[Closed] What small log burner

The flue, hearth, registry plate, fitting, etc will cost the same regardless of what stove you go for.
Up to a point the more expensive the stove the more controllable it will be and stuff will probably fit together better. Some stoves just have a bigger following and can therefore command a higher price.

As the saying goes, 'buy cheap, buy twice'

Do you 'really' need a stove (and the associated expense) to heat a 9' x 15' room?

Loads of naysayers on here mate... i put a Contura i4 Modern (4kw) stove into a similar space. Did it myself and then got it signed off by building control; there are some good deals on display models etc on the bay.

I have [url= http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rosa-5kw-Wood-Burning-Stove-Multifuel-Log-Burner-Cast-Iron-Traditional-Stove-/331122653283 ]two sub 300 quid stoves[/url] that are just as good as the 3K one I have.

The cost of our stove was about 1/4 of the price of the whole thing. The Victorian cast fireplace has been concreted in place by a previous builder (with no lintel) and had to be removed with a demolition hammer, then the fireplace re-build with a lintel, before they could even start installation....

On our second Westfire Series 1. Had one fitted in the old house and we preferred it to the Morso O4 in the other room. So much so we didn't even shop around, just got another Westfire when we moved.

Westfire is £900+ 🙁

Loads of naysayers on here mate...

My current install is running at around £2k, the stove was £619 so its the rest of it that racks up the pennies.

I`m planning on going for the following this or next week. Works out at approx £740 for stove liner fitting kit etc
[url= http://www.stovefitterswarehouse.co.uk/collections/saltfire-wood-multifuel-stoves/products/copy-of-saltfire-st1-wood-only-se-with-100-free-chimney-liner ]Saltfire st 1[/url]
Just need to buy it and then get installed for Xmas.

stove

I'm hoping cheap

Ha!

Anyway. If you are able to reuse the existing fireplace, I'd fit an insert. If you're making a big recess of the fireplace and doing a load of plaster/paint/tidyup, get a freestanding. As folk have pointed out, the cheap ones do most of the stuff the pricier ones do... but perhaps not quite as well... The airwash over the glass, the secondary air preheating, etc.

We have a Dean Forge Clearburn, its very good, but not cheap.

Do you 'really' need a stove (and the associated expense) to heat a 9' x 15' room?

"Darling, wouldn't it be lovely if we could get a fire going for Christmas?"

We have an Aga Little Wenlock. Nice compact burner.
http://www.agastoves.co.uk/aga-stoves/traditional-stoves/wenlock-family/little-wenlock-classic-smoke-exempt

Westfire owner here too, got a uniq35 as an ex display model off eBay for a lot below rrp, was still £700 tho. mine is 4.3kw and for a small fireplace.

I've got a aarrow ecoburn in my office. Been great.

These are all within 25miles of your work, ex display or owner refurb. They are brands I recognise as being good.

[url= http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Stovax-Stockton-3-Wood-burner-multi-fuel-stove-/162279296391?hash=item25c8998d87:g:CTkAAOSwtnpXl7Uy ]Stovax Stockton 3[/url]

[url= http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/esse-1-5kw-wood-burning-stove-ex-display-unused-/192017513791?hash=item2cb522bd3f:g:Cz8AAOSw4GVYGyz~ ]Esse 1[/url]

[url= http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hunter-hawk-3-multifuel-stove-Unused-Ex-Display-/192017801366?hash=item2cb5272096:g:wT0AAOSwImRYG4eG ]Hunter Hawk 3[/url]

We have a Stovax Stockton 5. Very happy with it, although with just the one it's hard to compare it to anything else......

Thanks everyone. We currently have a gas fire that is broken and to get it replaced was going to costs £1100 all in so not that much more for a stove to be fitted, maybe £2000 if we can get a stove for around £500. The wife really wants a stove, she is not the one who is cutting up the wood each day!!. However we are just about to have a tree felled in the garden and the tree surgeon reckons we will have 3 tons of Ash, which is perfect for burning. Seems a shame not to use a free resource and of course keeps the wife happy. A month ago she gave me the green light to buy a Santa Cruz 5010 so I can't complain. Maybe me chopping some wood is fair compensation!!

Oh and do people have a view on insert log burners? That would be much quicker and cheaper to install as we wouldn't have to open up the chimney.

we are just about to have a tree felled in the garden and the tree surgeon reckons we will have 3 tons of Ash,

Sounds great... for next year.

Oh and do people have a view on insert log burners?

If you are able to reuse the existing fireplace, I'd fit an insert.

Same basic end result but less decorating. My parents have a jetmaster insert. It works very nicely.

BTW.

Don't get a logburner. Get a multifuel.

I've never regretted the ability to chuck a load of nuggets on without having to chop/stack/wait-a-year/swear-at-"dry"-wood-what-turned-out-to-be-damp/reload-every-five-minutes.

When I say log burner I do mean MultiFuel, totally agree coal has its place.

According to the tree surgeon, Ash is good to burn straight away!!

We are big fans of our Morso Squirrel multifuel stove.
Mind you the £1100 quoted for the flue liner, associated gubbins & fitting was a bit eye watering....

Tick

Aarrow Becton Bunny here. Crap name and basic but has been great. Helped by the fact I got it second hand for £35 unused.

Oh and do people have a view on insert log burners?

This is not necessarily a bad thing as you are then heating up the structure of the house which acts like a storage heater so the room stays warm for longer.

Ash can be burnt green, but it'll burn better dry. It gives up its moisture quite easily, so won't take long to dry, especially if it's cut and split and stored somewhere airy with a roof.

Small stove flat out is better than a big stove on tickover.
Choice is huge, like bikes, you pay more for design, finish, features and some brands never seem as good value whilst others are bargains.

Morso Squirrel gets my vote and never burn green wood, even ash, it'll do your chimney no good and you'll lose half the heat evaporating off the water.

How often should i have the flue swept, and is it expensive?
(will be a stove owner tomorrow)

How often should i have the flue swept, and is it expensive?

We use our fire every day for maybe 5 months of the year. Annual sweep produces very little soot, so once a year seems fine.

Dry wood of any species here, flat out burning most of the time, always finish on full burn.
Sweep says we can leave it at least a couple of years before it's worth him coming.

"always finish on a full burn" means what, exactly? Sorry, not being rude but all this is new to me & I want to start right.

Volvo 240?

always finish on a full burn

Ensure the fire burns right out so there's no tar left in the flue.

*I can't believe I just commented on a wood-burner thread, I think I need to be banned from STW*

muddydwarf, you might find it helpful to get a flue thermometer, they are only 3 or 4 quid on ebay, and help you to burn hot enough but not too hot. It's basically bad to stifle the stove, as lack of air creates smoke and smoke is lost energy and potentially creosote. The smoke is unburnt Volatile Organic Compounds (VOCs) such as resin from the wood, if it condenses it forms creosote, the tar or sooty like substance. Creosote is bad as it builds up in the flue, blocking it if really bad and since its flamable it can cause a chimney fire if you later burn hot and ignite it...very bad, could spread to the house.

So don't stifle the stove too much and it is good to burn a bit hotter regularly, finish of burn is a good time, to drive out any condensate from the flue so it doesn't build up.

Sweeping yourself isn't too hard but can be messy if you aren't careful. If yu tape up some plastic sheeting and use a dust sheet in front of the stove there should be little mess though. If your flue is fairly straight then old fashioned 'drain rods' and a brush are bout £40. If you've tight bends a rotary power sweep system with more flexible rods starts from £40 and goes up from there
this sort of thing

If you burn good dry wood, and burn hot enough, your flue can stay clean enough to go a few years between sweeps. But if the draw is bad, or the flue exceptionally long, or cold because its on an exposed wall, or..or....or....then you'll get more creosote. I'd say get it swept after first winter, and see how much comes out, ten decide if annual is needed.

Oh and as for costs, I detailed full costs on a thread a few weeks ago. IIRC the materials for installing, plus £216 for building control, came to £600-£700. Liner is the costly bit but also hanging cowl, adapter to stove pipe, stove pipe, register plate and odds and sods add up.

I also detailed the costs for tools to process your wood if you do it yourself and its similar, about £500-£600 (chainsaw, all PPE, splitting axe, maul, wedges, sledge hammer, hatchet)

However we are just about to have a tree felled in the garden and the tree surgeon reckons we will have 3 tons of Ash, which is perfect for burning.

Maybe in 2 to 3 years time....

Stoves look nice, but what do you want it to do? Heat the one room or heat the house? If its the one room, you will need a very small KW one. If its the whole house be prepared to boil in the room where the stove is.

Also, if you get a stove small enough to heat the room without boiling you, then you will have to chop every single log yourself.

Most bought cut logs fit just in a 5KW stove.

most log suppliers will do 10" long logs, which will fit all stoves from about 4.5kw up*. Lots of log suppliers will cut and supply shorter if you need, but may charge a bit extra as you'd be special.

My stovax stockton 5 takes 13" logs and is 5Kw*. My parents have a franco belge belfort, 4.5Kw stove, and it takes 10", just.

You could burn ok in any moderate sized 5Kw* stove and not fry in a 3mx5m room...or you could run it hard and sweat your knackers off. My lounge is 4.5m x 4.5 m and my stockton 5 is great at heating it. If i chose to open the doors to study and dinning room I can run it harder and heat the 3 rooms fairly well, still comfy in the lounge but probably no need for a sweater. , This is where a decent stove wins over the rubbish ones from china and elsewhere, as they don't have the control (the really cheap ones will also warp/crack making them race away even more as air leaks in and making the warping worse)

* Note the KW rating on a stove is nominal and largely made up. Its advantageous to advertise a stove as 5Kw as above this requires a permanent air vent to the room with the stove and lots of people don't want drafty air vents. The stove manufacturer sets the size of wood, the amount of wood and various other/virtually all variables for the test, e test that shows the stove can be run at the stated nominal output, on average over a burn, and achieve the stated efficiency.

Oh and Ash, no it doesn't burn green. You really really need lower than 25% moisture content in the wood to burn it, and ideally you really want lower than 20% to burn nicely without wasting energy boiling off water and risking a creosote filled flue. Most woods are about 40% ish when growing (less in winter, more in summer when leafed up) Ash however is about 30% when growing so its close to burnable...it can be made to burn green IF you have some dry stuff to mix with it. That's a waste though and will creosote the flue. CUt it to length (bucking), split it to 4" splits, stack it somewhere, ideally sunny and windy, on pallets so its off the ground, and cover it on the top but let the air to the sides. By next winter it will be <25%, by the following it will be <20%. If your splits are big or your pile not in ideal conditions it may take a 3rd summer. Hardwoods relinquish the water slowly. They burn great when finally dry though.

A pile i made earlier...
[img] [/img]

Not an ideal pile, but its softwood and will dry faster than hardwood. Its next winter's pile.

Well, my stove has arrived. Hunter Herald 5 slimline - weighty wee nuggets aren't they?
Seems well made to the casual inspection although I won't know until its fitted and working of course. Firebox area seems decent enough, and has a good sized top plate for heating mulled wine 🙂

Does anyone know where I might get something like this indoor storage?:
[img] [/img]
[img] [/img]

🙂 sounds good.

Heavy? oh yeah. Took me 15 or more minutes to move mine, a few paces at a time, about 30 yards from the garage where it was stored to the lounge where it was fitted. I was pooped after! Your 'standard' sized 5Kw stove of a decent quality will be around 80 kilos. If its lighter I'd be dubious on its quality and durability.

Right, I'm off to swing the X27 and work on 20118/19s pile for 30 minutes.

This model is 93kg - was fun trying to get it off the pallet & into the house!

😀

I bought an old stove on ebay the other day, a good quality one but in need of refurbishing. Only paid £68. lifting it into the car boot when i collected it was an exercise.

Spitting wood is good exercise too. Its well below zero and the ground is hard frozen but I was soon down to a t-shirt and sweating. I'd read wood can often split very easily when frozen, hence why I went out. Don't believe everything you read. Although to be fair, the wood was not frozen, just a thick layer of frost. Still a lot of water coming to the surface on several axe strikes.

I'm not that far along (yet) will probably be having wood delivered.
MsD doesn't want me to have a chainsaw & the police took one of my axes away..

Fuel - what are the advantages/disadvantages of softwoods Vs hardwoods?
Also, naturally seasoned Vs kiln-dried logs.
Seems a fair discrepancy in price.

Basically all wood of any type has the same energy per kilo. However soft woods are less dense, so less energy dense. Seasoned hardwood will have a specific density around 0.75, soft wood about 0.5. So for the same energy output you need to process, store and burn half as much again of soft wood. So more splitting, more large piles and more refueling the stove. On the plus side it dries quicker, about a year instead of 3, it lights quicker and it burns hotter. Soft is good for getting the stove lit and quickly up to temp, hard good for a nice steady burn.

Kiln dried pricing is odd as the money isn't made in selling it.... It's almost a waste product. The money is made in government green grants, called rhi. Run a kiln and get paid, a princly sum even. As for burning it, well it depends on the moisture content. It might be 'too dry'. Below 10% and it'll go 'Woof!'. A controlled burn will be hard. However chances are it'll be about 18? when you burn it, unless you store it inside. If stored outside it will absorb moisture and equalise with surrounding air, and just like air seasoned logs, gets to 15-19? in the UK, depending on summer vs winter and south vs colder north.

Oh and it varies a great deal on numerous things, but soft usually cuts and splits a bit easier.

I just realised...a dwarf with no axe? Need to remedy that.

Finishing on a full burn, is not leaving it to smoulder. Vents opened up, intense burn to leave only fine ash.

Soft/hard mix of firewood is best for the reasons nn mentions. Kiln dried isn't worth the premium, unless you plan to keep it in your airing cupboard, it will just pull the moisture in again, osmosis, equilibrium and science and stuff innit.

We mostly run the firewood processor at 250-300mm as that fits the majority of stoves and we know which customers have stoves that will take the bigger bits that slip through, stoves that require small logs are a pain, not enough sheds to dedicate one to the few people that have midget stoves.

Some species split easier green, others when seasoned, some hardwoods are no good after 18 months (horse chestnut), some softwoods are hard to cut and split once like Sitka spruce once dry. Many variables, a good source is most important for decent dry stuff, not last weeks hedge cuttings.

We now have a small living room and put a small log burner in two years ago. We did stacks of research and ended up with a Charnwood C-Four, it's been a lovely thing that everyone likes the look of and works extremely well. The others I was hugely impressed by, and anyone around here with one says the best by far and the Woodwarms, extremely well made, the Firefox is there small one.
[IMG] [/IMG]
[IMG] [/IMG]

Every tree is different though to split, depends how fast it grew, was it alone battling the winds or sheltered? Did it grow tall and straight seeking the light or short and branched to soak it up? Knots and twisted grain are evil no matter what the species. I've had 2 foot diameter horse chestnut that was an absolute dodle to split..... I've currently got a load of Ash that is absolutely wretched..... I'm hoping it will get easier as it dries as it's currently f'ing awful to work on!

One more thing muddy, a range of split size (diameter) is handy. Several small bits gives intense burn, one large bit gives a slow and low burn.

All of the above is why we don't bother with wood anymore. Far too much faff if you don't have masses of spare time for hobby burning, and the space to store several years worth of wood.

Our lounge stove runs on cheap manufactured nuggets, or anthracite cobbles. The big boy in the kitchen that drives the radiators runs on anthracite beans. Morning routine is riddle, reload, forget. Evening routine is riddle, reload, take ash out, forget. The only thing we use wood for is getting coal burning.

We're getting one of these fitted on Monday - we chose it as it has a huge window.

[img] [/img]

Ok, can someone explain to me what a recouping baffle does in a wood burner?

Lionheart

Out of interest how wide and deep is your chimney breast and what size hole have you got for that Charnwood?

Ok, can someone explain to me what a recouping baffle does in a wood burner?

Never heard of one, but apparently....

The Hunter Herald 8 Recouping steel baffle is a triangular baffle that is used to protect the top of the firebox to ensure it is insulated and protected from the continuous heat produced by the stove.

All stoves have a baffle. It's a roughly L-shape piece of metal plate, probably 5 or 6mm thick, and it stands upside down so it covers some of the back and much of the top of the firebox. It provides tortuousity (might never just made that word up) so flames and sparks shouldn't get up the flue, and protects the top plate from excess heat. Never heard of a 'recoupling' one though.

If you run the stove too hot ( more likely on coal than wood) then a warped baffle is possible, but replacing these is easy and cheap compared to a top plate. For example, I'm refurbishing a Franco Belge Belfort, it needed a baffle, it cost me about £25 to get a new one.

Ah, i've been playing with it (it came sat in the bottom of the stove with no explanation as to purpose) and i 'think' i've found out how it fits into the stove. The instructions give no clue!

Does the stove top still get hot enough to 'cook' on? MsD has this mental image of doing mulled wine, and roasting chestnuts on it.

Ah, i've been playing with it (it came sat in the bottom of the stove with no explanation as to purpose) and i 'think' i've found out how it fits into the stove. The instructions give no clue!

Yes stove top will get very hot. You'll find it will cook and boil stuff. Note stove paint is not that hard and easily scratches with cook pots, if that might bother you perhaps get a trivet, it will still boil stuff on a trivet.

Like that stove with big glass. It won't stay they way though..... One burn and can we see a photo? The bottom, by the log guard, will be black. The rest will stay clean with decent logs though I reckon.

Yes, trivets have been mentioned! Getting impatient to have the job done now, another week before its finished.
Found a local wood supplier so all set really.

Another Morso Squirrel owner here ....

@ muddy: If you haven't got one yet, get a stove thermometer. If you don't have one I can guarantee you'll run the stove too cool and mess up your flue.

@johndoh: Nice looking stove. Is it steel or cast iron? If it's steel, is the door also steel?
We have a pair of Clearview stoves and although the bodies are welded steel (my preference) the doors are cast iron. I'm guessing this is because a cast door will not flex as much.
It will be interesting to see how well your stove seals 10 years down the line (if you still have it!!).

Too cool? In THIS house? You obviously haven't met MsD..
She is cold on Mediterranean holidays!

Rope seals around the doors, what sort of lifespan should I expect? All this is new to me.

P.S. The exposed brick of the 'damp' wall is drying out nicely, colour changing every day.

Seal should last two or three years at least, the glue with probably go first.
Easy fix, I did one of ours the other day - took 5 mins max.
Buy rope and glue off ebay and don't get the cheap stuff.

Another Morso Squirrel owner here too and X27 axe.

My parent's stove must be almost 20 years old, still on original rope seals in good nick. I'm not sure what wears them tbh. Test seal by checking it grips a piece of paper

Seals don't wear really, but they do compress over time and eventually will allow too much air in - even with an adjustable door.

Like I said though, it's probably the glue that will go first so you replace the lot.

Get a Stove fan. They spread the heat around the room.

http://iqdesign.ie/smartfan.html

Get a Stove fan. They spread the heat around the room.

Finally got ours in last night - but can't light it until tonight (Parkway Aspect 4).

*The rest of the room/fire surround etc is work in progress but we wanted the stove in for Christmas 🙂

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We have a Nordpeis Orion. Can boil a kettle on it which is a bonus.

[url= http://www.nordpeis.co.uk/wood-burning-stoves/orion/ ]Nordpeis[/url]

Very nice stove johndoh, I prefer the simple square ones.

This is mine so far, way things are going, it probably won't be finished until Feb
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Very nice stove johndoh, I prefer the simple square ones.