[Closed] What are we teaching our kids?

Overblown.

But also, the baseline of what merits detention seems to have changed a lot over the years. I think I only ever got them from one teacher ever.

My son gets loads and our default position is incredulity at the trivial nature of the offence,: not having shirt tucked in, forgetting a book etc

They seem to use them a lot more

Seems harsh, but it all does nowadays compared to back in days of yore for us lot. My kids' school is heavily focussed on uniform and equipment compliance. My daughter forgot a book for a lesson and got a detention. Most detentions are for skirt rolling though.

Seems a little excessive for a careless mistake, but what other sanction is available or be appropriate?

Detention for uniform, forgetting stuff etc was around 35 years ago. Never did me any harm.....😎

I wouldn't expect a grown-up to have to deal with such pettiness.

Ignorance is no plee but exceptence of an easy mistake is also for adults. Sounds like teacher took a position and as is common with positions of authority feels unable to back down and now the school has to back their (the teacher's) position.

Depends on the age - if she is yr 7 or 8, then probably unfair. If, however, she is yr 9 + I would say it is reasonable to be punished. After all, she should be working in art class, not scribbling on bits of paper. And why was she doing it on top of someone's work? Was she not at her desk? Did the other student put it there?

Assuming it was entirely an accident/ignorance and your daughter's 'drawing on a scrap of paper with an ink pen' was a legitimate part of the art class, then surely the consequence here (I'm a firm believer in consequences) is an apology.

If on the other hand she was dossing around and her attitude towards participation in the class resulted in this issue, then with the combination it seems fair enough.

If on the other hand she was dossing around

It was art class...

It was art class…

Tory

we aim to treat students in a grown up fashion

That did make me laugh. Try punishing an employee for something so petty and see how long it is before they walk in with the union rep and file a complaint for harrassment. In fact the whole letter is laughable and best ignored - but filed safely away because whoever wrote that is setting themselves up for a fall.

Just ignore the stupid ****ers and tell your daughter that she'll have to deal with arse holes all her life so she may as well get used to dealing with them now. I'm an ex-teacher, most of my colleagues were normal sensible human beings, one or two were certifiable, strangely they seemed to rise to positions of power or aspired to.

Tory

Stalinist!

The school should be telling the wronged student that it will prepare her for a lifetime of other people ****ing up your perfectly good work. As if the corporate world is as petty as that (well, mine isn't). Mark her work down a grade and be done with it.

the punishment fits the crime #Nopudding

It was art class…

Fair point, succinct.

Back in my day detentions were for possession of a knife or drilling through your mates pencil case in woodwork or painting knob on your mates back or attaching crocodile clips to a teacher or filling your mates homework book with pictures of penises or smoking when you should be digging a duck pond or walking the entire cross country route or not bothering coming back from the cross country route or making teachers cry. You know that kind of thing 🤷🏻‍♂️

Back in my day detentions were for possession of a knife or drilling through your mates pencil case in woodwork or painting knob on your mates back or attaching crocodile clips to a teacher or filling your mates homework book with pictures of penises or smoking when you should be digging a duck pond or walking the entire cross country route or not bothering coming back from the cross country route or making teachers cry. You know that kind of thing

Or blowing the exhaust off the head of musics Saab with a large firework.

But nooo, now that'd get you raided by the antiterror police instead of two weeks of detention.

I don't like to accuse but is your daughter being totally honest about what happened, seems a bit strong from the teacher but it's not like children never bend the truth.

Seems unfair for an accident but, from having two kids who have now made their way through primary & most of secondary, we learnt to pick your battles where the school was involved....probably would have passed on this one.

Back in my day detentions were for possession of a knife or drilling through your mates pencil case in woodwork or painting knob on your mates back or attaching crocodile clips to a teacher or filling your mates homework book with pictures of penises or smoking when you should be digging a duck pond or walking the entire cross country route or not bothering coming back from the cross country route or making teachers cry. You know that kind of thing

Thanks for that little bit of lunchtime nostalgia!

Thanks for that little bit of lunchtime nostalgia!

I was thinking more.....

Teachers learn to pick their battles too, Nuke, or most do. When a parent questions a punishment it can be a good opportunity to get them on board whereas the tone and intransigence in that reply is a provocation that turns a potential ally into an adversary.

Back in my day detention was for softies. Making an extra-curricular mark would have gotten the board-rubber thrown at head, or else pulled-up bent-over front of class to get a running-strike from the board-rule.

Detention seems harsh if it was an accident and not a deliberate sabotage of someone else's work. However who knows what rules teachers are playing by these days. In my day I would have had a bollocking off the teacher involving a good shouting at and maybe sit in the corner for the rest of the class. in this day and age maybe shouting at the kids is not allowed as it causes too much upset or loud noises might cause PTSD or something so the only course of action is detention or something like that. I think the child (assuming it was a child) should have been disciplined as they need to be made aware of things like this and made to consider things in future....kids don't always remember or listen to a adult-like conversation pointing out the wrongs of what they did. Young children are wired differently and need to be told as unambiguously as possible.

Tough one without knowing the circumstances. If it were my kid I'd probably let it lie, reinforce the teacher in telling her to be more careful in future. When we hand our kids over to schools we are trusting them and should give them the benefit of the doubt - they are not going to deal with every situation in the same way you would. I know from many friends who are teachers that interfering parents complaining and trying to intervene in everything the teachers do is one of the biggest challenges and de-motivating factors teachers face - especially in front of the kids as it just undermines the authority of the teachers in the kids eyes. If you want that much control over your kids then maybe home school them. Teachers are bound to get it wrong sometimes so sometimes parents just need to bite their lip and leave them to it. Obviously if a consistent pattern of worrying behaviour emerges then speak up, but for one off isolated events best just to leave it.

How much ink do you have to draw on a bit of paper before it seeps through and marks something beneath? (IANAAS) Is the other girl a friend, and what was the work?

I find it really sad that a teacher cant make a judgement on something without a parent wanting to jump in and question their authority. Its a detention. You have made no mention of any other issues such as bullying etc. In the grand scheme of things it is nothing. Your daughter did something wrong which upset a fellow student and spoiled her work and you have no knowledge of her behaviour at the time, the day before or maybe even over a period of time. Even if it is a little heavy handed. A lesson to your daughter that sometimes there are consequences to actions isn't the worst lesson to learn. Let your daughter learn her lesson and stop undermining the teacher is my advice.

After all, she should be working in art class, not scribbling on bits of paper.

3/10 could troll better.

What are we teaching our kids?

That actions have consequences. Sometimes unintended and unpleasant ones.

Stalinist!

Someone has to paint the tractors

Let your daughter learn her lesson and stop undermining the teacher is my advice

Authority should always be questioned. There is no authority if you have to rely on "I'm the boss" type arguments.

That actions have consequences. Sometimes unintended and unpleasant ones

Disproportionate ones, at that, too.

Get her to blow up a tin of paint in the Rural Studies class - (they have Rural Studies class, right?) and see what punishment she gets - seems like a full, conventional "shock and awe" strike might be on the cards. Maybe limited nuclear if it's not magnolia or puce...

Authority should always be questioned. There is no authority if you have to rely on “I’m the boss” type arguments.

That's just bobbins. Question it if you feel it's justified, but not as a default.

Authority should always be questioned. There is no authority if you have to rely on “I’m the boss” type arguments.

Rubbish. I deleted everything else I was about to post because...

Question it if you feel it’s justified, but not as a default.

Let your daughter learn her lesson and stop undermining the teacher is my advice.

The lesson is that some teachers are exceptionally petty and there's not much you can do about it.

The lesson is that some teachers are exceptionally petty and there’s not much you can do about it.

I think the lesson is that we shouldn't be judgemental based on a snapshot of events - if we weren't there, how can we say someone's being petty? This isn't a slight on Trailwagger's daughter, you understand - two people can witness the same event and have entirely different interpretations of it.

I don't think it's an ideal course of action, if the kid's version of events is true.

But

If a particular teacher made that judgement call at that particular time, you cannot conclude that we, as a society, are teaching all our kids a particular set of values. There's more than just one kid and more than one teacher. And the teachers do not all speak for each other.

wait a minute I thought that kids had never had it so easy?

(sounds overblown by the teacher to me, also, why was the other pupils art left out)

I cant see the teacher backing down tho, Id just roll with it, the lesson here is that sometimes life isnt fair

and detention isnt all bad

That’s just bobbins. Question it if you feel it’s justified, but not as a default

If you can't justify yourself to a satisfactory level you have no authority.

The issue is, what one person considers satisfactory another won't. Especially when someone's kids are involved.

Also, sometimes things are not ok, even if you don't mean to do them. See 'driving without due care and attention' in the law books.

Sounds reasonable to me if the other students work was coursework (even if not). A detention isn't exactly end of the world, it's just time after all that can be spent doing homework etc, maybe she'll be more careful around other students work next time....

Detentions seem to be the only authority teachers are left with nowdays.

Depends on the age – if she is yr 7 or 8, then probably unfair. If, however, she is yr 9 + I would say it is reasonable to be punished. After all, she should be working in art class, not scribbling on bits of paper. And why was she doing it on top of someone’s work? Was she not at her desk? Did the other student put it there?

This. ☝ Too many unknown variables. "But dad, I was only... so unfair... !"

This made me laugh though:

we must remember ‘ignorance is no plea’.”

If ignorance was no plea they wouldn't need to be in bloody school learning things. Its a child in an art class not The Accused in a court of law.

also, why was the other pupils art left out

But we don't know the full story - was it left out? Or had the OPs daughter gone over to the other student's desk and started drawing on top of the work? Or had she taken the work from the other student's desk altogether?

Fondly remembers starting a thread over 10 years ago, with my son being accused of racism by his primary school teacher. Wonderful times 😀

Also, sometimes things are not ok, even if you don’t mean to do them. See ‘driving without due care and attention’ in the law books.

A common prosecution amongst schoolchildren.

I think the lesson is that we shouldn’t be judgemental based on a snapshot of events – if we weren’t there, how can we say someone’s being petty?

True, but the school's response didn't seem to contradict her account of what happened.

True, but the school’s response didn’t seem to contradict her account of what happened.

Perhaps they were trying to stop it escalating into a 'they said/she said' argument.

I once got detention for drawing on the front of a schoolbook despite the teacher doing it (the whole class saw her do it as she was marking the work). But I couldn't argue it - she just denied it and gave me detention. She was mad as a box of frogs and was eventually dismissed for apparently doing some French polishing in a store cupboard with a 6th former.