[Closed] what do we think of acupuncture?

Last saw me dad in December, flat on his back in hospital begging for an operation.

Went for a visit again this weekend and it's a different story. He's been having acupuncture for about eight weeks, and that with the corset is making him rethink wanting the op. He's up and about, even driving. The morphine might help mind, but he's been lowering the dose to practically nothing.

He's an engineer by training and normally very cynical of anything new-agey, but in this case he's been convinced.

Hope that helps.

I had a bit when my back was borked. My physio didn't believe the new-age guff, and had made up her own cod-scientific guff instead to explain why it worked. Which it did, to some extent. 🙂

I think that the general consensus on STW is that whilst acupuncture is clearly mumbo-jumbo nonsense which science has proved doesn't work, it has cured people including me.

So what's your question - do you want to know if it works, or do you want to know whether it cures people ? Because I'm afraid there's two different possible answers there.

It's a bit like asking whether bumblebees can fly. Science and bumblebees won't necessarily give the same answer.

Properly blinded trials studying the effectiveness of acupuncture for back pain found no statistically significant effect for acupuncture. However trials that were not blinded i.e. where the patients knew whether they were being given proper acupuncture or not showed a massive statistically significant effect for acupuncture- the placebo effect is amazingly strong.

In case you're wondering the placebo control for acupuncture is "sham" acupuncture using fake needles or needles put in the "wrong" places

BTW Ernie, science is quite happy about why bumblebees can fly.

science is quite happy about why bumblebees can fly.

But only recently I believe.

Must have come as a relief to bumblebees when it was decided that it was ok for them to fly.

4 months of Chiro and massage with acupuncture worked.

I wouldn't expect 4 weeks to fix you.

But go to a decent chiro-registered at least.

Did you actually get a diagnosis? the treatments can work for certain conditions and useless for other conditions.

You'll feel a bit of a pr!ck

Chiro and acupuncture worked for me on a long standing neck problem. Either that or the £400 I shelled out for a new mattress...

yes i have had a xray and mri and seen a top back surgeon,all a bit unsure as to exactly what is wrong, the pain is not lower back its in the middle around the spine to one side into the ribs and spreads when i stand , no pain at all on waking up in bed just comes on after a few mins and stays there it gets worse for half hour and then thats it discomfort all day,14 weeks of core work must be doing some good, but lots of people recommend acupuncture and i thought i might give it a try

I saw a serious documentary on the BBC exploring its effects. They could show both how and why it works on migraines. I was right impressed.

My GF is chinese but grew up in the west....there's certain stuff she refuses to go to a "western" GP for cos its not as effective as accupuncture.

Joxster - Member
You'll feel a bit of a pr!ck

Is that what you say to all your ladies then? 😀

there's certain stuff she refuses to go to a "western" GP for cos its not as effective as accupuncture.

On what data did she base that decision on then?

It's only worth it if you can find a decent acupuncturist - most the UK ones are pants as they get a week or two training and that makes them qualified. Try and find someone trained in proper Chinese Medicine (I know these things purely as my brother is coming towards the end of proper training in Los Angeles at the mo... where it takes 5 years!)

Apparently there is quite some difference between someone who properly knows what they are doing... and most UK acupuncturists haven't really got that much of a clue 🙁

I do know there is a good one in Kendal though. Probably no use to you mind!

zaskar - Member

Joxster - Member
You'll feel a bit of a pr!ck

Is that what you say to all your ladies then?

You calling me a Pimp?

It's only worth it if you can find a decent acupuncturist

and you know this how? Because your brother is an acupuncturist and told you? Not biased advice then.

[i]On what data did she base that decision on then? [/i]

Thats kinds the point isn't it? There is no data / science behind it. But millions of people will testify that it works. Do we need to know how?

Actually we do know how. Its a combination of the placebo effect and reversion to the mean.

I've been given acupuncture by a physio last year as part of a whole range of treatments to try and clear up some foot problems. He explained it to me in the terms used by Ernie here. Foot pain cleared now, honestly can't say the acupuncture did it because I was having other treatment too. I didn't pay any extra for it though...

I have got a completely torn ACL ligament in my right knee. I didn't go for major reconstructive surgery as (a) it was at the wrong point of my life and I couldn't be off my feet for 6 weeks and (b) was too lazy to go under the knife. I was told to build up hamstring and quads and I wouldn't have any problems. Well about 2 1/2 years later my knee suddenly started locking up and I got some acupuncture. Was brilliant, I didn't have any other treatment and afer maybe 6 weeks it made a huge different.

Mr MC had a back problem and had some acupuncture which wasn't quite so effective however he believes that it is because his problem were to do with bone rather than muscualture however it did help him relax a bit. I think in your situation it's definately worth a go.

Keep us posted on how you get on, would be intruiged to know.

Actually we do know how. Its a combination of the placebo effect and reversion to the mean.

Seconded. Next we'll have homeopaths on here telling us it works, so there!

The only way is with double blind trials. That would show an effect if there was one to be had. It wouldn't say how anything worked but it would show *something*. So far - nowt.

Placebo effect is very strong though, as has been shown with - you guessed it - double blind trials.

Well double blinded trials are very difficult with a physical therapy such as Acupuncture as the person giving the treatment will be able to tell whether or not it is real. The last single blinded trial that I saw showed that any addtional benefit achieved by acupunture was due to the placebo effect as the same benfit was seen whether or not the needles actually punctured. It also did not matter where the needles were placed. A classic placebo response.

And yes I did try it once and you know what, it [b]didn't[/b] work.

most the UK ones are pants as they get a week or two training and that makes them qualified

Actually the NHS is going to start using acupuncture as a recommended treatment for chronic back pain. NICE guidleines are suggesting a bit of a rethink on the whole treatment of back pain.

IMO acupuncture is a very useful tool but not the panacea it is sometimes made out to be. One thing I believe is that it is a treatment not a cure and is very good for chronic pain relief

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/802787.stm

I think the naysayers are saying that if you believe it will work it will. Sounds like a good recommendation to me 😉

Ooppps thought this was a trainer related thread

My Dad had a 'prize' ram that couldn't mount the ewes due to a bad back (probably from too much humping the year before!) Anyway, Race Horse Acupucturist came and did her thing and away he went. I don't think sheep have any understanding of placebo effect. After this my Dad also had acupuncture for bad shoulder (not from same practicioner) and is now a believer.

Animals can get placebo effect as well. they feel better after someone fusses over them

I think the naysayers are saying that if you believe it will work it will. Sounds like a good recommendation to me

Then wouldn't it be better to believe in a more convenient quack remedy like homeopathy? Its non-invasive and swallowing a sugar pill is a lot faster and probably cheaper than lying on a bench having someone stick pins into you.

Had it done to me once. I hated knowing I had 30 needles sticking in my spine, but it definitely helped. I'm not sure there aren't other ways of relieving back pain however.

Aparently, the needles are supposed to target areas of high muscle tension. They are supposed to act as some sort of tension release. I have no idea how it works, but i really don't like the idea of being perforated like a tea bag. I was also worried about hygene and whether or not they had used these needles on someone else. Also whether they might damage a nerve or something.

No thanks! We were not designed to have needles stuck in us!