade about "character."
I don't know you as I said, I have no beef here nor a desire to "win" anything and the last thing I want is to make an enemy. I've explained more than once now why I took issue with your comment and rather than elaborate as to what you really meant you're delving into things like post count as a rebuttal.
Much enjoying this thread. People upset that queuing in pubs is a threat to the traditional British way of life. FFS, if that's the worst thing that has happened to you recently, you've got things pretty good. Also, if pubs want to do that, they can and you can choose not to drink there if it's that much of a threat to your self-identity.
Give it a rest Cougar.
Anyway, queuing. I've considered it carefully and decided I don't care one way or the other.
The bar scrum is a queue of sorts, it's just that the rules are slightly different. Decent bar staff will ensure everyone gets served in turn.
I was in a club recently and a queue had formed at the quite small bar. The staff told us to use all the space and not to queue. Everyone got served quickly.
But if I entered a pub and there were queues no big deal, I'd just join it.
Also, I fully get what blokeuptheroad is saying. Those not used to the bar scrum may find it a little strange. I'm not sure how his words got twisted into anything else. Baffling.
