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Can we get this point settled once and for all - they do not drive like cars.
Thank you.
For me the benefits of a van (T5 os similar) is the ability to carry the family or 5 adults in comfort and still have lodds of room for kit. Way more room than an estate, and more room/comfort for 5 adults than an estate.
Just back from a family camping trip. 3 bikes, all camping kit, beach kit, walking kit, etc for a family of 4 (including a toddler and all they bring) away for a week of camping and outdoor activities. Plus all bikes and kit stored 'securly' inside the van, no racks, worrys about security and visibility etc when left.
I have an older T5, but if my budget was a little more I would have seriously looked at a much newer Transit Custom.
My only regret is not buying one sooner. I came so close to getting a T4 around 15 years ago, but bought a 90 and went down the dark Land Rover path for a number of years.
Cars do just fine, they drive better and are more economical.
Depends what car you're comparing it to. My T5 dtrives way, way better than the wifes Scenic, and returns about the same MPG (30+/-) as her Scenic and the Focus I had before the T5.
If I was to have a van I would love this.
Legend, I agree with you subject to a minor amendment...
Can we get this point settled once and for all - they do not drive like [b]modern[/b] cars.
They drive nicely for vans, ride reminds me of a Volvo 240 estate (not that that's a bad thing, the 240s were great cars)
Out of interest, for those who own / have owned - how many are self employed?
Many of the kit van owners around here appear to be small business owners, and I suspect their "lifestyle choices" get offset against tax 😡
Avoid the T5 lifstyle tax by buying a Citroen Discpatch, Scudo etc. Get a shiny new one for the cost of a 5-6 year old T5.
It's just as good.
It's really not
How come? Genuine question..
I suspect their "lifestyle choices" get offset against tax
😛
rkk01 - MemberOut of interest, for those who own / have owned - how many are self employed?
Owned a Caddy (still better than an estate for me) and the Mrs has had a company Vito and a company T5. So all paid for in one way or another
How come? Genuine question..
I've driven both, quite a bit. Every Scudo derivate I have had the misfortune of driving has been noisy, rattly and pretty crappy. cheap seems to be the only plus point. My mates had to had a ratchet strap holding the sliding door closed so it didn't deafen you with wind noise at anything over 20mph.
Not specifically a t5, but there's no way you can compare the practicality of a van to a large estate....
Mate of mine used to have a van as his company vehicle - can't remember what it was - might have been a LWB Merc of some description (Sprinter?). It was brilliant. For his brother's stag do, we managed to get 10 bikes (might have been 11) in the back of it and there was still room for 6 of us to sit in the front for getting to where we were going.
While it was in for a service he had a much shorter VW van and that was still practical, but not as practical as the Merc.
Obviously it had it's downsides - a bit noisy, thirsty, harder to park etc. but if you make frequent use of the space, I think they are a great thing to have.
As for the getting changed in the rain/ making tea comments there have been many a time when I have had to get changed in the freezing cold, pouring rain in a car park when I would have loved the comfort of a van to pile into & get changed while pouring out a flask of hot beverage and possibly eating a slice of cake.
Of course a van isn't essential, but then neither is most of the stuff we have in this life so that's a pretty pointless argument about why you should just stick with a big estate over a van, for example.
If you argue that, you might as well argue that a large estate isn't 'essential' and you might as well just have a small hatchback etc.......
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I have always fancied a Renault Traffic with the lowish floor but have it fitted with a remote door mechanism and fold out ramp so you could ride straight in.
have some pride man! bunnyhop in ffs!
I am too old !!!! and lack skills
Judging by the numbers of T5's that rock up to most MTB events (plus the wannabe's in their trannies and the like), the van thing seems to be very popular within the sport. (wouldn't be without mine now :))
but there's no way you can compare the practicality of a van to a large estate
Depends on how much crap you feel the need to cart around really. I'm prepared to buy a roof box to go on my family sized saloon car if we need it, and we haven't yet. That's with two kids now 3 and 6, camping since the first was 6 months old.
Ok so we don't windsurf, but we do bike.
I've recently bought a VW T4 off someone I've known for years. He's had the can ages so although it's an 03 plate with 210k I do know it's been looked after.
It's got a poptop, mini kitchen behind drivers seat, full width bed with three seat-belts 12volt circuit for lights and gadgets plus an inverter.
Its so unbelievably amazing to be able to drive off somewhere eat sleep ride drink tea. All at will. We had a van years ago and are happy to park up in cheeky roadside locations. We all either walk or ride to school and/or work in our house so it only gets used for fun. If you don't 'get' what a vehicle like can do for you then that's fine. But it's the best, just seeing it on the drive is a massive stress buster!
Mollie - sometimes, you're going to have to accept that not everyone agrees with what you think is right. We're getting a LWB T5, there's only 2 of us! We're even going to put bikes on a rack on the back! But we're going to sleep in it, cook in it, drive across Europe in it, go to events in it, and maybe even visit both mine and her parents in it. It's not going to be as economical as our Focus estate, nor as fast, but we can stay in interesting places, we won't have to pitch and strike a tent all the time - maybe 10 minutes from arriving to ready to sleep, and about the same time from deciding to leave. Works for us, and we get to be rude about those people who haven't joined the scene, even though we always said we wouldn't do it. 😳
Don't get me wrong, I "get" the style and the "kit" concepts...
They do look good for bikes & camping, but family kayaking requires length and or roof space, and it that respect something like a Mondeo estate looks like a hard act to beat???
Surely putting up with a few rattles and zero cool points in something like a Vivaro or Scudo more than makes up for the however many thousand pounds you save in their purchase.
I had a Transit LWB high roof for a bit. I loved it as I could stand up in the back to get changed after a ride in the dry. It was a works truck.
T3/4/5/6 are "cool". But are they worth the difference in cost compared to the next van? Probably not.
I just got this auto T5 below last week for work/trips away/bikes inc. carrying motorbike occasionally, seems okay so far touch wood. Always had Hiace vans before because they are so reliable but a busted foot last year meant I had to get an auto and this seemed the only choice (people warned me off Vitos). Was more expensive than a similar aged Hiace but I guess will always be worth more if I flog it at some stage.
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I carry kayaks occasionally and a folding front seat makes this possible without having to fart about with roof racks. I'm well aware of the 'scene' and didn't really want to be part of it, but cracked when the auto option became a necessity. Time will tell if I stick with it.
Mollie - sometimes, you're going to have to accept that not everyone agrees with what you think is right.
I am only trolling 🙂 It's because I think the T5 lifestyle love fest is a bit silly. It wouldn't be half as bad if people talked about all vans the same way.
As for driving across Europe blablabla - all fantastic things to do, and there are many ways to do them. It sounds as if the T5 is the ONLY way to do it dahling oh you simply MUST yah... Hence the ribbing.
we get to be rude about those people who haven't joined the scene
And you used the word 'scene'! Aargh!!1
I know, good isn't it?
Is this a good time to mention the T5 I saw yesterday with the plate
T5 00 YEA
I drive a VW California as my co car and sometimes eschew a night in a hotel for a night ride and cheeky camp in the van. It's my only vehicle and has served as boardroom, child entertainment centre and family wagon. We have had 18 nights away in it as a family and my daughter loves it. I'm sure there are better cars and I've had a fair few fast ones inc 911s and an RS4 but as I poodle around in my old age it suits me fine. Saying that there are a fair few around and at the GT7 the other weekend the car park looked like a VW dealership. At least they get used.
I've run a T5 and a Vito over the last 7 years and now have a Volvo est. I would have my T5 back in a shot, and infact i'm just waiting to see how the T6 is price wise, spec, etc. Been a LTD company means a van is a very tax efficient way of running a big vehicle, if you need one. They're not all that good on the juice, but no worse than a big MPV. They are THE most comfortable way of doing big miles with or without 5 people, and if you have a young family, they are second to none in terms of practicality.
Now you may ask why haven't I got one now? and I have to ask myself that question everyday. Truth, when I have the T5, VW had a lot of problems with the DPF, and mine was no exception, and the Vito........ they are just plain sh!te.
We're toying with the idea of one to replace the SMax, more as a weekend camper that we can pop off short notice for the weekend for family getaways, up into the Peaks, Derbyshire and beyond. Far less expensive than running an estate car and a caravan/camper van, and wouldn't have to live with the disadvantages and limitations of a large estate car - which have all the downsides of a big car, whilst not really being big enough when you need the space. They are the worst of both worlds, the SMax is too maybe to a lesser extent. You still need roof racks/tow bar racks, bike transport options that you need with a smaller car, so the extra volume of the estate doesn't solve your interior space problem. However though a T5 or similar would be massively compromised as a daily driver, it is perfect when we need the space (camping, biking, tip runs etc.). I don't do huge mileage so could live with the poorer driving dynamics. So for me the upsides due to the practicality appeals more than the downsides of it being a daily drive. Obviously it'd be a used one, new ones are just silly money.
Far less expensive than running an estate car and a caravan
How'd you work that out?
There are clearly advantages (and disadvantages) of van over caravan, but running costs?
Weve got a T5. Its a camper/day van conversion, but also the daily driver now.
I like driving a van because you are higher up, and its boxier. Much more comfortable in busy motorway traffic, as you can see a mile ahead over the tops of everyone else. Though in the car when i had it, i didnt have to slow down for corners for fear of sliding across the bench seat. a drivers seat with bolsters would be nice.
Its nice being able to put bikes in whole (I found a way of lashing down two bikes, where they wont move and touch each other, or the interior of the van, bed etc.
the "VWs are better" thing is utter BS IMO. Its fashion.
We have a Ducato at work which has had a VERY hard life, and it's still tight as it should be.
The two things that make a difference are:
1: you can ALWAYS get rid of a T5 (i saw one for sale with 600k on it!, where as anything else, you will struggle to give it away past 150k miles.
2: because they are fashionable "lifestyle" vehicles, T5s get treated like cars. People know they hold their value and are therefore more prepared to spend money on it. Other vans get treated like vans.
Ive never seen a Mercedes that isnt a rust bucket, and ive not heard anything good said about a vivaro/traffic, but i think whatever you bought, if you treat it as you would a car, anything will treat you reasonably well.
We had one for about 4 years, put about 70k on it, and still sold it for more than it cost.
I only sold it at the time because I got given a nearly new one for work (5.5), which I had for about a year, and did a lot of miles in.
When I left that job the one thing I didn't want was another van. We bought a big,ms lightly older high spec diesel estate.
I would never have another one. They drive like crap compared to a decent car, they arn't very comfortable, and you nearly always become the designated biking driver, as you have the van.
Give me a quiet, comfortable car any day of the week.
last year the GF and I were toying with the idea of an estate that we could at least sleep in if we needed.
after some deliberation we started looking for a van.
considered many, yet kept coming back to the Transporters. Vitos were rusty. Transit Custom was too new. Traffic/Vivaro was a bit plasticy. Having driven Ducatos and the like for work I didn't fancy spending any more time than necessary in them (very tinny and not very refined).
ended up with a LWB Caravelle with all the bells and whistles. so far we have been away for weekends and short hols more often than we would have had we an estate car. the freedom of being able to just pull up somewhere and cook, sleep, change and relax is great. if you assume we had bought a nice motor for 10k and had always gone to a B&B or hotel then within the last year alone we are not far off the purchase price of the T5.
i can carry five people (removed the rear bench) with bikes without having to use the rack. i can carry five people plus luggage and five bikes with the rack.
we can still get into underground carparks (common here in Germany) due to the height.
being a van it does mean that i tend to drive in a more relaxed style, but then that is fine by me. had enough speeding tickets whilst driving high powered Autobahn munchers.
it returns over 40mpg (6,7ltr/100km average over 4000kms) even when cruising at 65/70mph (normally set cruise control to 110kmh), although i generally avoid driving through town during the rush hour. if pootling along country roads or through road works at 50mph it returns 4.8ltr/100km (almost 60mpg!) 🙂 . it is refined, cabin noise is not any louder than my mates 3 series BMW (which incidentally has similar MPG figures).
the plan is to fit a sliding bed/bench set up in the back behind the 2nd row of seats. that way i can still load sheets for work and get bikes and other bulky stuff in there and lock the van. then at some point a pop-top as, [s]decadent as it sounds, putting your trousers on whilst sitting down is a pain[/s] we want to go away camping with friends and family.
yes, it is an investment, but it's not a motor we use for commuting and we don't have any other financial commitments.
oh, and check out the plate!
[img][url= https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7593/16907410237_2cf493a6a7_z.jp g" target="_blank">https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7593/16907410237_2cf493a6a7_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/rL3U24 ]MTB T5[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/72344643@N00/ ]sod_the_taxman[/url], on Flickr[/img]
i photoshopped the plate 😉 however, it is similar, but does not mention the model, just my riding prowess.
Mol grips, caravans cost money to run don't they?...insurance, servicing a loan, paying to park it in a field somewhere etc. not as expensive as a van, but an additional cost over running another vehicle, which for a large family caravan needs to be a substantial car with a high enough towing weight. Then you've got the faff of getting ready to go somewhere...picking up the van from the farmers field, loading it up etc. when you want to use it, so not quite as 'ready to go' as a van. And after all that you're stuck at 60mph on the motorway.
I do wonder if a lot of people who buy T5's have bothered to drive the new generation of vans from Renault, Vauxaul Ford Etc.
The T5 is an old van now. The new Trafic and Transit custom have better engines and drive trains etc. Will be interesting to see what the new T6 is like.
I have just ordered a new Trafic Sport to replace my old 13 plate Trafic sport. Its a 140PS model with all the toys for the price of a 3 year old lower spec T5.
I really wanted the Transit Custom Sport but that was 8K more than the Trafic when all the deals were taken into account. I can trade cool for 8K !!!
T5's are nice vans however but they are not the only vans that drive well and have a nice cab now, but they do look cool if thats important.
As for vans in general, I wish I bought one years ago 🙂 I used it for push bikes and transporting motorbikes and its brilliant.
Bazzer
At a gnats chuff under 2 metres and a recognised lifestyle vehicle, the T5 is actually a great van for crossing France, as you can travel the Peage as a car at half the price of other vans. If, for some reason, it tries to charge you van rate, just press the button and shout "camping car", and the operator will change your rate to car. Same goes for the Severn bridge. Just make sure you have a side window or 2.
I have a 2008 Vivaro sport SWB. Initially i loved it, it drove so well with a lot of power and having a big changing area for me in the rear was a game changer up here in baltic Scotland.
Then i had a problem with the injectors. A manufacturers design fault resulted in water being able to get into the engine bay and sit on the engine. This obviously corrodes the injectors. Before i found out about it being a design flaw i replaced one of the injectors, then 2 weeks later another one went so i put it into Vauxhall which after 6 weeks of dilly dallying i got my van back with 4 new injectors.
It now runs flawlessly, yes it's true that it does not drive like a car but i really don't care. I have a fold out bed in the back, leisure battery wired in with lighting so it is ace for weekends away and i am going to fit a captains chair next week and ill be finished.
For me i love the freedom it gives me. i kitesurf as well so when the weather is not so good having a van is a god send.
i had a Passat estate for 5 years previously so i can compare the 2. The van wins hands down for my lifestyle 🙂
[url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/official-van-conversion-thread ]Link to my build thread[/url]
For us, a family of six, it's just practical.Yes you can seat seven in Tourans, Zafiras etc but not very comfortably and no luggage room. Although when the time comes to buy a new one I think the new Transit Tourneo will be high on the list. Took one for a test drive last week and wad quite impressed. I liked the rear reversing camera especially.
Handling wise, our SWB T5 drives better than our Focus estate round the twisty stuff. The only downside for me is the multi storey car parks, but other than that, MPG is the same, if not better, storage options and generally its just more fun for the kids to have a van to mess around with than a ford!
I bought a SWB Vivaro crew cab off here last week, and have totally fallen in love with it! I can put six bikes and six people in, it drives well and returns a better fuel economy than my old Scenic. I do have a young family as it stands, so it just makes sense for us - I'm normally racing every week over the summer and the lack of hassle is a massive winner for us.
FFS I'm now trying to talk Mrs Weeksy into me buying this
Similarly, I've just picked up a 2010 Traffic van which I'm converting, and its ace to drive. Wish I'd known how good a van was as a general everyday driver, I'd have done it years ago.
mine was certainly up there for the comfort crawling round the M60/62 in the mornings....
Handling wise, our SWB T5 drives better than our Focus estate round the twisty stuff
On the other hand my LWB T5 is worse than the Mk1 Focus estate it replaced. It's good handing for a van, just not as good as my old Focus when pushing on. Lower springs would help as it's a T32 and sits quite high being lightly loaded most of the time. Having said that I can bowl along most roads as quick as I want/need. Traffic is still usually the limiting factor. Other than a twisty B road blast, I'd prefer the T5 anyway.
[quote=rkk01 ]Don't get me wrong, I "get" the style and the "kit" concepts...
They do look good for bikes & camping, but family kayaking requires length and or roof space, and it that respect something like a Mondeo estate looks like a hard act to beat???
Which is one of the main reasons I still have a Mondeo estate, rather than a T5, or maybe a Galaxy/Alhambra. A lot easier to load a big kayak on and off a normal car (and no, it wouldn't fit inside a T5 - it's over a metre longer than one!), I can still get into car parks with one on the roof. Meanwhile I disagree with wobbliscott about a big estate being the worst of both worlds - it's big enough I can just throw a bike in the back without taking off any wheels or folding the seats. Big enough that I've managed family holidays with the kids bikes and my bike packed inside the car. Big enough I can sleep lying flat in the back with bike and kit alongside me. If I need to take more, bike rack on the back and I could add a roofbox, though I've never yet felt the need. All whilst being pretty much normal car sized for parking etc.
I have to admit though, A T5 is still kind of tempting for lots of the reasons mentioned. I'm sure as a pragmatic motorist, molgrips would acknowledge that the low depreciation makes for low running costs even with the higher fuel cost - though how does servicing compare (has anybody done a full comparison of running costs?) Will probably get one if business venture takes off (and I can offset cost against tax 😉 )
It would take a lot of nights in a b&b to cover the costs of a t5.
I have had my T5 two and a half years and we have done over 60 nights a year in it.
So I can't be far off covering the cost of staying in a B&B.
Plus its still almost worth what I paid for it if I was to sell it.
Also I hate the whole 'scene' Why on earth would you buy a 40k* van to go and sit in a field full of other vans when there is a whole world out there.
*mine cost less than half that
Why all this talk of 'handling'? It's a van.....
pedroball - MemberHandling wise, our SWB T5 drives better than our Focus estate round the twisty stuff.
If this is true, there is something wrong with your Focus.