[Closed] What is the point of the national speed limit sign?

D0NK - Member
Huge numbers of peple don't know the limit.
and huge numbers know but don't care, differentiating between the two will be tricky.

And huge numbers (like me) were taught it meant end of speed restriction and haven't paid much attention to highway codes nor any other BS since. Except that bit where they made us wear helmets on m/bikes and came out with that godawful machine they stuck in your mouth to tell if you'd been drinking too much.

It's a bit of a misnomer, lots of big heavy stuff is limited to 56mph, not by law, but it's give-or-take the most efficient speed, a sort of sweet spot between speed and air resistance.

I stand corrected then, I always assumed it was the legal limit.

If it's voluntary, why not fit 'push to pass' buttons to raise it to 60 for a minute so they can overtake each other, rather than trying to do it at 56.1mph because they have new tyre on with more tread?

And huge numbers (like me) were taught.....

(I guess "taught" by stupid teachers is a third option)

A road with a 30mph limit is a restricted road, and just like a road with a 40 or 50 limit, it does have repeaters, it's just that they're nearly always lampposts instead of signs. A 30mph limit is not a NSL.

D0NK - Member
And huge numbers (like me) were taught.....
<insert futurama gif here>can't tell if trolling or stupid.
(I guess "taught" by stupid teachers is a third option)

[img] [/img]

tyrionl1: but surely you know that the speed restriction has ended when the man with the red flag stops walking in front of your mechanical carriage?

lol@ 'where the speed limit ends' ahhh so that's it's history.

The sad thing.. I don't even know or remember when it changed.

Shouldn't they have sent us all a new Highway Code? This 1947 edition is getting dogeared.. 😉

[quote=tyrionl1 ]The sad thing.. I don't even know or remember when it changed.
I thought it was 1973 - during the oil crisis (i.e. it was reduced and then never fully raised)

Shouldn't they have sent us all a new Highway Code?

They did. It's freely available right here:
https://www.gov.uk/browse/driving/highway-code

This 1947 edition is getting dogeared..

1946 according to the filename.

Which, if you passed your driving test at 17, makes you 86. Maybe it's time to have another read there great grandad.

And huge numbers (like me) were taught it meant end of speed restriction and haven't paid much attention to highway codes nor any other BS since.

I remember when I was an inquisitive kid my grandad telling me it meant "end of restriction," that would've been maybe late 70s (and I'm pretty sure I've seen that copy of THC). In hindsight he was wrong of course, but presumably that was how he would've been taught.

Late 60s it changed, I think. So you've only had about 5 decades to adapt to the change. Thinking about it I can't imagine there's many of those "huge numbers" still driving; they'd have to be, what, aged 65+ at least, probably pushing 70.

I thought it was 1973 - during the oil crisis (i.e. it was reduced and then never fully raised)

Just looked it up - started trials in 1965 and was made permanent in 1967.

Found it (assuming Wikipedia has it correct)

In July 1967, Castle announced that 70 mph (113 km/h) was to become the permanent maximum speed limit for all roads and motorways. She had accepted RRL evidence that the speed limit had reduced the number of casualties on motorways. She ruled out minimum speed limits for motorways which would also reduce the danger of slow traffic as being too difficult to enforce and likely to increase congestion off the motorways.

Then it was reduced to 50 (oil crisis) and then increased to 60/70. That's the bit I was remembering.

ISTR in the oil crisis there was a temporary national limit of 55, whether actual or just proposed I don't recall.

(edit) or was it 50 in the UK?

Does no one read the links I post? 😉

From page 1:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_speed_limits_in_the_United_Kingdom#1973_oil_crisis

[quote=Cougar ]Apropos of nothing; I remember 56mph being used in car adverts years ago, quoted next to fuel economy figures. I think it was considered to be the most economical speed, for reasons that I don't really understand (didn't they call it 'the urban cycle' or some such?).

It was simply the speed the economy was tested at (actually 90km/h as you identified) rather than being the most economical speed - normally slower is more economical down to at least 40mph. Figures were quoted for economy at that steady speed and for the urban cycle, which was a protocol involving varying lower speeds. Those were the two things they were required to measure. The confusion comes because the 56mph economy was always a lot higher - I know I also used to think that meant it was the most economical speed.

Neither is 56mph the most economical speed for HGVs - that is also a lot lower, I would guess even lower than the most economical speed for cars.

The 56mph for HGVs comes about because there are two separate laws here. Firstly there is the law on NSLs where the maximum for an HGV on a motorway is 60mph. However HGVs are also required to be fitted with a speed limiter which must be set to 56mph. A quick google suggests that when these were first required to be fitted they were set to 60mph, however 56mph (90km/h) came in as a result of EU harmonisation. Therefore an HGV doing 60 on the motorway isn't breaking the law regarding speed limits, but presumably is breaking the law regarding calibration of the speed limiter (I don't know what tolerance is allowed).

I was quite surprised driving home on the spacesaver from holiday last year (80km/h?) how high the MPG went, exceeded the manufacturers quoted figure by significant amount so I'm guessing their figures are still done at 56mph?

Ah, interesting. Thanks for posting (aracer). Yeah, the "urban cycle" being a series of tests / speeds makes more sense, 90kph isn't really an urban speed...! It was supposed to represent typical 'round town' driving I suppose.

I don't suppose the 56mph thing makes much practical difference anyway. A calibrated speedometer at 56mph and an uncalibrated one reading 60mph in other vehicles is probably the same actual speed or as close as makes no odds.

Cougar - Moderator

Late 60s it changed, I think. So you've only had about 5 decades to adapt to the change. Thinking about it I can't imagine there's many of those "huge numbers" still driving; they'd have to be, what, aged 65+ at least, probably pushing 70.

There a still parts of the UK where it's still a valid 'end of restriction' sign and denotes stretches of road where there are no speed limits.

I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader as to where, but they're pretty popular spots 🙂

Where you're presumably thinking of isn't part of the UK 😉

Isle of Man...

Passed my Bike test in '64, driving a year later '65, still got the red license, but it was sadly replaced by a green paper one which is currently held together with selotape and causes much confusion renting cars overseas.

Never really agreed to the idea of photos on drivers licenses, smacked a bit of ID cards by the back door which of course they now are.

Thank you for the link to the Highway Code, I do have one now, those nice people on the [s]anger management[/s] speed awareness course gave me one, they not being happy at my bath chair travelling at 33 mph through Southampton.

Edit for cougar, the huge numbers were the rest of us post war baby boomers, lots of us still about refusing to grow old gracefully.

smacked a bit of ID cards by the back door which of course they now are.

Are they? Can't say I've ever been asked to produce mine.

Are they? Can't say I've ever been asked to produce mine.

Surely you have all the time just like he none drivers are too.

Surely you have all the time just like he none drivers are too.

Put down the whisky Drac.

It makes me an awesome driver.

exceeded the manufacturers quoted figure by significant amount so I'm guessing their figures are still done at 56mph?

No, the standardised tests are a variety of conditions and speeds - well, a cursory attempt at them anyway.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_European_Driving_Cycle#Test_procedure

GrahamS - Member
smacked a bit of ID cards by the back door which of course they now are.
Are they? Can't say I've ever been asked to produce mine.

Really? So you what, (going to guess here,) live your entire life in front of a computer?

Do you bother to get dressed in the morning?

Please tell me you're not typing your response naked.

Eh? I don't (quite) live my whole life in front of a computer, have driven more than 200k miles and have never been required to produce a photocard licence either. Which is quite fortunate in a way given I passed my test in '87 and have lived at the same address for the last 18 years...

p.s. IIRC there was also a quoted MPG at 75mph (120km/h)

[img] [/img]

This is also not a dual carriageway, 60 limit but I'm not sure how many people know this.

Really? So you what, (going to guess here,) live your entire life in front of a computer?

I'm a software engineer, so yeah I do. Though I currently work from a serviced office so I do have to put my pants on these days. 😀

Presumably because you don't have a photocard you can't do all those things that apparently require it like... erm...?

How do you live?

ebygomm: yeah the rules do get a bit arbitrary when the carriageways get split far enough apart. No idea why.

Indeed - presumably the limit somewhat arbitrarily changes from 70 to 60 somewhere about here heading North https://goo.gl/maps/NCwRO

I've always seen it as an end of previous limit sign and thus national limit applies appropriate for road and vehicle, and that fits with a number of other black on white diagonal line type of signs. More so in other countries where they use a lot more "end of" signs. Those that tell you the end of the village/town boundary for example. End of many restrictions in UK just say "end" though compared to European signs which use the diagonal line.

One I didn't know/forgotten about but was informed about in my *ahem* speed awareness course, is legal mandatory speed limits are just the red bordered circles. Signs that aren't, saying things like "max speed" in a square sign, are purely advisory.

[i]No - the national speed limit is (currently) a variable limit depending upon vehicle but 60mph for cars and other light vehicles. Where there are streetlights, the limit is 30mph unless otherwise indicated.

Seriously, some of you shouldn't be driving.

Rachel [/i]

Just make sure you keep to the inside lane on a dual, if you're only doing 60 😉

aracer - Member
Indeed - presumably the limit somewhat arbitrarily changes from 70 to 60 somewhere about here heading North https://goo.gl/maps/NCwRO
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In the absence of any visible repeaters I'd say 30mph down to the roundabout, then 70 through the leafy bit (see one way signs)

In the absence of any visible repeaters I'd say 30mph down to the roundabout, then 70 through the leafy bit (see one way signs)

Roundabout to traffic lights is NSL - 70 mph
One way section through leafy bit - 60 mph

Edit: Tell a lie actually, they've recently put 50mph signs up through the leafy bit going north, 60mph going south

Go on then I'll bite...
What makes those speed limits apparent?

National Speed Limit signs from the adjoining 30/40mph roads, dual carriageway + central reservation = 70mph

One way signs on the bit north of the traffic lights indicating not a dual carriageway but one way street = 60mph

Having had a bit more of a look around the are on streetview it's all just chaos around there isn't it!
I still can't see any repeaters on the DC stretch though (although handily, there is a one way sign for traffic entering it from a field - make of that what you will...) so presumably you could actually be done for exceeding 30mph...

And here's another fun one for you...
Dropped pin
near A57, Worksop, Nottinghamshire S80 3AR
http://goo.gl/maps/pI2xH

Explain the speed limits on this stretch...

GrahamS - Member
Really? So you what, (going to guess here,) live your entire life in front of a computer?
I'm a software engineer, so yeah I do. Though I currently work from a serviced office so I do have to put my pants on these days.

Presumably because you don't have a photocard you can't do all those things that apparently require it like... erm...?

How do you live?

How do I live? A long time ago on a planet far far away from software engineer world, that's for sure.

At my height, i also need it to get served in bars.

[quote=tyrionl1 ]Got asked for it only yesterday, some solar panel salesman wanting it, very disappointed when i showed him the paper one.OK, I'll bite. Why would a solar panel salesman want to to see your driving licence?

scotroutes - Member
tyrionl1 » Got asked for it only yesterday, some solar panel salesman wanting it, very disappointed when i showed him the paper one.
OK, I'll bite. Why would a solar panel salesman want to to see your driving licence?

It's no more an ID card than a statement from your bank or a bill from a utility supplier. You need to move this over to the tinfoil hat thread.