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The best way to effect change is by voting. if none of the parties represents what you want, form your own party and try and convince as many people as possible to vote for you. If enough people like you get in, you can effect really change.
I think the EU might have something to say about "real change".
If you want real change, revolutionary change, as the OP suggests and which is apparently the subject matter of this thread, then you will have to go further than changing parliamentary representation.
Otherwise just be satisfied with the status quo beyond not much more than a bit of tinkering.
110/148mm spacing seems enough for some people.
willard - Member
I have a strong suspicion that throwing poo counts as assault, so throwing it at the police or a politician ay not be a good idea.
Ya, poo throwing becomes an assault. You do know that if you touch them (i.e. other people) it becomes an assault too? So why not make the best out of it by using poo? When you are charged at the police station everyone gets a big laugh at being poo thrown.
Imagine thousand of people throwing poo then it gets into big news then it becomes the norm of protest and no longer a "proper" assault. It then becomes the laughing stock of the world and the politicians would be taken the mickey out of them, when they gather they would greet each other with "How's your poo nowadays? Get any? You need to get them to change their diet you know.".
The moral of the story if you want to be a ZM then you should be able to handle poo ... 😆
edit:[b] oh ya if you want your poo to stink to high heaven then eat plenty of red meat ...[/b]
we dont need a revolution we need young people to vote, and baby boomers to die off.
The papers all seem to be terrified for a lefty Labour party leader, so maybe that will do it.
The papers all seem to be terrified for a lefty Labour party leader
They claim not to be.
There won't be a revolution because most of us love it here. I'm very interested in the practical, deliverable suggestions the OP has for the country post revolution or is this just a general purpose whine?
We need winter because it says here
There won't be a revolution because most of us love it here.
I think the suggestion here is a political revolution rather than a cultural revolution. There is some evidence of widespread public dissatisfaction with politics and politicians. Although none to suggest that it has reach the point of revolutionary fervour.
Like the recent fairly convincing victory for the Tories you mean? A nation gets the government it votes for. There were options and that was the result, shitty options I'll grant you.
Like the recent fairly convincing victory for the Tories you mean? A nation gets the government it votes for. There were options and that was the result, shitty options I'll grant you.
Shitty options indeed 🙁
Like the recent fairly convincing victory for the Tories you mean?
I think it's stretching it a bit to call it a "fairly convincing victory". I don't think there's ever been a ruling party in government in the UK that has won so little support from the electorate as this present government did.
There have been rare examples of parties winning slightly less percentage of the vote but on a much bigger turnout.
The Tories actually got only 25% of the total possible electoral vote in May, correct me if I'm wrong but no other party imo has ever won a general election with so few votes.
And don't forget they only have a working majority of 12.
So not a convincing victory for the Tories imo.
Humans are very selfish and will only work together if they can see its better for them individually or their family. We are not ants.
The idea of working for the common good is a selfish act as its seen by those that do it (a lot of us) as better for them and their family, which is a selfish attitude. The problem we have if we want a revolution is persuading enough people that it is better for them in the medium to long term.
Humans are very selfish and will only work together if they can see its better for them individually or their family. We are not ants.
Humans really aren't that selfish. We form families and tribes, and will quite easily sacrifice ourselves for others.
Surprised no-one's quoted Trotsky: 3 square meals, absence of.
Mogrim +1
The problem we have if we want a revolution is persuading enough people that it is better for them in the medium to long term.
This is totally totalitarian man 😆
Asking a bunch of mainly middle class, middle aged men who can afford an expensive hobby about revolution maybe asking the wrong crowd?
What would labours % been? In fact, add up labour, the lib dems and the SNP, what % would they have got?
Of those that cared sufficiently to vote the Tories got 37 odd %. uKIP got 12%, so nearly half between them.
To say that the left has been hard done by and is somehow the most popular view in the UK just isn't true. People are lamenting that blair and co were too right wing, but they actually won elections.
Labour can shift to the left, and probably should, we need a choice but don't blame them if the spend years in opposition as a result (and of course, they won't stand a chance if they don't get the scottish vote back).
The Tories actually got only 25% of the total possible electoral vote in May, correct me if I'm wrong but no other party imo has ever won a general election with so few votes.
Correct me if I'm wrong but Labour won the 2005 election according to wikipaedia with 35.2% of a 61.4% turnout. My maths makes that 21.6% of the total possible electoral vote. Makes the current govt look for more legit despite the smaller majority. Time we had that boundary review I think.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_general_election,_2005
and STV or some other form of PR. No party has had real mandate for many many years
House prices halving and old people having their benefits cut would probably do it.
The reason why their has yet to be a revolution is that the legal avenues for voicing political opinion have yet to be exhausted, people still think they can make a difference by voting. Once people feel that their lives are no longer under their own control and they have no way of venting those feelings and changing the direction of their lives legally, they resort to reactionary behaviour. You also have to believe that your life could be better but that there are external constraints stopping it from being better - the issue with the British is that we have stopped believing that our lives could be better - we are a country stuck in post-colonial negativism - we believe things are only going to get worse.
Actually humans aren't selfish. It's one of the principle reasons why humans have been successful. You would struggle to find another species of mammals as selfless as humans.
Selflessness is an evolutionary form of selfishness. As you said it yourself, we are successful because we cooperate - don't let that deceive you into thinking that humans won't **** over their fellow man if doing so benefits them more than cooperation.
We form families and tribes...
Why do 'we' do that?
tou're confusing social change with military conflict. I suppose another thing we need for revolution is for people like you to keep right out of it. Just watch how the grown-ups do it.
I'm with Chewkw, as Che put it.....what's a revolution without guns? Almost all true revolutions involve violent conflict, peaceful revolution is an exception to the norm. The social and institutional constructs that limit the political avenues of the masses almost always necessitate armed conflict, as those holding power are almost always violently opposed to threats to their power. Otherwise the elites would give the masses avenues of political outlet. The greatest trick played by the western elite, has been to understand this concept.
We form tribes because its better for us individually and our family (stability, food supply, security), its actually a selfish act of survival. We can appear to being selfless but it's done for reasons other than the collective. Like those that are truly selfish and would step on anyone to get things their way, we make a cost benefit analysis on what's best for us and those we consider family. Fortunately for a good portion of people many decide that not shitting on everyone around them is not best for themselves.
Want a revolution in the UK? Get as many people as possible to see that things would be better if your ideas would be better for them. Simple really.
Like the recent fairly convincing victory for the Tories you mean? A nation gets the government it votes for.
The nation in which I live has one government with limited powers which it voted for and one UK wide government which it rejected massively. Despite there only being 1 our of 59 MPs a Tory, and 56 out of 59 being SNP we end up with a government that my nation did not vote for.
If this country is a shitehole, why are half of Africa, the Middle East and the Asian subcontinent desperate to get in here?
People who say stupid things like that against the country that feeds, shelters and cures them get right up my nose. They need to go and spend a few weeks in a proper shithole like Lagos or Cairo or Kinshasa to understand just how damned lucky they are to live here. It has its faults but it's one of the best countries in the world in the balance it offers.
Want a revolution in the UK? Get as many people as possible to see that things would be better if your ideas would be better for them. Simple really.
Not simple, you don't convince people with ideas and you don't convince them over night. You manipulate their feelings over decades and slowly bring to boil emotional issues. People do not think rationally, you have to make them FEEL like they have no other choice than to riot.
People who say stupid things like that against the country that feeds, shelters and cures them get right up my nose.
I feed, shelter and cure myself. What is your point exactly?
If this country is a shitehole, why are half of Africa, the Middle East and the Asian subcontinent desperate to get in here?
It's a worse shithold over there? Just because it could be worse doesn't mean the UK couldn't be a lot better than it is now.
Arguably the UK is less of a hole because we do complain, whinge and whine about things. The Philippines is a dump because the people are ridiculously happy, believe in god a bit too much and just let their politicians get on with being corrupt jerks.
Saying that you have no right to complain smacks of sneering tory elitism.
I feed, shelter and cure myself. What is your point exactly?
What? Grow all your own food, built your own house, and don't use the NHS. Respect!
Any revolution in Britain won't come from within.
Mark my words, & I'm not Enoch Powell.
What? Grow all your own food, built your own house, and don't use the NHS. Respect!
That's a nonsense interpretation.
We have one of the most benign, wealthy, healthy and liberal countries in the world and you reach for the "R" word? You've got to be shitting me!?
Revolution is to democracy what government troops killing students is to expense-fiddling MPs.
Use the right tools for the job and know when they're to be used. Bitch and whine if you must, but revolution? There's probably the thick end of 6bn other people out there thinking you're a lucky lucky bastard.
That's a nonsense interpretation.
Why? If you are not completely self sufficient you are using the transport systems, health care, food supply chain, etc which depend on the contributions made by other members of society.
Our advanced society and standard of living is only possibly by cooperation.
You've all missed the obvious potential cause for revolution: a huge increase in tax on tea.
Our advanced society and standard of living is only possibly by cooperation.
Which the Tories are trying to rip apart. There's no such thing as society, remember.
We have one of the most benign, wealthy, healthy and liberal countries in the world
Exactly. My grandparents were born in one room houses with no indoor plumbing or electricity. Anyone born in the UK or another first world democracy in the last 70 years in luckier than anyone else in history and the majority of people alive just now.
No such thing as society. Full quote.
"They are casting their problems at society. And, you know, there's no such thing as society. There are individual men and women and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look after themselves first. It is our duty to look after ourselves and then, also, to look after our neighbours."
I agree with it. Society works from the bottom up not top down.
Wanmankylung, to answer your original question bacause most people don't share your views as seen in the election results and a lot of posts on this thread. Surprisingly (for you maybe) a lot of people see the ongoing collapse of the left as progress, doesn't mean people are happy with the Tories but they're a better option than Labour or the SNP protest option.
As for your ascertion your nation didn't elect it's government, you're not a sovereign nation, Scotland had it's chance and didn't take it, the Scots chose to remain part of the UK. Therefore your vote counts as much and as little as anyone else's. In the nation you are a part of the Tories got into power with a majority.
So bottom line is not everyone shares your world view.
We have one of the most benign, wealthy, healthy and liberal countries in the world
You forgot unequal: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/oct/15/wealth-inequality-uk-ticking-timebomb-credit-suisse-crash
So bottom line is not everyone shares your world view.
Therefore confirming my belief that people are idiots.
Therefore confirming my belief that people are idiots.
It seems they think the same about you!