[Closed] What's it all about, all this arguing on here? Serious question.

Coming in at the end (bin away)..............it's debate innit, which ensures we keep sharp and keep thinking. Entirely non-antagonistic insofar as it's not personal (dunno any of you, so how could it be?) but the battle of ideas does us good. Lots of us Brits are scared of full-on debate, but watch how plenty of Johnny Foreigners go at it hammer and tongs, and then end up embracing each other (or killing each other!) The great thing about a good bracing debate is that often a synthesis, a third idea, emerges out of the clash of 2 antagonistic points of view. That's great........and then we go off to lay/get laid. It's all about passionately held beliefs and feelings really, and a world without passion is dull indeed.

Emma82 what/where are you up to over the weekend?

OK dekadanse you'll do if Emma is busy

Ohhh no, drunk posting 🙁 sorry but I do still kinda agree with myself! Mostly nursing a hangover this wknd cynical!

Me too. I deffo need to get laid more. Wanna cyber?

Umm no thanks, I think I'll stick with real with the man next to me.ta for the offer though, very sweet of you. 🙂

molgrips

must resist.. but the minutes and hours tick by... someone may have replied.. they might be misunderstanding the point.. just a quick check

emma82

Ohhh no, drunk posting sorry but I do still kinda agree with myself

I think I'll stick with real with the man next to me

....................such is the lure of the STW 'argument'. How many previous posters opened this almost as soon as they awoke. C'mon, own up 😉

Sad ain't it, I have been awake since 5 though, booze doesn't let me sleep much so am now bored stoopid

How many previous posters opened this almost as soon as they awoke. C'mon, own up

😳

Narcissistic Personality Disorder

Symptoms (from Wikipedia)

* Has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)
* Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
* Believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions).
* Rarely acknowledges mistakes and/or imperfections
* Requires excessive admiration
* Has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations
* Is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends
* Lacks empathy: is unwilling or unable to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others.
* Is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her
* Shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitude.

Anyone fit the bill?

Anyone fit the bill?

me me me ... I even have narcissist tattooed in old english script across my belly in the style of a puerto rican gang member!

reported

How many previous posters opened this almost as soon as they awoke. C'mon, own up

Oh dear, I woke up 9 mins ago, maybe I should start leaving the laptop downstairs 😳

Druidh you need to get l...

😆

The "reported" comment was about a spam post just before mine.

If you'd been up and logged on earlier, you'd have seen it 😉

If the debating and discussion doesn't resort to a personal level, which is still debatable in my opinion as you don't know me, and doesn't degenerate into name calling and insults, there isn't or shouldn't be a problem. That said, the insulting does tell you alot about the person posting.So,get a grip and grow some you Fidiots! 😆

If the debating and discussion doesn't resort to a personal level, which is still debatable in my opinion as you don't know me

More amusing is when previous disagreements are carried forward onto other threads, sometimes weeks and months later, usually ending with the protagonist proclaiming loudly that they are being victimised, 'misunderstood' and bleating they are innocent of all accusations.

Sound familiar?

Been away a few days

read 1st few on page 1 and last few - hasn't turned into fun so I assume it's the usual carping

I'm out

I haven't read it all. I love the forum, it's a microcosm of the outside world. We are wonderful, nasty, beautiful, ugly, generous, mean, understanding, judgmental etc... in fact, human. Yeah, there are some keyboard warriors on here but so what, that's life, same as phone warriors, car warriors and bus warriors (who never want to fight man-to-woman, why IS that?)

Dissent is healthy. Long live dissent!

True to an extent, but many, or even most of the replies on here have to be based solely on what the poster has written now or in the past,

Isn't that the point though, you build a forum persona and have to live or die by that persona, no matter whether it is like the real person or not. But you should still be able to recognise the difference your internet persona and real persona and the origin of the comments, shouldn't you? And therefore not take the comments as personal or a personal attack.

Eg. I have an image of a fedora'ed Don Simon sitting on his balcony, sipping a glass of orange freshly squeezed between the thighs of a local peasant girl, overlooking the yachts in a sun-kissed marina while the local fisherman go about their business in a dirty harbour just out of view. How far that is from the truth I have no idea

That's a fair description to be honest.

More amusing is when previous disagreements are carried forward onto other threads, sometimes weeks and months later, usually ending with the protagonist proclaiming loudly that they are being victimised, 'misunderstood' and bleating they are innocent of all accusations.

Sound familiar?

I know for some this is the case for me though, my memory isn't good enough for that type of thing... 😆

I've been copying and pasting Elfin's posts and replicating the word for sometime now... just check out SafetyPin on Mumsnet.

Have you really? You best not have done, you know. Show me?

Oh, DO stop talking bollocks, dear boy...

See, when all people do is post this kind of insulting comment, I just see it as their inability to actually enter into a real intelligent discussion about anything, yet still feel compelled to make their presence felt. It's one thing to disagree with someone, but at least explain why. This sort of unqualified comment leads to things kicking off. I mean, it's very rude and disrespectful.

The respect thing is very important, I think. You may not like someone's point of view, but you should still try to respect them as a person. Difficult, sometimes, especially if they seem more intent on out-clevering people than being objective.

Have to say, even on this thread, there are attempts by certain individuals to make themselves appear superior; assumptions made about the character and psyche of others, yet little introspection. I spose it's very difficult to look in the mirror and see the truth staring back.

It's all very interesting, this....

And therefore not take the comments as personal or a personal attack.

That's a fair description to be honest.

Elfin wrote

Have to say, even on this thread, there are attempts by certain individuals to make themselves appear superior;

Woody, why?

I assume he's alluding to your tone Fred, which intentionally or not does often comes across as know-it-all/holier-than-thou etc.

Thankyou Al

To make it clear, I may as well skip a couple of posts and copy and paste what I said previously

ending with the protagonist proclaiming loudly that they are being victimised, 'misunderstood' and bleating they are innocent of all accusations.

Ok fair enough.

I do try to back myself up with facts, because getting things wrong does tend to make you look a bit silly. I always try to present what I believe is a valid and justifiable point of view. There have been many times when someone has been patently wrong, and I and others have proven this. I accept that this 'point-scoring' doesn't make for good relations though.

Oh, and I'm not, in any way, claiming to be perfect here. I have been open about myself, yet I feel some people are commenting on others, without first looking at themselves. It's also very interesting that one or two particularly vociferous individuals are conspicuous by there absence on this thread, or have simply made puerile, dismissive comments without contributing anything of real value.

But equally, Al and Woody, you both come across like that to me, in fact you're doing so right now. 😀

I spose it's all about perspective. No-one can really see things through another's eyes.

Odd as I read what you say as condescending , based on previous threads and unlikely to make the recipient feel anything other than insulted - you cant really have a go at someone and them moan at them for being a "victim" - whether you are right or wrong or have a point is not really the issue here. A lot of people would bite IMHO which is probably what you want?- 😯 I am doing it now as well 🙄
Skiled arguing and reasonable points but not hard to see how someone would take umbridge at what you/ I say. Elfin is wise enough to make light of this but we have at last reached the "game" is it inevitable?

It's a long way down from that pedestal you've built for yourself these days Elf.

That is not in any way to be perceived as bullying BTW - merely an observation of your current self-appointed status.

Apologies if that is not 'contributing' in your eyes but not every post has to be deep and meaningful otherwise this would be a very dull place. 😉

we have at last reached the "game" is it inevitable?

It could be argued that the naughty elf has been pushing for it since the first post and it has taken a long time to even get a nibble !

woody read Freud and displacement?

I am off as I believe this was serious attempt to discuss why we argue rather than have one.
Woody seems intent on the later whilst blaming others for this.
Interesting

elfin

completely unrelated to this thread, but i keep trying to reply to your email from weeks ago but my pc dies hangs every time, very odd but sorry i probly seemed rude by not getting back to you!

but anyway i am thinking of floggin that cannondale either frame forks and a few bits or full bike, let me know if you fancy a crimbo cannondale!

timdrayton@live.co.uk

Tim; yeah, could be interest.... 😀

It's a long way down from that pedestal you've built for yourself these days Elf.

That is not in any way to be perceived as bullying BTW - merely an observation of your current self-appointed status.

I wasn't aware that I was on any sort of pedestal. I certainly din't build one myself. Sure, I admit I work on my 'persona', but that's just for a laugh more than a front to hide any insecurity. I make no pretence that I'm insecure and in need of near-constant reassurance. 🙂

I am interested in your observations, though. In my recent attempts to address my 'behaviour', I discovered it was essential to take a step back and try to be more objective, which is hopefully what I'm doing here. I know I'm not the only one, so I thought it might be something others could consider too, in order to hopefully get along a bit better.

Recently, someone ranted that they wished SimonFBarnes' family all got cancer and died, because Simon had expressed a conflicting point of view on a topic than they had. I was really quite shocked that someone could react so angrily, and with so much hate, toward someone who merely expressed a different opinion. The other day, someone made veiled threats of violence towards my self. In the past, I've had really nasty emails sent to me, which is why I don't include an email addy in my profile.

No, I want to be able to use the forum as a positive resource. If, thorough my own actions, I make the experience less positive for others, then perhaps I need to address my own behaviour.

Woody; I find it interesting that you seem to be quite critical of me, yet haven't expressed why you feel compelled to comment as strongly as you are doing. I would be interested to find out if you, and indeed others, harbour resentment towards myself or others on here.

Cos I'm like, picking up some negative vibes, maaan....

No, haven't read Freud and displacement but I do understand the principal. It is however quite fascinating that you usually side with Elf, and despite the fact that your initial response to mine was critical of him, you are willing to accuse me of wanting an argument 🙄

I am off as I believe this was serious attempt to discuss why we argue rather than have one

BTW Junkyard, just so you know, my original post was not aimed at 'others' (or you) and the person who I thought would pick up on it, did.

ok then mate send us a mail or give us a call on 07846 690368

maybe the usual suspects should have their own forum for all this self-indulgence and gluttonous soul-searching
nothing good will come of this thread

nothing good will come of this thread

nothing good seems to come from many of the threads anymore unless it folks being helpful about technical bike questions. It doesn't matter what the topic is or how chilled out it starts it's usually a bun fight and egofest within a page. There do seem to be some righteous warriors who will covert everyone to their way of thinking or die trying.

It's doing my brain no good and it's just not fun anymore.

😥

nothing good will come of this thread

Nonsense. Several people have responded to the contrary. Your input has been nothing but negative anyway, and I can't recall you making any positive contributions anywhere else. I'm actually trying to look for ways where folk can help make the forum a nicer place, yet all you can do is show resentment.

I think certain people are envious of the attention others get on here, and post spiteful negative comments, just to gain a reaction. To me, that's worse than arguing.

The point of this thread was for people to examine their own contribution, and see if they could possibly moderate their own behaviour for the greater good.

FWIW; this forum is a much better place than when I joined a few years ago, when all sorts of casual prejudice and narrow-mindedness was commonplace. I think that's the result of all sorts of individuals challenging bigotry and selfishness. And also maybe some people being forced to look at their own behaviour.

I've responded to previous criticism, and have tried to change my approach to this forum. I have no problem in admitting I'm flawed.

It's up to others to decide if they could do similar. If people make an effort, things can be a bit better.

Or, you can just sit and criticise and be negative. But don't blame others because you're not having such a good time...

brakes - Member

nothing good will come of this thread

tazzymtb - Member

It's doing my brain no good and it's just not fun anymore.

Well how about if some people stop posting pointless negative stuff which contributes nothing ?

It isn't obligatory to inform everyone if you dislike a thread you know.

Some people appear unable to resist complaining about anything and everything.

Some people appear unable to resist complaining about anything and everything.

Oh the irony.....

Don't you start Flashy; you're as bad as anyone else. And you, Ernie. 🙂

It is however quite fascinating that you usually side with Elf,

what you're not listening to is that people leave this forum and get annoyed because of certain members who can't self-regulate their inane and self-indulgent posting

It isn't obligatory to inform everyone if you dislike a thread you know.

no, just the particularly rubbish ones
you few think you're in the majority because you're the most vocal and apparent, but there are hundreds of forum members who get annoyed by it all but don't post or stop posting because of the monopolising of threads by the few

FWIW... I'm really enjoying this thread. IMO it's a pretty good thread.

That is all.

TBH I only post a few things here and there. I like to help and give what info I can and pop in with the occasional (rarely!) witty comment, but know that if I were to post often then I would just be attacked. I've already been burned once so don't really want to participate that much.

I doubt I am representative, but I read often yet post once a week (if that) because I know that if I post more I'll get crushed by those who want to argue.... 🙁

what you're not listening to is that people leave this forum and get annoyed because of certain members who can't self-regulate their inane and self-indulgent posting

See, I can take that on board.

But seriously; take a step back for a moment. Read what you just posted. Have a think about it. Imagine how someone else might interpret it.

I have been trying this, and having some success, I think anyway.

[url= http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/a-note-on-the-rules#post-2016573 ]

Fred, you are a special person hence you get special treatment from us

That said you've recently become quite a model of good behaviour

😀

I must be doing something right. But fair point; it's very difficult to imagine how your words might come across to others, without knowing them. I have tried to give more consideration to this, as this forum isn't just for me, it's for everyone.

Why do I care?

Well, because I think it's worth making the effort. I know I'm not going to please everyone, and quite frankly I wouldn't even try, as that would just be too frustrating and bloody impossible anyway. But I'd like STW to be as positive a resource for others, as it has been for me. And I know that I, as a forum member, have a responsibility towards others.

See, I can take that on board.

No, you can't. If you could then you wouldn't have continued with the rest of that post. Or, in fact, continued to have posted much of your drivel with all that pathetic faux-spelling.

TBH I only post a few things here and there. I like to help and give what info I can and pop in with the occasional (rarely!) witty comment, but know that if I were to post often then I would just be attacked. I've already been burned once so don't really want to participate that much.

I doubt I am representative, but I read often yet post once a week (if that) because I know that if I post more I'll get crushed by those who want to argue....

I think this sums up why it's important for people to respect one another. I know I'm one of the worst culprits, so things have to change, from me, at least.

Flashy; maybe you too could benefit from bit of introspection. You seem to have a fair bit of resentment in you. Not wanting to pick a fight, but that comment was designed to provoke, and you know it. Why not take a moment to ask yourself exactly [i]why[/i] you wanted to provoke?

CaptainFlashheart - Member

Oh the irony.....

You're going to have to explain the "irony" to me Flashheart...........I am truly fascinated.

If there's one thing which puts me off this place, then it's the constant and endless whingeing about [i]everything[/i] - grammar/poor english, trade unions, all other roads users, BBC weather forecasts, Piers Morgan, chavs, other people's religious views, the X Factor, smokers, those on benefits, Tesco, fat people, MPs, celebrities, and so the list goes on ......endlessly.

Piers Morgan

brakes - Member

there are hundreds of forum members who get annoyed by it all but don't post or stop posting because of the monopolising of threads by the few

Until a few minutes ago I hadn't bothered posting on this thread despite noticing it when it first appeared, as I thought it was a pretty rubbishy thread ......where's the problem ? I didn't feel the need to inform everyone that I didn't like the thread.

TandemJeremy - I have previously called you a ****er, for which I would now wish to apologise. I appreciate the ability to share opinions on this site, and I appreciate your ability to do so likewise.

Damn it, sucked back in and LOL @ ernie complaining about negative posters and then proceeding to do exactly that, post after post 😆

Flashy; maybe you too could benefit from bit of introspection. You seem to have a fair bit of resentment in you. Not wanting to pick a fight, but that comment was designed to provoke, and you know it.

Actually The Captain was spot on and do you really think that anyone believes that your response is innocent, when quite clearly it is designed to provoke another 'nasty' response so that you can run away with your lip quivering.

Grow up and stop pretending to be a cross between an 8 year old girl and Mother Teresa!

To be honest people, this site and the variance of opinion expressed within, is possibly the most intellectually stimulating part of my daily existence. Not that that lacks variety!

It's great and all ok knowing what you think, but I do have an interest in other people's strongly held views. After all, in all humility I cannot be right all the time can I?

Actually The Captain was spot on

In your opinion. Not in mine. We are both entitled to our own opinions.

do you really think that anyone believes that your response is innocent, when quite clearly it is designed to provoke another 'nasty' response so that you can run away with your lip quivering.

And what exactly is the intention of [i]your[/i] post?

You see? It's all about perspective, isn't it? I see your posts as designed to antagonise, whether you meant to or not. It's my perception that you harbour resentment towards me, and in all honesty, from your responses, I really don't think I'm wrong in having that view. Am I meant to feel any differently? is the 'offence' in your responses, or in my imagination?

I keep wanting to post a thought or two here.. but I'm a bit fearful of getting drawn into an argument..

I've had to seriously reign in my argumentative side since joining this forum.. there's some flipping rude and arrogant and sometimes even just plain nasty people that post here and that sort of thing really brings out the worst in me..

I think it's great though because the skills of tolerance and patience that I have to master to continue to enjoy the forum must surely carry through into the rest of my life..?

I like Elfins little crusade of public self discovery that he's on too.. when I first joined the place seemed to be very firmly in the hands of a jeering sneering set.. I really really hope that Elfs dedication to becoming a better forum member himself will help let those who peddle unpleasantness realise that a lot of folk here don't really have much time for it.. I really think it's the nasty little comments that cause the most aggrevation and dischord and consequent deviance from topic for a slanging match...

Poor old Teej for example gets hounded and ridiculed for having a point of view and sticking to it by folk who aren't the remotest bit interested in the debate he's engaged in.. they just wanna have a pop at his method of debate.. to correct him..
why..?

And people are now having a pop at whether Elfs own bleeding thread is valid..!?

why..?

EDIT: maybe Elfs post above partly answers the question when he speaks about perspective..

I expressed an opinion elf, take it how you want.

BTW if you conduct one of your much vaunted self-analysis, you will see that the point which Flashheart made was entirely correct.

what you're not listening to is that people leave this forum and get annoyed because of certain members who can't self-regulate their inane and self-indulgent posting

See, I can take that on board.

Which you immediately followed with..... blah.............memememememe.......blah blah.. ..........memememe........blahblah.... ....memememe............

Get the picture now ?

Woody - Member

LOL @ ernie

Well that means a lot to me..........so it's nice to have that pointed out - thanks 8)

.......even though it was caused by a completely imaginary perception.

When your arguing with a fool
Make sure he isn't doing the same thing........wise words maybe

Have you been drinking ernie ? I know I have 😉

what you're not listening to is that people leave this forum and get annoyed because of certain members who can't self-regulate their inane and self-indulgent posting

people surely also leave the forum because they encounter rude and condescending negative responses to perfectly reasonable posts/threads.. I would imagine it's this reason that causes most offence..?

they just wanna have a pop at his method of debate.. to correct him..
why..?

There is a good way and a bad way, but sometimes TJ needs to be corrected. 😉

Woody; not really, no. I've been very open and as honest as possible, while you've actually failed to answer questions I've asked of you, instead choosing to attack attack attack. Which in a bizarre way, actually helps me to understand the situation within myself, all the more. So, thank you, however unwitting you may have been in this process.

I will instead choose to be nourished by comments such as Yunki's above, which are themselves very constructive and ultimately positive, I think. I'm happy that some people at least have understood the point of this thread, and have made some very valuable contributions. I genuinely appreciate that. I think only good can come of this.

No Woody, I haven't been drinking.

Why do you ask.......is because you think I'm talking nonsense ?

Do you think I wouldn't be talking nonsense if I was sober ?

If that's the case, thank you ..........it's nice to know you feel that level of confidence in what I say. Although you are almost certainly wrong to do so.

yunki +1
I think most people , in the real world, are used to debating what they dont have to do is be insulted for their views. In the real world very few people are that rude and if they are you/almost everyone just ignores them. You cannot do this on a forum so it is perhaps a release from the social constraints of civility for some to just insult and continue doing so. I would assume people prefer not to be insulted than insulted and, as yunki says, this puts people off more than the fact that people hold a differeing opinion to them.

So, thank you, however unwitting you may have been in this process.

Was that a witty put down (or a diluted Fred re-sufacing), or am I too being infected with a healthy dose of paranoia?

P*E*A*C*E

Life's too short to argue, OK?

8)

I don't come here for an argument. If someone post something which is way of what i think, i'm interested to find out how another reasonable person can be exposed to pretty much the same evidence as me and yet come to a completely different conclusion. Of course this means exploring why they think what they think. Sometimes but not often we reach the underlying principal or axiom where we diverge. Sometimes this can be addressed other times it explains why we disagree. Though there are occasions where someone will respond to this kind of enquiry in an unnecessarily rude manner, then i get drawn into trying to make them look stupid.