[Closed] What is better than a Sony RX100 iv compact camera?

A proper camera. Any DSLR plus a basic and telephoto lens will massively outperform it. I’m not sure if there is a better compact camera though.

Its ace as a compact. I will keep it.

My earlier photographic equipment was 35mm slr so im way behind the curve in what i need in a dslr.

Does anything stand out?

Been thinking similar thoughts.
My iii has developed into randomly working or not.

I think it depends what you’re after. I went from 35mm to DSLR and then back to compacts, with a brief stint with micro 4/3. I did have an RX10 IV for a time and found it great for certain things, but I really like wildlife bird and insect / macro photography and as soon as I needed manual control over autofocus, depth of field etc I found it infuriating. Also never enjoy digital viewfinders - no matter how high def they supposedly are you can’t see the light in the eye that makes a good wildlife picture for instance.
What improvement are you after? I think from an image quality point of view the Sony does pretty well.
I prefer Canon when it comes to DSLRs but that’s probably more about the lenses.

I’m not entirely sure I know what you mean by better image quality or if you know what you mean by better image quality but at that budget if you wanted something that was also still relatively compact and had what I regard as being much better colour rendition (which is how I interpret better image quality) they have a look at the Fuji X 100 or indeed any of the other X range cameras with interchangeable lenses. The way they process colour is significantly more naturalistic than the Sony interpretation which I always found was far too oversaturated especially in the red channel. Of course if you really want to go to something a whole order of magnitude nicer than find medium format film camera 😂👍

Exactly - yes if you’re looking at lovely images straight out of the box plus compact size then the X100 is amazing, provided you’re ok with a fixed lens. I would like one of these as well as my DSLR so I can have it for landscapes and general snaps but I know very soon I’ll be wishing I had the DSLR instead.

I was in a similar position when looking to “upgrade” a Panasonic lumix lx-10, which I’d bought in preference to an RX100 for reasons I can’t remember.

It’s not really about image quality though. My iPhone takes great pictures. Yes, in theory, a larger sensor will give you more light to play with and if you stick it on a tripod you can get images that are noticeably higher quality (at least if you blow them up) but remember that the phone is doing lots of image processing, often combining multiple images to get the final picture that you see. Its algorithms are very good at analysing the scene and processing the image in just the right way. But you are leaving all those decisions to the software. What a “proper” camera means to me is having more creative control. Are the pictures any better than I could shoot on my phone? Probably not, but I have more fun making the image.

So, after all that preamble, what I did was to hop on MBP and pick up a Fuji XT10 in excellent condition for around £200. I spent about the same on an XF 27mm pancake lens. The combination is small enough to slip in a pocket, pack or my handlebar bag but I can also use a couple of old manual lenses from back in the day that we had lying around.

I like the physical buttons on the Fuji and I find the process of looking through the evf more immersive than using a phone. As others have said the colours straight out of camera on the Fuji are lovely. With the lumix I would always shoot raw and spend ages editing in Lightroom. With the Fuji I still have the raw file just in case but hardly ever touch it. I’ve got lots of control of the image out in the field (different film simulations, highlight and shadow settings etc) and can also do things like applying different film simulations to an image after shooting on the camera.

So TLDR: it’s not really about image quality but I prefer the experience of trying to take decent pictures on my Fuji XT10 to the old compact camera or phone.

provided you’re ok with a fixed lens

You can get some flexibility with it via adapters that work very well. There are 35mm (50mm FOV 35mm equiv) and, I think, 19mm (28mm FOV) available. They aren’t cheap mind even second hand from MPB.com

The other compact, large sensor camera that most people ignore, perhaps understandably, is the Ricoh GR. I understandably because until recently the only lens option was 19mm (28mm FOV in 35mm terms) which is just too wide for most people. However they now do one with a 26mm (40mm) lens. It still doesn’t have a view finder though but it does have an aps-c sensor in a camera only marginally bigger than the Sony RX100.

I’m not entirely sure I know what you mean by better image quality or if you know what you mean by better image quality

I’d be amazed if the image quality isn't good enough for your current camera. Basically image quality means how big you can print. Are you making 30 inch prints and they look soft? Then yes you need better image quality. If your low light photos are noisy printed or on screen viewing the whole image then yes a bigger sensor will help.

Reasons to change camera might be easier access to settings, better low light ability, more reach, more wide angle, shallower depth of field

These are mine from the rx100

https://www.flickr.com/gp/john_clinch/d7TA40

It all depends what you intend to use your next camera for. The RX100 line is hard to beat for pocket-ability. It IS a “proper camera”. I own a MK4 and the IQ is perfectly acceptable for anything unless you’re printing billboards. In theory its smaller sensor won’t have the dynamic range of something bigger but its excellent. All depends what you want to do? Landscape, portrait, wildlife or just a bit of everything? Have a look at the Ricohs if you like a compact. They’re class.

The primary problem with moving up from a compact to either a mirrorless (increasingly competitive nowadays) or a dslr is it isnt just the camera body but all the lenses you need to think about.
The starter for ten is what sort of usage do you want? Landscapes, sport, macro blah blah?
Are you wanting something you can really fiddle about with the exact composition or just take good photos without spending too much time sacrificing virgins and reading their entrails to get the best settings?

I’m not entirely sure I know what you mean by better image quality or if you know what you mean by better image quality

This is an excellent question and would require OP answering as fully as possible in order for any recommendation to make any sense.

this dpreview thread is illuminating

Camera IQ evidently means a lot of different things to a lot of different photographers, both amateur and pro. For some it means out-of-the-camera sharpness, and/or intelligent imaging. For another - sensor and pixel size combined with matched quality lens and/or light-collecting ability.

‘Objective metrics’ for IQ arguably exist though. Maybe take a look at Ubergizmo camera IQ benchmark score ?

Also, OP, are you meaning another compact zoom or some other format?

For my part (fine art landscape photographer, wide format print for 20 years now) I sometimes use a compact for ‘sketch’ shots and colour references, or for when a DSLR + prime lens isn’t required/can’t be arsed carrying.

I actually traded ‘down’ from an RX100 (in terms of sensor size) because I prefer the image ‘character’, colours and lens performance of the replacement (Pentax MX-1)

Here’s a interesting comparison video from long ago

Have my eye on a Foveon sensor for subsequent adventures into compact cameras, so probably a Sigma DP Merrill or Quattro. But I realise this will take work to draw the best from the potential ‘IQ’. Others may prefer something more ‘out of the camera’ . While others may be looking at DSLR or even medium format.

eg how does a Phase One XT IQ4 stack up?:

RESOLUTION
151-megapixels
DYNAMIC RANGE
15 f-stops
SENSITIVITY (ISO)
50 - 25600
LONG EXPOSURE
60 minutes
SENSOR TYPE
CMOS (BSI)
ACTIVE PIXELS
14204 x 10652
OUTPUT IMAGE DIM. 300 DPI

Camera IQ evidently means a lot of different things to a lot of different photographers, both amateur and pro.

That is a key point. I prefer the images from my Sony A77 with a 50 1.8 lens over anything my iPhone gets but only ever look at the images on a 22" monitor (not counting any large aperture/low light stuff which iPhone can't physically compete with)
My wife on the other hand doesn't really see or care about the difference between the two and is only interested in the composition/subject/"art value" of the image.

As my photos never get onto billboards she is probably judging the photos on the right criteria.

The camera which got me what I felt were my best photos was a Fuji X100 and while that fixed lens is going to be a problem for a lot of people I think it somehow forced a certain way of taking and thinking about the photo

Compact camera? None better? I keep itching to try a Fuji X100 which a few folks here have suggested and https://www.kenrockwell.com/fuji/x100.htm

Mirrorless compact sensor? You might find the Sony 6xxx cameras better while still being almost pocketable. Sony’s range of lenses is there but Sigma do some nicer primes.

SLR? Lots of 2/3 frame SLRs. Unsure how much better they’ll do than a compact mirrorless with a viewfinder. Lots of used ones available to try though.

Full frame? Bigger cameras whether you go mirrorless or SLR. Is any gain in quality worth the extra bulk and cost to you?

I took my RX100i as a backup on a trip when my main camera was an Olympus OMD-EM1. The Oly conked out after a bit so it was lucky I had the backup. Unfortunately it had only a rear screen to compose the pictures so composition was a bit hit and miss in bright sun. But when I got home I saw that I couldn't tell which camera I'd used on which picture. So I went out and bought an RX100iv to get the viewfinder.

Having said that, it's a camera that stays home most of the time because I just don't enjoy using it; I'm not sure exactly why.

So TLDR: it’s not really about image quality but I prefer the experience of trying to take decent pictures on my Fuji XT10 to the old compact camera or phone.

I'd second this, I have an xt20 and the same 27mm lens amongst others. When I want to try something different I buy another lens.

Have my eye on a Foveon sensor for subsequent adventures into compact cameras, so probably a Sigma DP Merrill or Quattro.

DO they still make the Foveon sesor? I think the current Sigma cameras all use Bayer array sensors so a Foveon would mean a second hand purchase. You're aware of their reputation for being a pain in the ass to work with in post right? Not impossible but the work flow was always notoriously challenging, which is a shame because the results from those cameras are among the most analogue like of all digital cameras I've seen.

@judetheobscure

My Foveon fascination makes little sense to anyone with a busy schedule. It’s a curio on my ‘to do’ backburner for old age if I get there.

Curious also that I’m ready and willing to navigate the UI/compatibility/performance obstacles with an old Sigma, yet not so for the RX100. Likewise, I may find a Sigma too frustrating to be bothered in the long run but am prepared to give it some time if I can squeeze out something remarkable and reliable.

The RX100 had its chance though. I bought it with the expectation of being a reliable high IQ easy to use pocketable ‘do it all’ compact zoom. It was pocketable, and the IQ was sometimes remarkable for what it was. But it was ultimately a fiddly and frustrating nightmare to use and the results (for me) were often displeasing with digital processing artifacts and an ‘unnatural’ appearance. The MX-1 fixed all of that but is less pocketable and yet a much smaller sensor.

The older Sigma (Foveon sensor) compacts I mentioned are somewhat of an eccentric project I have in mind. It’s not that they are compact which interests me, but that they have the Foveon sensor. So I planned for an exploration/experimentation of ‘outsider art’ rather than a useful camera in the everyday sense. I like the idea of digging in to some cranky potential and mining something rare.

The Sony RX100 I found to be just a fiddly, unintuitive PITA when away from full auto, especially where I just wanted it to be a nice simple thing to use creatively, and the images invariably had a (albeit very highly detailed) ‘smartphone’ flat feel to them. Not overtly, yet just enough to bug the bejayzuz out of me.

The MX-1 (though it feels nearly twice the physical size and weight by comparison) is genuinely pleasant and intuitive to use. Has onboard ND and a dedicated exposure comp dial. It also delivers very natural-looking shots for what it is. Small 4000px x 3000px images they may be but the images it (easily) produces are to my eye much more reliably realistic photographic records of the subject than I can manage with my smartphone. This is all that I want from an everyday compact(ish) zoom.

Here are a few untouched jpegs straight out of the MX-1 from a few days ago:

https://imgbox.com/Pf7lGqrA
https://imgbox.com/tMIqgIDZ
https://imgbox.com/TzY7QGWt

If I want to make a wide-format or billboard-sized print from a compact zoom (hardly ever, there are other cameras for that) then I’ll just shoot RAW and let the printer RIP interpolate.

Sorry for the delay in replying.

Thanks for everyone's input. It would have been more accurate for me to say that i get pictures i like, but i find the process of getting them from the camera quite taxing.

Sat in the house and having a little practice, everyrhing seems ok. As soon as i need to use it out and about in anything but auto mode i find it obstructive and a little frustrating.

Argh

Ian

Sat in the house and having a little practice, everyrhing seems ok. As soon as i need to use it out and about in anything but auto mode i find it obstructive and a little frustrating.

Yep, it's because Sony isn't a camera maker; they makes sensors but not cameras and it shows up in their user interfaces, which are just awful.

Agreed the Sony interface is really annoying, although if part of the desire is for control over focus, depth of field etc then most compact cameras are a nightmare in anything but auto mode.

A good middle ground would be a micro 4/3 camera which should have a much more intuitive interface but the ability to still stay very compact and the advantage of choice of further lenses in the future.

Maybe it's because I've used Sony cameras for the past decade, but I don't find it tricky at all.

ISO - lens ring

Aperture and shutter - back dial (hit the bottom of the dial to toggle)

Everything else I need is in the customisable FN menu  - see pic.

[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51964759564_435bcbf9f1_k.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51964759564_435bcbf9f1_k.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://www.flickr.com/gp/85252658@N05/0TG9e1 ]2022-03-27_05-22-52[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/85252658@N05/ ]davetheblade[/url], on Flickr

Some of the buttons are customisable too. The main menu is a bit of a PITA agreed, but I don't often need to go in there

Maybe i need to try harder!! I shall go and get it and find some more tutorials

Ian

Maybe i need to try harder!! I shall go and get it and find some more tutorials

Ian

When I first got a Sony A55, David Busch's book was a great guide. From there, I went to A77ii and RX100iv using tutorials for any new bits I didn't know

Some day someone will make a digital camera with just shutter speed, apperture, ISO, exposure comp and maybe an aperture priority mode and that's it. Nothing else, not even a screen on the back.

Oh wait hang on, some already did. Shame they charge £5k for it.

Sat in the house and having a little practice, everyrhing seems ok. As soon as i need to use it out and about in anything but auto mode i find it obstructive and a little frustrating.

That’s basically what drove me to switch from the LUMIX to the Fuji. It wasn’t that the lumix couldn’t take good pictures it was just that, despite buying a book that explained everything, I could never seem to get it to do what I wanted when I was out and about. I could leave it in auto of course, but then the experience was no different to my phone and the pictures weren’t any better as far as I could tell.

I think it was just trying to do too much really. There were loads of modes and functions but I never really worked out how to get the best out of them and often couldn’t remember how to access them without looking at the book.

The Fuji has physical dials for the things that I want to change and despite not having a touch screen (being an older model) I find it much more intuitive to use.

An obvious choice (similar format yet with Canon controls/UI) would be the G5X mkii?

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-powershot-g5-x-mark-ii-review/6