[Closed] What’s your take on the protests ( sheer number of people in one place)

Crazy thing to organise

Insane, but then DC has pretty much ended lock down...

It's sheer, not shear; that's what you do to sheep...

and you've said 'allowed' 3 times; what are you expecting here exactly? No one 'allowed' it, it happened because people are pissed off and because Dominic Cummings is a ****.

As whitty pointed out today, if u can't do 2 metres then masks & hand washing is next best

But still worrying,

But then none of the MPs in moggs conga were wearing masks & they were squeezed together at points

I’m sure the government were delighted. On the one hand there is bound to be a huge spike in infections, but on the other hand those infected will either be black or white, middle class, hand-wringing Guardian readers.

So by letting the protests go ahead they’re effectively increasing their majority

I've just been asking someone in the NHS about this - 2 cities local to me, (with a pretty low black population) have had big protests - the news showed people wearing masks and some just with scarves over their faces. So this'll stop (some) spreading the virus, but not from catching it. The protests are for a very worthy cause, but it's a crazy risk at such a time.

It's because people are willing to take risks for something they really care about.

The reasons for higher BAME mortality from COVID are likely to be the very thing that people are protesting against.

Moggs conga yesterday, bearing in mind Alok Sharma has just said he's got symptoms & is isolating

The reasons for higher BAME mortality from COVID are likely to be the very thing that people are protesting against.

You'll have to explain that, sorry. So you're saying it's ok for people to get/spread the virus, because that's what they're protesting about? I can't get my head around it.

The reasons for higher BAME mortality from COVID are likely to be the very thing that people are protesting against.

Lost me too are you suggesting the nhs are racist I'm confused

I fail to see how this isn’t just going to end up in many more unneceary deaths, unless we are truly done with covid and this government is lowballing how “effective” their admin has been of this crisis.

I think what it's about is frustration with white people trying to tell other people, especially black people what they should and shouldn't do, and some white people are pretty fed up about it too, but perhaps feel a bit helpless and confused and so joining a demo probably helps then feel they are doing something (like me posting this).

To put it another way, perhaps telling people they shouldn't protest about racist injustices and inequality because there is a plague now, even though racist injustices and inequality, perpetuated by us white folks, leading to black people being disproportionally targeted by police, etc, has been going on for hundreds of years, and continues to this day, and will continue unless we doing something, is at best ironic.

I think what it’s about is frustration with white people trying to tell... black people what they should and shouldn’t do

I think you've hit the nail on the head there.

perhaps telling people they shouldn’t protest about racist injustices... is at best ironic.

Though perhaps asking them to wait a couple of months rather than saying they can't do it at all might be prudent and not unreasonable? If your complaint is that you're being unfairly targeted for flouting the rules, it's perhaps not the best way to further your cause by organising a mass rule-flouting.

Wow, Cougar! Only BAME are breaching the guidelines...

Srsly?

And you have no awareness of any other explanation?

Anyways I'd say this is a better reason to risk transmission than meeting on beaches etc

That’s not what he said. He said white people were 50:50 between not giving a @#*# and treating people like lepers.

ethnic minorities catching the virus then just take a stroll around East Lancashire, you’ll quickly see that it’s because they’ve all been up in the park for the last two months playing *ing football and cricket every night. Asian lads looking to be in their 20s primarily but not exclusively. Zero * given about social distancing, they’ll cross the road to go and fist-bump each other as they pass, it’s like they’re actively going out of their way to defy being told what to do. Walk two blocks in any direction from here and you’ll find a yard with a barbecue, a kids’ party or a gang of lads hanging out, I think they’re all taking turns hosting. And sure, it’s been Eid and Ramadan, fair enough, but I’ve lived here all my life and I’ve never known it like this.

To answer the specific question which is not about the cause or showing *solidarity* - absolute stupidity, irresponsibility and recklessness.
Did none of them think....we're in a global pandemic, is this sensible?
Evidently not.
As an example of a prize chump, Barry Gardiner MP who has been self-isolating since
mid-March decided to break his isolation and join protestors today outside parliament.
R on it's way up.

Yeah not the best idea, but given Dominic Cummings’ donkey behaviour it’s hardly surprising.

Cresida Dick said today that the police backed off from enforcing social distancing rules at the protest as they feared trouble if they did. Just because things here are not as exaggerated as America doesn't mean that many of the same problems don't exist

The biggest danger for Britain is that we focus too much on America and fail to realise what the situation is like here.

As Dave said at the Brit Awards:

"The least racist is still racist and our prime minister is a real racist."

Don't say you haven't been warned.

Isn’t it way too early to make conclusions as to why BAME may have been more affected by Covid? It seems a far too complex issue for data that is barely a month old.

If the protestors had spread out, 2 meters apart, how many miles of streets would they have been visible on? How long would it have taken the police to move them on? A protest could have taken place that made the necessary and important point and the strength of feelings clear, without being so high risk in terms of infection.

Looking at a lot of the responses on here it seems the STW consensus is that if we intend to protest about racial injustice we should form an orderly queue in the time honoured British fashion.

Moreover, we should do it at the right (allocated) time, maybe postpone it for a couple of months. Maybe we could ask Derek Chauvin to be more considerate and save his performance for the cameras for a time when protests can be organised more safely.

inky, covid has no vaccine and our *gov* are clueless so....what do you suggest?
There is more I could say about protests outside of the US about a white police on black man murder; they show *solidarity* but mean nothing to anything happening in the US.
They may have some relevance in reminding UK gov that racism is alive and 'well' in the UK and effective action is long overdue to achieve a permanent change.

Looking at a lot of the responses on here it seems the STW consensus is that if we intend to protest about racial injustice we should form an orderly queue in the time honoured British fashion.

Moreover, we should do it at the right (allocated) time, maybe postpone it for a couple of months. Maybe we could ask Derek Chauvin to be more considerate and save his performance for the cameras for a time when protests can be organised more safely.

This is lunacy.

Of course it's lunacy, I was just paraphrasing many of the comments and whataboutary on here.

Franc,

Have you considered that a young black man protesting here might not be doing it (only) in solidarity with George Floyd but might be protesting because he's sick of being stopped, searched, harrassed and brutalized by the UK police and institutions?

inky - yes, I have.
15 years volunteering in homeless sector; have seen police close-up and their abuse of homeless.
Generalising hugely, police attitude to homeless is comparable with attitude to black/people of colour.
As an aside, do you have any direct experience of UK police behaviour?
If you have, your words have some value; if not....

@inkster - which protest did you join and why?

Even as a SJW snowflake remoaner tree-hugging card-carrying yoghurt knitter I find it difficult to believe that a virus is racist.

The virus has simply highlighted the extant racism within our society, lower paid FLWs are more likely to pick up the virus, BAME are more likely to be lower paid FLWs. That's my understanding.

The cause of the protests was/is legitimate long before CV19 hit, the problem is that the timing of the protests runs the risk of exacerbating the spread of CV19 and it as as much a signaling of solidarity with US protesters as challenging the UK situation.

Dare I say it when you've got an army of vapid dickheads packing the beaches on sunny weekends, a return to active protesting for real causes seems almost responsible...

Almost...

The virus has simply highlighted the extant racism within our society, lower paid FLWs are more likely to pick up the virus, BAME are more likely to be lower paid FLWs. That’s my understanding

I thought the studies into this were still on-going?

"excuse me old chap, could you stop this lunacy and postpone your protest against centuries of injustice until we tell you that it's ok to proceed"

It’s because people are willing to take risks for something they really care about.

Or because we no longer have clap for NHS thing and people want some meaning in their life.

Just wait until all McDonanlds are open, no one will be bothered about it then

@Nick

“Excuse me old chap could you postpone or ensure strict social distancing when their is a global pandemic that has claimed excess 40,000 lives in the uk in the past 3 months”
If this triggers another wave in which Bame will be disproportionally affected will we see a protest because of the protest?

Do you think this protest will affect the public opinion or policy in the uk? If anything it reinforces the idea of lawlessness in large urban areas.

@DezB

There is a somewhat controversial one coming out very soon. Something coming out this soon means they probably rushed it, meaning it will become a political document rather than a fact finding one. I could be wrong though.

I thought the studies into this were still on-going?

Are they? Is anyone currently studying this topic? And if so for what purpose?

I'd say there's a broadly reported statistical link between ethnicity, income, rates of CV19 infection and resultant deaths, and yes it is an open ended causation/correlation question. So yes it's a working hypothesis at present not proven fact, but it seems logical.

The alternative hypothesis is that CV19 is somehow managing to disproportionately target non-Whites which would presume ours is an utterly equal society, and no single ethnic group or demographic has higher risk factors... Do we believe that to be the case?

Even as a SJW snowflake remoaner tree-hugging card-carrying yoghurt knitter

I'm not racist but...

Morons be moroning

you’ll quickly see that it’s because they’ve all been up in the park

It's their own fault.

The British in general have been terrible at adhering to restrictions and have one of the highest death rates. Now compare that to Asian countries...

PoC in the UK are tired and can't take the systemic racism anymore. We're currently praising them as key workers, whilst we vilify them for our misgivings

Are they? Is anyone currently studying this topic?
This is what I meant. Sorry if it's not an "official study" - quick google, random result:
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-health-secretary-pledges-action-on-bame-covid-19-deaths-11999383

Anyway, I've said my view, as requested, so I'll step out before it gets all point scory like the other thread. There's clearly no simple answer, as ianc seems to think, but my brain can't cope with the complexities of it and arguing about such a topic isn't for me.

Or because we no longer have clap for NHS thing and people want some meaning in their life.

Just wait until all McDonanlds are open, no one will be bothered about it then

Coronavirus is already yesterdays news sadly. On the BBC homepage the three banner headlines are,
Former defence secretary disagrees with Trump.
Big breakthrough in Madeleine McCann Case.
Radio 1 leading a singalong.

I have thought for a while now that this is what would happen with Coronavirus. Everyone will gradually get back to a normal routine as restrictions are lifted and the virus will just be forgotten about. The ignoring of Coronavirus in the protests / reporting of the protests is very much part of this.

@DezB

There is superficial statistical assessment out on BAME deaths in the nhs, in this case they seem disproportionately affected also, even though infection seems to be happening at the hospital.
If we know one thing is that nhs is very good at treating all of its staff like shit.

@baboonz

Excuse me black people,

do you think this protest will affect the public opinion or policy in the uk? If anything it reinforces the idea of lawlessness in large urban areas.

If we know one thing is that nhs is very good at treating all of its staff like shit

Well, there's something I can agree with

Frank and DezB,

Why are you calling me put on what experiences I've had regards police racism and demanding what protests I've been on and why?

I was merely pointing out the discrepancies between those who have posted about how they understand what's happening in the US yet they seem to have a different set of values when it comes to discussing protests in the UK.

This thread pitches right to protest against threat to public safety during a pandemic. Systemic racism is a constant threat to public safety if you are black. Coronavirus will (hopefully) recede and we'll get back to some kind of normal. For some people any kind of normal means putting up with living in a racist society.

Protesters putting themselves and others at risk are being wilfully irresponsible because they know that by doing so they are emphasising that racism is a greater existential threat than coronavirus.

Wow, Cougar! Only BAME are breaching the guidelines…

Srsly?

And you have no awareness of any other explanation?

I wondered how long it'd take for someone to cherry-pick what I posted and come to that conclusion or similar. I did specifically say Asian lads in their 20s, I wonder why you didn't call me out for being sexist or ageist too? Missed opportunity there mate, a solid 7/10 for effort though.

Of course that's neither what I said nor what I meant. I'm simply relaying, anecdotally and I would hope without prejudice, what I'm seeing here with my own eyes when I venture outside. I can take photos if you don't believe me.

The BAME problem with covid-19 is hardly rocket science. Dark skin in Northern latitudes means even less sun/vitamin D than the white population. Look at how the Somalis in Sweden are suffering too. But of course, it's so easy to blame depravation and prejudice.

Now THAT'S science.

So a few weeks ago on a biking FB page someone was promoting a protest march against the lockdown itself organised by right wing group claim the government was taking away their human right of freedom. Please to see that everyone including me ripped into them from the many different angles of covid spread to there isn’t any freedom having been removed without a just cause etc.

The amount of people that have flocked to beaches and parks over the last few weeks while not abiding to social distancing rules has been ridiculous. The street parties for VE that all started from a distance but as soon as a bit of alcohol was consumed everyone is crowded and mingling with each other are just as stupid and likely help to spread it.

The protesters (regards of what you view point) full in to the same category of other idiots putting themselves, their families and the wider society at risk. What has actually changed that means the restrictions can change? Nothing, no cure has been devolved as of yet, it just the hospitals has space for you if the worst happens.