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Just as well not everyone shares your beliefs then, that way leads to dictatorships and totalitarian governments. Another good thing about our country, it has a form of democracy that allows the quiet masses to express their views without people like you being able to denigrate them.
I read this thread than had to go away and think about what set of circumstances could get the Brits in their apathy to rise up in any sort of coherent revolution.
What circumstances these days could give rise to a modern day Cromwell?
I really couldn't think, we're already more repressed than ever we have been in our history, but as long as we have the telly and our 'stuff' to buy i don't think there's much that would provoke much more than the odd march.
Maybe if in a total fantasy situation say Islam ever wrested Governmental control and tried to apply sharia law, but that's about as far fetched as I could consider. It would have to be something pretty damned totalitarian.
I really couldn't think, we're already more repressed than ever we have been in our history,
I take it you haven't studied history very closely?
I really couldn't think, we're already more repressed than ever we have been in our history
😆
I really couldn't think, we're already more repressed than ever we have been in our history,
😆
And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look after themselves first.
This is how the Philippines works and it is precisely for that reason, that it has the problems that it does. People do not care for society or the rule of law, what comes first is family. Corruption, bribery, violence and the extreme poverty of ones neighbour are all justified by the needs or wants of ones immediate family. Government is small, there is little regulation, I have said it time and time again but Americans of the libertarian bent should visit to see just what a laissez faire society looks like.
Most Tories wouldn't be able to survive in such a society, machiavellian malefactors like myself on the other hand...do just fine. Be careful what you wish for.
More repressed than ever before?
Your view of history is sadly rose tinted
Yes, the Middle Ages weren't brilliant.
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However, just because it's been a lot worse in the past doesn't mean we have to be happy with the way things are now.
However, just because it's been a lot worse in the past doesn't mean we have to be happy with the way things are now.
However, if there hasn't been a successful revolution in all that time & only a damp squib in 1381 then I would have thought the chances of one happening just now are rather small.
"what would be needed for there to be e revolution?" Easy access to large stockpiles of AK47's and RPG's seems to be a prerequisite (or the equiv for that period in time)
Didn't we have one in the 1640s ish ?
Oliver Cromwell, remember him?
Kings Charles I & II?
However, just because it's been a lot worse in the past doesn't mean we have to be happy with the way things are now.
No.
But you need to have a believable mechanism for delivering improvement. And that's not something I'm seeing.
I feed, shelter and cure myself. What is your point exactly?
I'm not given to rudeness on web fora but this little question proves either staggering ignorance or brazen disingenuity.
There couldn't be a greater contast than in this thread between the majority who understand their responsibilities as members of a functioning society and the few who are only concerned with their rights.
Didn't we have one in the 1640s ish ?
Oliver Cromwell, remember him?
The Civil War was not a revolution in the sense the OP means. It certainly wasn't the peasants/working classes rising up against the opressors. Exactly what it was is still the subject of a debate, but essentially there wasn't a great deal of difference between the Roundheads & Cavaliers in terms of class.
john_drummer - MemberDidn't we have one in the 1640s ish ?
Oliver Cromwell, remember him?
Kings Charles I & II?
Exactly.
We don't have revolutions anymore because we know how good we are at them.
The Glorious Revolution?
But you need to have a believable mechanism for delivering improvement. And that's not something I'm seeing.
That's the current problem - the Westminster system is not representative, so the votes of most people don't matter - it's possible to win complete control with only 20-30% of the vote. Then add in the second-largest unelected chamber in the World, and political parties which don't have any principles other than "say whatever it takes to get elected".
It's no wonder voter turnout keeps falling - people don't believe there's much point.
The nation in which I live has one government with limited powers which it voted for and one UK wide government which it rejected massively. Despite there only being 1 our of 59 MPs a Tory, and 56 out of 59 being SNP we end up with a government that my nation did not vote for.
No...
But you did vote to take that risk.
It's no wonder voter turnout keeps falling - people don't believe there's much point.
When feelings like these reach a certain point, they can be explosive when mixed with economic hardships.
All we need is the right set of circumstances. So yeah, we might not have an armed revolution.....but in the long term I can see the potential for serious political upheaval.
The Glorious Revolution?
What. When the existing King was replaced by his Daughter & Son-in-Law?
Where has all this rubbish about people are idiots, humans are selfish come from ? just who/what are we being compared with ? do the student gwants know of some other beings whose virtues are superior to ours ?
Where has all this rubbish about people are idiots, humans are selfish come from ? just who/what are we being compared with ? do the student gwants know of some other beings whose virtues are superior to ours ?
You think you are better than a chimpanzee? 😆
But it mostly stems from behavioural psychology studies.
http://www.globalrichlist.net/
If you've got more than 27k coming in you're in the top 1% of the planet. Revolt about what, that I live in a safe, wealthy, powerful nation and can expect a long, trouble free and happy life?
Yeah, sign me up..
If you've got more than 27k coming in you're in the top 1% of the planet.
65% of people in the UK earn less than that.
If you protest you get riot police trying to baton you like a caged wild animal.
You use firebomb or weapon they gun you down like ZMs ...
But if you use poo ... everyone disperse! Including the police not to mention that their family will not allowe them back into their own house for being stinking to high heaven.
I doubt they will machine gun you down because of you are throwing poo at them, besides everyone gets a good laugh out off it.
You want to fight ZM bureaucrats seriously then you are going to face the system. If you use poo ... there is no way the system can react as it is a big joke on everyone.
Imagine the news headline "Poo assault!" or "It is full of Shite!" or "Please reduce red meat consumption coz your poo stink to high heaven". It will create the biggest laughter of all ...
Try it. I can assure you that even the media will not know how to handle it apart from calling poo throwers smelly bar stewards.
People threw stink bomb and did you see the reaction? Everyone dispersed! Including the police!
😆
65% of people in the UK earn less than that.
Yeah, top 2% is intolerable.
How well do revolutions actually work?
The French revoltion led to a chaotic time, got rid of a monarch, and series of so called republics where you actually had Napoleon the [i]third[/i]... and they got invaded bythe Germans three times. You could argue that it is only since the mid 1960s that they actually managed to get effective democracy right, if slightly corrupt...
The Russian Revolution - well - that went well for the 20 million Stalin got to...
The Cultural revolution in China...
The American revolution - well, still a bit early to say... 😉 but there is an irony in a [i]republican[/i] party considering Bush the third as King.... oops... President
I am playing devils advocate here... but really?
Stoatsbrother - Member
How well do revolutions actually work?
As well as human nature will allow.
Owen and Polly will be the next Cromwell, being in the top 1% of the UK (or Tuscany depending on the time of year) whilst railing against the establishment (as if being a paid talking head on the BBC doesn't qualify you for that) fits the historical analogy well
65% of people in the UK earn less than that.
Actually income inequality is a prerequisite and integral component of the trigger for revolution.
Two days before the last General Election Alex Proud in the Daily Telegraph even asked the question [i]"Why aren't the middle classes staging a revolution?"[/i]
How well do revolutions actually work?The French revoltion led to a chaotic time, got rid of a monarch, and series of so called republics where you actually had Napoleon the third... and they got invaded bythe Germans three times. You could argue that it is only since the mid 1960s that they actually managed to get effective democracy right, if slightly corrupt...
The Russian Revolution - well - that went well for the 20 million Stalin got to...
The Cultural revolution in China...
The American revolution - well, still a bit early to say... but there is an irony in a republican party considering Bush the third as King.... oops... President
I am playing devils advocate here... but really?
This one worked pretty well...
http://www.prague.net/blog/article/36/velvet-revolution
That would be a very British kind of revolution - but really that was pushing on an already opening door...
I am playing devils advocate here... but really?
What, you looking for a safe option?
Yeah, top 2% is intolerable.
Comparing a developed economy with the third world for instance? Sounds tory. Dismantle the rights and protections that the majority have while telling us to be grateful for what we got left when compared to others.
That's the current problem - the Westminster system is not representative, so the votes of most people don't matter - it's possible to win complete control with only 20-30% of the vote. Then add in the second-largest unelected chamber in the World, and political parties which don't have any principles other than "say whatever it takes to get elected".
First past the post has got to go.
El-bent
I'd agree with your last point. Trouble is with employment rates looking generally higher, wages actually climbing, more full time work, and a large cohort of pensioners who will vote, you may not get the answer you want.
And I think we should learn from history. Most social and other political advances happen slowly, incrementally. Even Obama and Blair managed to deliver some good stuff. So yes - I'd like a safer option than most revolutions.
Say for example the Royal Family were revealed as being involved in sadistic paedophilia, and it turned out Jimmy Savile was their procurer...
What kind of reaction would that evoke?
What kind of reaction would that evoke?
Dunno. How many armies does the Queen have ?
The response here to the suggestion of how 'repressed' we are is exactly the reason there will never be a revolution, half of you don't even recognise repression even when it's happening to you.
Here is a quick reminder.
Political repression, the oppression or persecution of an individual or group for political reasons. Psychological repression, the psychological act of excluding desires and impulses from one's consciousness.
So, to those of us who could be described as anarchic, i.e. not wishing to be governed, or at the very least manipulated by the state or corporate greed, there has never been a worse time.
Then the simple question of freedom of thought and expression, or movement, all fine until you happen to act in a manner with which the state or new politically correct pitchfork brigade might disagree with.
Even in medieval times, a free man was exactly that, free to travel anywhere in the world, free to defend himself, provided he didn't nick the Kinds deer, pretty much able to come and go as he pleased.
No surveillance from cctv, no electronic documentation from birth to death with his every electronic footprint traced and measured, free to think, say what he pleases, offend whoever he pleases along the way.
Free from the weapons of capitalism, and 'the markets', the manipuated media, the political system corrupted by capital.
Nope, you're all pretty damned repressed.
Unless of course you're Rich beyond imagination.
The great repressed of stw should perhaps go travelling somewhere less tolerant that the UK.
Then the simple question of freedom of thought and expression, or movement, all fine until you happen to act in a manner with which the state or new politically correct pitchfork brigade might disagree with.
Then what happens ? Do tell.
The great repressed of stw should perhaps go travelling somewhere less tolerant that the UK.
Like Saudi Arabia?
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Like Saudi Arabia?
I suspect mikewsmith had somewhere like that in mind.
A free man of the middle ages were the rich of their day. Most people then were stuck within the feudal system. I doubt people then were able to say what they liked or offend whom they pleased, particulary tje church.
Everyone earning more than £100k should leave the country, that woukd solve income inequality and the rest woukd be really happy, or perhaps we just abolish all jobs over £100k. Chap on TV last night quoted how many council clerks made £150k it was quite a few 100.
Tories are about as popular now as they where when they won the election.
I think there'd be a revolution if we signed up to the Shengen agreement. Saw abkut 100 potential illegal immigrants hanging around the eurotunnel at Calais this evening. There could be one of we get more of this "we didnt get the government we voted for nonsense" - the Scots got exactly what they voted for in September
Got to go, past my bedtime plus Chamonix and Verbier and other Alpine loveliness beckon 8)
It's the last thing frightened pensioners, land/property/BTL owners, business owners, the majority of the middle, upper and political classes want, can't see them coming round to the idea anytime soon either.
Everyone earning more than £100k should leave the country,
I thought they are had and they were all now riding there Enduro bikes around the Alps?
Rising inequality, rule by old Etonians and their chums, mass immigration to keep down wages (a merchant banker said to me last week how it was expected that another million would be in London over the next 10 years, largely prepared to work for the minimum wage and very good for business), destruction of the welfare state, unaffordable housing, zero hours contracts, university fees. Any member of the ruling class reading this thread would be delighted and amused by how cowed and conservative people are, lickspittles busily tugging their forelocks and coming out in defense of queen and country and justifying their own relative poverty. Austerity is about reducing real incomes to a level approximating to that of the middle class in China but feel free to let the Mail etc persuade you otherwise while it is happening.