I've been promising myself new kitchen knives for years and I've finally given in. I'd like to buy knives that will really last a long time and to look after carefully. I've done some research and initially I heard Global knives were the top brand but it seems that the Japanese knives are harder to sharpen and more likely to be chipped accidentally due to their brittle steel. It seems a good European style knife set would be better for me but I'm not sure? At the moment I'm keen on the Wusthof Classic Ikon Santoku (6 piece) set.
Does anyone have experience of Wusthof knives or any different opinion?
Knife threads are even more STW than coffee threads. Expect to be told to spend hundreds on something really obscure. Our knives are just normal knives, but they still chop veg just the same 🙂
I love my Global knives, but that may be as a worked in kitchens when I was young and a particular chef used them and so there may be some nostalgia in there.
The standard STW response is Wusthof or Victorinox, both will last of well if looked after.
And don’t forget to add a huge cleaver from the local Chinese supermarket. They are really versatile, I use mine a lot. Plus they make you look cool!
A lot of pro chefs use Victorinox Fibrox. They’re not exiting to look at, but are good value and hold a good edge/are easy to keep very sharp.
My Lion brand sabatiers have been going strong for 40 years. I keep promising them a professional re-sharpening.
Have a good read of this book. before you buy. There is a lot of marketing bollocks about which type of steel or style of knife is best. The book is a good guide through all that BS as well as explaining how to use and look after them. A bit too gratingly 'merican in places would be my only minor criticism.
I have Wusthof Classic and love them.
Some Japanese knives are harder to look after than others but I've not had any issues. I prefer the style of Japanese knives/handles and they tend to be a bit lighter/thinner than their European equivalents. Saying that my mum has Wusthof knives we got her as a present and they are very good also
My favourites out of the ones I own are a MAC Nakiri and a Miyabi Shotoh, unsurprisingly there are people on here way more nerdy than me though who will no doubt be chipping in soon.
The scalloped edges on that Wusthof Santoku seem like a good idea but I've not used it.
I'm confused about sharpening angles. Wusthof say the knives are 14 degree angle, but their own sharpener has a 17 degree angle...
Sadly, I was thinking “what knives would I get? ... they often have nice knives in John Lewis”. So, I had a wee look and there are several knives, by brands mentioned above, that are heavily reduced at the moment.
Somebody may be interested.
Ah, no online sales sorry. Are their stores open? Goodness knows how many are available - looked good at first.
I’m confused about sharpening angles. Wusthof say the knives are 14 degree angle, but their own sharpener has a 17 degree angle…
The book I linked to above suggests 20° or 15° or for the best compromise of sharpness and durability a compound edge of 15/20°. I'm still practicising freehand sharpening on waterstones but I managed to achieve this on a medium quality chef's knife after very little practice. It's way sharper than it was when new (literally shaving sharp) and has stayed that way after a couple of months of daily use as long as I give it a few strokes with a ceramic "steel" every I use it.
This being STW, shouldn't we be recommending niche Japanese handmade knives from small-scale craftsmen?
Eg https://www.chefknivestogo.com/iswh2na16.html
I got a few Japanese knives a few years ago. They’re brilliant. Easy to sharpen, hold edge and are great to use. Favourites are steel core sandwiched between stainless. Need to dry them after washing to keep from corroding, but nothing ott in terms of care. I bought direct from japan and they weren’t that pricy. Got some Damascus stainless ones too, which are good but not as easy to sharpen as the steel core ones.
+1 for the wusthof!
I've got a couple of Wusthof Classic Ikon which are okay. I don't know if they worth the money or not but I'm happy with them.
Used to like checking out TK Maxx as you can often get some bargains there, if you're not fussed about having a matching set in a block?
Worth looking at a site called Hocho Knife (Hocho is kitchen in Japanese I believe)
https://www.hocho-knife.com/
I have 2 globals, one paring knife and one ~24cm chef's knife which in addition to a basic bread knife is all I need, although I hardly ever have meat or fish. One of these sharpeners designed for Japanese knives (correct sharpening angle) https://tinyurl.com/y6wpeqru, use the sharpener once a week and they stay sharp enough to regularly take a bit of my thumb off when concentration lapses.
Wusthof here, best knife I've got. Lovely balance, it keeps an edge but I haven't got it surgically sharp on purpose. This was a present but from the experience I'd certainly shell out for one.
+1 for Wusthof. Have been using them for a few years now. Started with a chef's knife, a paring knife, and a bread knife. Have added a couple of others but reality is those three are the ones I use most of the time. Quite heavy/chunky style of knife, particularly the 8" chef's knife. NB hand wash only - never in the dishwasher (also for other knives mentioned on this thread)
Got a fair few knives from different manufacturers (Global, Porsche, Sabatier, etc.) but I keep going back to my Robert Welch ones. Not stupidly expensive, look good and are extremely nice to use.
As mentioned above though, the correct STW answer is a cheap steel cleaver from your local Chinese supermarket.
At the 'everyday' end of the market, I've not had any issues with any knives I've got from IKEA...
Zwilling / J A Henckels 4Star have lasted me for around 30 years.
Usually available in sets at reasonable prices. TK Maxx seem to have them on a regular basis.
In the past I've been seduced by knife sets. Looks cool in the kitchen doesn't it? A nice polished wooden knife block with six or more blingy chrome handled knives in it. The thing is I hardly ever use anything except a chef's knife. I'm better at filleting with it than with a filleting knife, better at carving meat with it than with a dedicated carving knife, not to mention chopping veg and all the other stuff. It even does a fair job of slicing bread as long as you keep it sharp. I will admit to using a proper bread knife and occasionally a paring knife though! I reckon that if you spend the cost of a fancy knife set on a single good quality chef's knife it will outlive you and serve you very well for 99% of kitchen duties.
What… kitchen knives?
I tend to avoid knives with full or even half bolster as they can be difficult to sharpen with sharpening stone.
You can also try the Chinese slicing cleaver like this. They are very nice if you have not tried one before. They are small cleaver for slicing only. I have 3 of them. Zwilling are very nice if can fine them near you, otherwise Fenwick sells them and they plenty of good knives too.
This one looks nice from John Lewis and has been discounted to £40.25.
Fiskars Norden Wood Handle Large Cook's Knife, Natural/Silver
Or this one ->John Lewis & Partners Classic Cook's Knife
Hardness from 55 onward is fine as it is easy to sharpen.
I wouldn't recommend Wustoff if my experience is anything to go by. The tip snapped of the large carver and the rest have rusted/pitted/discoloured. Really disappointed.
If you do want to try the cheaper route, I saw a chef recommending these Thai knives in a paper roundup of recommendations.
If you do want to try the cheaper route, I saw a chef recommending these Thai knives in a paper roundup of recommendations.
Those KIWI brand knives are the workhorse in many SE Asian kitchens. Next time if I go home I shall buy a set as they very robust and cheap. Strong stainless steel, light and the edge can be maintain easily.
Get this one - Kiwi Chefs Knife (Pointed, 8")
Procook do a whole bunch of different knives, I’ve got the Nakiri from this range, and it’s a really nice knife. Through tang, and a really nice micarta scaled handle. For £26 it’s and absolute bargain.
https://www.procook.co.uk/shop/knives-scissors/knives-seperates
I'd check out tkmaxx as a few years ago i got a very nice Kai santuko knife for £30ish, same knife was £129 online, there's a lot of guff in tkmaxx though so check online for reviews before you buy
Procook do a whole bunch of different knives, I’ve got the Nakiri from this range, and it’s a really nice knife. Through tang, and a really nice micarta scaled handle. For £26 it’s and absolute bargain.
https://www.procook.co.uk/shop/knives-scissors/knives-seperates/blockquote >Good call on Procook especially this one £32... ProCook Professional X50 Cleaver
... I think I may get one meself.
If you want a good knife. Buy one good one rather than a few and a great place to start is a santoku and maybe compliment with a nakiri or a paring knife.
But buy a carbon steel knife rather than a stainless knife. Stainless is good for one thing - not rusting - and not much else esp holding an edge. Once a high carbon steel has a nice patina they are very easy to look after. Either buy one already forced, or force your own patina (wrap the knife blade in toilet paper and vinegar then tin foil for an hour or so) then all you have to do is dry the knife and it won’t rust.
Look for o1 tool steel as a minimum and you’ll have a knife that holds a super edge and minimum fuss. Damascus looks pretty but doesn’t bring anything to the party bar looks and they are more upkeep.
I got a block of 5 wusthof Grand Prix ii (forged) along with a honing Steel & shears for under £200 off HERE
It might seem a lot but they’re ace and replace a 15yr old pair of Zwilling four star chefs & paring knife
Their own brand Eden knives seem to get good reviews as well
Eden
I have global, wusthof, anolon, and Kai shun knives; and a Japanese nikiri of unknown provenance. Almost invariably I use one of the two Kai Shun - a small santoku, and a large western shape chef's knife.
If I were buying again, I would get a scalloped large santoku instead of the chef's knife, and that would be my recommendation to anyone buying "one good knife".
The Kai shun are just so much sharper than the wusthof. I use a couple of whetstones to sharpen every 3 months or so - I'm no master, but can get them sharp enough to scare me without much effort.
Might be tricky in the current climate but it's worth holding a few different knife shapes to see which you like. I'd echo sentiments above about buying one high quality knife to start with rather than a set, of which you're likely to find 2 favourites and never use the rest. A good quality Santoku or chef's knife is a decent place to start.
High carbon steel will hold an edge longer than stainless and be easier to sharpen, but the carbon steel can rust. Depends what your priorities are.
If you do one thing, buy a decent stone and learn to sharpen your own knives. That way any knife you have can, with 5mins on the stone, be better than 95% of the knives in the average home kitchen. This stone is the default recommendation and is what I have: https://www.amazon.com/KING-KW65-Combination-Whetstone-Plastic/dp/B001DT1X9O
Check out Alex "the french guy" on youtube for helpful and engaging sharpening tutorials.
+1 for Fibrox handled Victorinox, for practical use at sensible prices.
Buy some O1 steel and make your own 🙂
I bought a set of Global knives, 5 in total, in 2000. They get sharpened here https://www.japaneseknifecompany.com/ - £1/inch once a year and are still going strong. However I had a long chat with the chap when I took them to be sharpened a couple of years ago and his view is that Global are not as good as they were 20 years ago as they've changed the lay-up/materials they use.
I have some Sabatier (both Lion and original types) and a coupe of Global knocking around. I have to say that the Global (older type) hold a better edge than the Sabatier and are more comfortable to use.
I do like the look of the Sabatier though, especially the older versions. A shame I seem to have lost tips on a couple for no good reason.
https://www.knivesandtools.com/en/ct/kitchen-knives.htm
Go wild.
Most of what I would say has already been covered, but here it is anyway:
Knife sets are usually very poor value, generally better to buy individual knives.
You really only need 1 good chef's knife and a bread knife, everything else is just a nice-to-have.
Victorinox Fibrox is well-recommended as a relatively inexpensive but good knife, Wusthof Ikon is recommended as a step-up from that.
Reddit has a good sub (r/chefknives) that has a lot of good advice and a good getting started section - it's very US focused though so not all of their recommendations will be easily available.
As someone else mentioned, Robert Welch knives are pretty decent for the price. I didn't buy a set but picked up a selection of them over time.
I have a small chefs knife, carving knife, fileting knife, santoku knife, small paring knife and serrated utility (tomato?) knife.
I don't really like the serrated knife that much as due to the serrations it wont cut straight (that could be me though) but the rest have all been great and get used regularly.
They sharpen pretty easily and hold the edge, handles are comfortable and they are balanced nicely too.
On top of those I have a set of opinel veg prep knives https://uk.knivesandtools.eu/en/pt/-opinel-001709-les-essentiels-primavera.htm Cheap, sharp and nicely sized for the job. An Opinel bread knife which again is cheap and sharp. A large River Cottage Chef's knife I picked during a visit there a few years ago, this is my go to knife for most daily tasks.
And my latest purchase which I hope should arrive today is a totally Unnecessary, over the top, Medieval Cooks knife cleaver from Tod Cutler for big cuts of meat and BBQ duties. https://todcutler.com/products/cooks-cleaver-12th-15thc
And I still haven't learnt how to use whetstones, so before I buy any more knives I need to get that sorted!
Agree with the above, Victorinox Fibrox are more than good enough for 99% of home chefs, they're just hard to get excited about. Sort of like an Orange 5
I bought my brother a set of Wusthof Classic Ikon's as they got a lot of recommendations (I also lurk on r\chefknives), generally you shouldn't buy sets as you're usually better off buying 3 good but different knives over a set of 6+ average knives that have a lot of use overlap. Also there's quite a few reports in the US about fake Wusthof knives/sets on Amazon & eBay, wouldn't surprise me if they were a problem here to so I'd say buy from a reputable company.
Personally I've bought IOShen knives as my better quality ones, I think they're a good compromise between Japanese and Western style knives. The handles are pretty chunky though so not great for people with small hands https://ioshen.co.uk/
Bookmarked!
I’ve had wusthoff classic ikon for 10 years now and love them -very sharp, comfortable to hold and nicely balanced.
As others have said, don’t buy a set -less is more with kitchen knives as many of them are too task specific to be much use. I recommend a bread knife, small paring or utility and a santoku- the scalloped edges help stop food sticking to the blade as you chop and it has all the uses that a large Flat bladed knife has, but is more versatile.
Also, consider your storage. Knife racks with slots will slowly dull the edge as it makes direct contact with the slot. Better to have a wooden magnetic rack so only the face of the blade makes contact with the magnetic strip, which is Of softer material than the steel blade. Also takes up no worktop space. Win!
Correction - wall mounted racks take up no space. Freestanding Magnetic ones are available.
Had a wander around Bath this afternoon, first time since March, and I noticed that a shop that used to be a kitchen shop, is now Procook!
Just off the bottom of Milsom Street in Quiet Street, for anyone in the area who might be interested.
This opinel bread knife?
https://www.knivesandtools.co.uk/en/pt/-opinel-bread-knife-n-116-21-cm.htm
This is what I would buy if I didn't already have a decent-ish Eden one. I like the look of the curved blade.
This block that goes in a drawer works well for us for storage.
https://www.procook.co.uk/product/procook-knife-drawer-block-bamboo
I can't see how wooden slots are going to dull blades too much?
Thats the one Grum, it's best bread knife i've had so far and at £24 its a bargain.
This has been an very useful thread and has convinced me that I need a new santoku knife to replace an aging Henckels knife that has a cracked handle.
So should I get this...
https://www.procook.co.uk/product/procook-professional-x50-santoku-knife-18cm-7
Or pay the extra for this...
https://www.kitchenknives.co.uk/wusthof-classic-santoku-knife-17cm/
Or something else? Wouldn't want to pay any more than the price of that Wusthof one though.
Neither, split the cost difference and get this one instead
https://www.robertwelch.com/products/signature-santoku-knife-17cm
Brilliant knife; had mine for about eight years now, use it loads of times every day, expect to enjoy using it for decades to come.
More generally, Robert Welch probably best value option if you want something functional and attractive. If looks not an issue then Victorinox, Dicks etc with plastic handles are cheaper. Ideally get to a shop and handle as many different knives as possible; it's pointless going cheap if doesn't feel right and you won't enjoy using it. And similarly it's pointless paying for Global, Whusthof etc if there's an equally good but cheaper option you like.
Cheers Pacman. That's helpful.
Looks like Victorinox do a santoku too so that's a couple of good options in that kind of price range.
https://www.victorinox.com/uk/en/Products/Cutlery/Chefs-Knives/Fibrox-Santoku-Knife/p/5.2523.17
I wouldn't get hung up on a Santoku with scallops either - there's a reason most high-end versions don't have them, they aren't needed on a thinner blade with harder steel (Japanese style). What did you actually want a Santoku for, if mostly veg chopping and if you already have a decent chef's knife I'd look at a Nakiri instead. It lacks the point of a Santoku (hence you need a chef's knife as well) but can be better for chopping due to the flatter blade.
Between the two Santoku's you linked I'd go with the Wusthof, it's harder steel so should retain it's edge better + they have very comfy handles (for most people)
The MAC nakiri I have is great.
I wouldn’t get hung up on a Santoku with scallops either – there’s a reason most high-end versions don’t have them, they aren’t needed on a thinner blade with harder steel (Japanese style). What did you actually want a Santoku for, if mostly veg chopping and if you already have a decent chef’s knife I’d look at a Nakiri instead. It lacks the point of a Santoku (hence you need a chef’s knife as well) but can be better for chopping due to the flatter blade.
Between the two Santoku’s you linked I’d go with the Wusthof, it’s harder steel so should retain it’s edge better + they have very comfy handles (for most people)
I'm looking for something to be my one main, all purpose knife. My old Henckels is fairly knackered and isn't a full size chef's knife anyway.
I am quite tempted to go for the Robert Welch as recommended by Pacman. Seems to be at a similar level to the Wusthof but at a rather more palatable price. That said, I'll probably be asking for the knife as a birthday present so might give SWMBO the links for those two and see which one she buys...
For anyone interested, ProCook have a special offer on for the Nakiri that I’ve got, currently available for £19, which is an absolute steal!
https://www.procook.co.uk/product/procook-professional-x50-precision-vegetable-knife-18cm-7?utm_source=ProCook+Newsletter&utm_campaign=0fe3cf70d7-June_Flash_2_Nakiri_Engaged_2020_06_24&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_bbc2b34d56-0fe3cf70d7-160950177&mc_cid=0fe3cf70d7&mc_eid=3c68066686
Bit of a thread bump.
Any recent deals for knives at the cheaper end of the market?
👍
Personally, I'd go for a decent IKEA one and spend the difference on biking.
I've owned "nice" knives before but haven't missed them since relocating and buying a the above to see me through. 6 years and going strong. There's a reason that chefs use pretty standard efforts in pro kitchens. 1000% of the price for 5% performance improvement, imo. You're best off spending any extra cash on a decent steel.
There were some wustoff knives in home sense the other day.
You might find some in tk maxx or your locsn home sense- they are the same company.
A plus one for the Ikea knives. The Santoku is wickedly sharp and is holding it's edge well for the bargain price of £9.
Also if you have a partner like Mrs Sandwich it doesn't matter if they use them as a lever and ben or break the point!
https://www.amazon.co.uk/ZELITE-INFINITY-Santoku-Knife-Inch/dp/B016V4UV52
I really like my zelite santoku knife, much prefer it to the globals I've used. For a cheaper decent knife I like the victorinox fibrox.
Are pro cook x50 any good? Look a reasonable price?
@mrl I'll let you know tomorrow when my Nakiri turns up. For £30 delivered it seemed churlish to turn my nose up.
Tier 4 has put my local TKmax search on hold for the mo.
Lakeside is too far to make it worthwhile and I'd end up buying lots of tat lol.
It seems Pro-Cook cancelled my order and charged me £4 for the privilege! Wouldn't recommend them on this basis. No knife and a small enough charge to make it irksome to chase up the refund.
It's either theft or fraud.
I know nothing of cooking knife brands, but my mate in work brings me his cooking knives to sharpen for him every year, just before Xmas. Sabatier ,he tells me. They hold a wicked sharp edge, literally razor sharp (my left arm is bald now) , and when they come back to me after a year of hard use (he is a bit of a foodie), they arent in bad shape at all.
These are old but are obviously made of decent steel. In contrast , he brought me a knife made of some so called wonder stainless , cant remember what it was, lots of cr and numbers and vanadium and nickel. Thing wouldnt even take a razor sharp edge.
Sabatier isn't actually a make though, could refer to quite a few different knives.
I bow to your superior knowledge, @grum, I just sharpen them for him. Whatever they are though, I was impressed.
i was totally convinced on getting some posh japanese knives, or global, or similar. i was in Nesbitts with a chef friend and he advised me to get Victorinox knives. Not the most exciting things but as tools they are brilliant. relatively inexpensive and very easy to keep sharp. He said that pretty much all good chefs he knows have multiple sets of the high ends knives which are great when razor sharp, but are a pain to maintain well. The victorinox are very easy to keep sharp....they are also nice to hold and use.....which is pretty much what any tool should do!
Was going to be a bit contrary and suggest oxo good grips professional. But apparently they don’t do them anymore. Shame as I’ve got a couple and they’re easy to maintain.
The other advantage of the Victorinox knives over more expensive ones is that you don't cry as much when you leave them in a rented holiday caravan...
i have a few procook X30s (paring, utility, santoku 5"+7", bread and cleaver)
all seem good, got a free Nihon Nakiri with it too, which was nice
We have 2 big knives that we use all the time and happily interchange with each other if we're both prepping at the same time. One is a 45 year old Sabatier - the sort that goes rusty - and the other is a £6 TK-Maxx job. Both sharpened with one of those Kitchen Devils pull-through monstrosities, well except for when I give them a bit of TLC with maybe my diamond chisel sharpening stones or a steel every few months or so.
I know it's heresy to say so but they both get a fantastically sharp edge with just a couple of pulls and they're really a delight to use.