[Closed] What's Munich like?

never lived there so prob not much help but i have been a few times and really like it. of all the bits of germany i've visited its southern bavaria i'd happily go back to. i like the germans as well, best people i've ever done business with.

Lived in North Bavaria for 6 months (Helmbrechts) and loved it. The people, the countryside, any excuse for a fest!

Only visited Munich for the day but really liked it.

If it's like the other bits of Germany I've been too then it'll be great. Was only there for two days. Erding you say, beer!!!!!!

Expensive by German standards, or at least was back 5-10 years ago.

> What's Munich like?
Very lovely, but also the most expensive city in Germany, some areas make London look cheap. Obviously close to the alps (60min drive) so good for long weekends cycling or skiing. Never lived there but have family and friends there. Considered one of the richer/posher areas in Germany. Sven

Erding is where the Erdinger brewery is located.

Enough said, I think!

Here are the considerations:

1) Need to find a flat or house with bike storage naturally and preferably furniture (otherwise it's cheap Ikea for a year)

2) Language - will we really be fine everywhere with English? Or just in the big shops in the big city?

3) Healthcare - if we are there for a year there's a good possibility of another baby Grips arriving. What's that experience like in Germany compared to here?

The Big Blue gig not happening then ?

Ooh, the home of the 'Dinger!

Look at their happy little faces. It's because they drink good beer.

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It is, but the lack of a formal offer means I am keeping my options open! Also depends on how much IBM want to pay me and how much they want to send me around the country.

>Also depends on how much IBM want to pay me and how much they want to send me around the country.

Can you live with 0% payrises after year one + lots of being sent around the country ? 😀

I lived and worked in Munich for a year and really enjoyed it. Not only is it a very nice city, it's also a fabulous base for exploring other areas.

Once a contractor, always a contractor. If they don't give me payrises I'm off 🙂

Two things really impressed me about Munich when I was there:

1. There is a whole street of sausage shops (I like a speciality sausage, although I didn't go near the white ones!)
2. There were families sitting down to a hearty breakfast in one of the main squares with large steiners of beer at about 10am.

The Bravarians clearly know how to live.

I'm in Regensburg about 60 Miles north of munich.
That part of Germany is great - quality of life, alps the bavarian forest. Weather is really good - 30s in summer - snow in winter.

You probably wont want to live in munich center though. Its good to visit but living there is pricey and i found the people a bit arsey.

matt

Anyone had kids in Germany?

Can you live with 0% payrises after year one + lots of being sent around the country ?

Sounds like BT.

It's where Willy Wonka & the Chocolate Factory was filmed (the Gene Wilder version), so it will be ace!

I have a daughter (2.5 years)
Its good to have kids in Germany at the moment. Due to the low birth rate they are doing loads for families. We have good creche/Nursery through the my company.
Lots of parents kid groups where we are as well.

Went there on holiday about 10 years ago. Lovely place. Very wealthy city. Check out the Englisher Garden in the summer if you're into a bit of naturism.

Ah. Munich is one of my favourite places.
Spent most of the week there, every week, for two years a while back.
Perhaps the most cosmopolitan city in Germany (maybe second to Berlin now, I suppose), known as "Million Village"... ie. Pop: 1m, but still has a village feel (kind of).
Locally known as being more Bavarian than German and, definitely noticable, that the poulation at large appears more Italian/Alpen than, er, Aryan.

As above: Very, very expensive place to live (but, hey, I was on expenses at the time) and a brilliant base for further travel.

Big employers are Siemens and BMW - both with big ex-pat bases - so loads of precedents to follow.
No idea about healthcare as an independent (albeit EU) migrant - but do know that healthcare [i]quality[/i] is as per every German stereotype.

Have friends there still if you've any specific questions.

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Although i am quite badly dyslexic.

My In-laws live near Erding and have done for about six years. Erding is a lovely little town but seems quite quiet in my limited experience. Munich itself is lovely and I would echo all of the above, the Englisher Garten is lovely and well worth a cycle through in the summer. Generally German houses come with a cellar which is ideal for bike storage and even flats often come with a basement storeroom. I had my second son in Germany (Hanover) six years ago and the service was excellent with plenty of English speaking staff. My wife is a German speaker but was not is a very chatty mood at the time! You will definately 'get away' with English in most places but the Germans do appreciate the effort with language and if you are imersed in it then you should pick up pub and restaurant German pretty quickly.

Garmisch Partenkirken (sp) is about 1.5 - 2 hours south and has some great cycling. It is a ski resort in the winter but in the summer has some great cycling routes; lots of up and then lots of down.

If I had the chance of a year there I would be off like a robbers dog!

Hope this helps

Dogsby

it's full of Germans.

Germany - Formal, southern germany - even more formal! Worse parts of the country to live in, such as the Rhineland industrial areas.

No idea about healthcare as an independent (albeit EU) migrant

So what do you do then? You have private insurance?

I'm a bit more concerned about the actual experience of having a baby compared to the UK. We like the empowerment and personal involvement you get here rather than the hospital operation style you have in the US, say.

Plus don't really fancy spending 3k on letting agents fees 🙁

My son was born in Germany, my daughter in the UK. After my son's birth the wife remained in hospital for a week, which is the norm, plenty of after care and time to recover. Daily visits from the midwife who showed her all the basics of childcare. This was our first child though, but the one week stay in hospital was the same for any further kids. My daughter was born at 5am and we were asked to leave the hospital at 9am due to a shortage of beds, first midwife visit came 5 days later. Couldn't have been more different.

We had heard that you stay in hospital for a week, we don't really think we'd like that. We checked ourselves out the morning following my daughter's birth.

take a look at.
http://www.toytowngermany.com/

also "living and working in Germany" is a good book
for a start on insurance, health care etc.....

White boiled sausage and Weiss beer is a trad Bavarian breakfast.

I don't like beer.

Its ace if you can make the finances work.

Bike friendly, fast motorways south to the mountains, nice beer, good food etc.....

I have 2 mates living over there so have spent some time in the city and biking down along the river. Not sure if you are outside of the city but I expect typical german efficiency and tidyness!

ah, another episode of 'around the world in 80 days with molgrips'

Wonder where we'll go to next? 🙂

[i]1) Need to find a flat or house with bike storage naturally and preferably furniture (otherwise it's cheap Ikea for a year)

2) Language - will we really be fine everywhere with English? Or just in the big shops in the big city?

3) Healthcare - if we are there for a year there's a good possibility of another baby Grips arriving. What's that experience like in Germany compared to here?[/i]

1 Flats/Houses usually come 'bare' (ie you need everything including the light fittings and kitchen) and the landlords are looking for +5 years rental - and houses are 'expensive' by German standards, but normal by UK prices.
2 Learn basic German, especially you wife if she's not working.
3 No idea, except its insurance based

Also check on an NT tax code if you are German based, but UK paid.

I would learn German asap of course, but it's not instant 🙂

It's currently the accommodation experience that's putting me off, and the possible baby-having experience.

As a "proper" english speaker you'll be a hit. The Germans love trying to speak English. When their kids learn a few English words with us they flip out!

Houses - no problem you can get a good flat or house no probs.
It wont be dirt cheap but reasonable - and u cant be stitched up when renting like in the UK.

Health insurance - simple really. If your other half wont work stay in the state system (automatic) if she will, then go private. When our monster was born there were literally midwives milling round looking for stuff do.

I said to my company I want to come but... i'm worried about X,Y,Z help me!!! Normally they will help you.

PS. mention the war all the time - they love it!

Well I'm not working for a company, I am self employed. It's a contract position for 12 months. Private healthcare is something I'd rather not have to pay for 🙁

Plus I really don't want to have to shell out three grand for bloody letting agents fees, another three grand for a deposit and then on top of that have to buy an entire house worth of stuff including all kitchen appliances, light fittings and everything. Hardly worth my while doing the job.

I've lived in Germany for the past ten years. I've got three children (soon to be four!) who were all born here. The health care system is way superior to the UK but the Germans pay a lot for it. I live in Leipzig which is was part of the GDR and in the old East Germany Kindergartens are mostly free (which is not the case in the old West Germany) where the mothers are expected to give up their jobs to look after their children until the they are school age (something that is not the case in the old East Germany).

As for Munich it is indeed one of the most expensive cities to live in Germany but you literally have the Alps on your doorstep. For the size of Munich the people can be quite provincial too IME but overall I find the Bavarians to be quite accomodating.

[i]I am self employed[/i]

Then you are only elligible to private healthcare. If you shop around you can find some cheap deals especially as a first year foreigner (I paid less than the state insurance for the first three years I was here) and if you do need the health care system then you notice the difference between private and state (though I'm not sure about your wife/gf as it could start getting expensive if you have to pay for them on your insurance.....as a private insured patient you have to pay everything up front and then you get it back later.... including dental bills).

Oh and as for renting the whole system is much better regulated than in the UK. It's done by square metre and the deposit you pay you will actually get back as long as you fulfil all the renting criteria, unlike in the UK IME anyway.

Unfortunately the Germans see a kitchen as furniture and not many flats will have one fitted but some do so it's worth looking around. Other than that you could look for a fully furnished flat but then they are more expensive.

Does no-one think it's an issue having to find three months' rent for a letting agents' fee?

Give Munich beer a chance. The best in the world. Probably

Unfortunatley you want to live in an area that is attractive to a large majority of Germans and so the rent/house prices reflect this. In contrast Leipzig, where I live, has a surplass of accomodation and so it is a buyers/renters market. There are other options to look for accomodation such as [url= http://www.immobilienscout24.de/de/finden/wohnen/lp/immobilien1.jsp?ftc=1100010201&kw= [immobilienscout]]Immobilienscout24[/url]where you can find private landlords if you look carefully enough....but it's all in German. I can help if you need some translating.

[i]Well I'm not working for a company, I am self employed. It's a contract position for 12 months. Private healthcare is something I'd rather not have to pay for

Plus I really don't want to have to shell out three grand for bloody letting agents fees, another three grand for a deposit and then on top of that have to buy an entire house worth of stuff including all kitchen appliances, light fittings and everything. Hardly worth my while doing the job. [/i]

Hold the front page!

Shock horror, whinging contractor online...

Company in for the overheads or just factor them in if you contract.

3 Months Rent through the estate agent type people -
but private lettings are possible too - for beer + food someone will pick up the phone for you.

"The kitchen thing is really stupid" though

PS - We want to come back to the UK - but conditions are rubbish for engineers 🙁

Shock horror, whinging contractor online...

So I'm evaluating whether or not it's worth it to take a possible job, and that's whinging?

I keep bringing up the letting agents thing because I want to know what the alternatives are but also I am surprised that you lot think it's all perfectly reasonable.

Where exactly is it Molgrips?

I worked at IBM for two days in Munich. 😉 My experience went something like thus.

Land during a studded face convention. Lots of people walking around looking like this.
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It's raining.

Go to Hotel. It's raining. Flick through TV channels. Decide 50% porn, 50% Hasselhoff is not for me, go down to bar.
Meet two suspiciously flirty barmaids who spend all night trying to get me to go home with them. It's raining.
Get up. It's raining. Have breakfast which appears to consist entirely of very spicy sausage.
Go to office where everyone speaks perfect English (it's the law at IBM). Try and get information out of everyone but they've all clammed up (some political thing to do with moving work out of Germany).
Go back to hotel. It's raining.
More beer, more flirty barmaids. Sleep, get up. It's raining. Eat more spicy sausage.
Go into office. Everyone has called in sick. Not just most, *everyone*.
Call boss, he says I might as well come home.
Get taxi to airport through the rain.
Fly to London where I find my connecting flight has been cancelled, no more flights up North today.
Hire a focus and drive through the night at 110mph.
Dump hire car at Manchester. Drive home.

Hope this helps. 😉

That sounds great sam, I'll keep an eye out for flirty barmaids.

I'll keep an eye out for flirty barmaids.

If you're planning on another baby then mrsmolgrips hormones will do that for you.

Why are you looking at work in weird places- for a change, or is there a shortage of work here at the moment?

Working abroad is good fun. Logistically a bit harder now than it used to be of course..

I'm interested in this one cos it's a good job, the guy seemed nice, it's a good rate and long duration, it was one of the first ones to come up, and Munich is near the Alps.

[i]Hardly worth my while doing the job. [/i]

Yep, whinging.

Hardly worth my while doing the job.

Yep, whinging.

Evaluating.

Or should I perhaps do every job that comes my way and not be selective?

Molgrips

Just jesting, but as I'm an IT contractor and have worked in Germany, from a learned POV.

Each country has its pros and cons. And yes the letting fees are expensive, but thats because most Germans rent the same property for years. And the kitchen thing, well good kitchens are cheap and the industry is setup to put them in, and take them out - plus the 'kitchen room' is also setup for this.

Munich is a good place to work, but I'd be inclined to go 'single' first. We didn't, but at least I was a permie then and got certain 'advantages' probably not open to you. My wife though did find it hard, until after 6 months we met a nearby English/German couple with a child the same age as ours - then it got a lot easier.

My German is still crap though, as my collegues all wanted to improve their English...

I lived and worked in Munich for three years (about 7 years ago now).
I took my wife and two kids out there (were aged 2 & 6 at the time).

English will get you through without any problem but you will enjoy yourselves far more if you take the trouble to learn a bit of German.

Bringing up kids in Germany is far better in every possible way than the UK. Everything is kids/family freindly and you get far better familly allowance etc too.
Healthcare is far betterf than ours. eg when wife damaged cruciate ligament in ski accident, she had an MRI scan on the same day and saw the specialist within the next 24 hrs. Compare that to your typical "x weeks" wait here !!!
After we'd reluctantly returned to the UK (fixed term secondment), the whole family spent most of the next year asking when we could go "home again". Nuff said.

Erding is far enough away from Munich to have its own identity but close enough to use the S bahn to get into the city centre for a night/day out etc. I often visited colleagues who lived there and they loved it.

Tips:
1.Get yourself a tax adviser when you get there as you will pay lots of tax but will be able to claim loads of stuff back (eg new computer = tax deductable)
2. Put kids straight into German speaking kindergarten at the first opportunity. They will adapt and learn fast.

Can I come too?

It's where Willy Wonka & the Chocolate Factory was filmed (the Gene Wilder version), so it will be ace!

so there really is a river of chocolate?

Bringing up kids in Germany is far better in every possible way than the UK.

Sweeping statements like that make me less inclined to believe them 🙂

I'm not moving anywhere permanently, so it's only going to be 12 months. I don't fancy spending a third of my possible profit on bloody letting fees and a kitchen... Plus what about that medical system. It's not free, is it?

It's not looking like it'd be very profitable for me.

Well, I got the job 🙂 Bit worried about the accommodation still, but there HAS to be an alternative to the long term rental thing where you have to supply your own kitchen. There have to be lots of business travellers like me in an international city.

there HAS to be an alternative to the long term rental thing where you have to supply your own kitchen. There have to be lots of business travellers like me in an international city.

There are alternatives, but bear in mind that the greatest demand will be from single professionals, most of whom will have a serviced apartment paid for by the company, i.e. pricey.

Yeah there are serviced appartments around.

At this rate I am going to take my caravan down.

OK try a rental holiday home/flat in the surrounding towns, especially towards the lakes area in the south - somewhere on the the S-bahn e.g. Gilching. I'd tell you were I stay when we go, but I'm sworn to secrecy as only one room has a kitchenette - sorry!

Congrats on your job. Have you had a look at the link I sent you. I have no idea what price you are looking at but a quick search pulled up [url= http://www.immobilienscout24.de/expose/57077642?is24EC=IS24&style=is24&navigationbarurl=/Suche/Wohnung-Miete/Bayern/Erding-Kreis ]this[/url] which has a kitchen included in the rent. Some landlords/agents will fit a kitchen if there is a flat you like but of course it will come out of your monthly rent.

have a look on the munich forum, internations.org