[Closed] Well it went a bit quiet in here when I watched this...

I'm well aware of the risks I take every time I hit the starter button and head out for a ride

Are you aware of the risks you force other people to take? You can still kill someone on a motorbike, and you can sure as hell traumatise someone.

Please don't kill me, for the sake of my kids. I do try but I will be making a mistake at some point in the future. I and my family would appreciate it if you didn't punish me by death.

97mph approaching a junction is unacceptable.

Not judging the speed of an approaching vehicle travelling at 97mph is unacceptable.

You must allow for mistakes as much as possible. Both those of yourself and others.

His mother is very brave, and I'm glad she released this video.

I read all the posts then watched it.

The roads are full of not very good drivers, people making mistakes, difficult junctions, people who've had a bad day, idiots who are texting or eating or arguing with a partner or child. We might be some of them.

I know of too many people, including a police motorcyclist, who have died because either they ran out of skill, or luck, or forgot others had less skill.

The road markings were very clear. All the red surface and lines should have made it clear to both that this was a danger zone. The car driver made a bad mistake. The motorcyclist's speed, and simple physics and energy made sure he paid for it by dying.

The macho stupidity of some of those on here, who have posted similarly before, that 60% faster than the speed limit through a junction on a single carriageway road is ok, beggars belief. They obviously don't care about getting to see their kids again. And I have seen totally innocent car drivers whose lives have been damaged severely by being hit by motorcyclists doing stupid things. It isn't just your own health you risk.

The roads are full of idiots. If you are skilful and clever, use those skills to avoid them.

Weeksy , do you really want "he died defending his right of way" to be the epitaph your kids see on your gravestone?

But we need to move away from the basic simplistic "Speed kills" rubbish!

No, it's inappropriate speed that kills.

It's quite possible to ride or drive safely at well over the posted limit (which is just an arbitrary number afterall). And by the same token, it is often necessary to ride or drive at well under the posted limit.

The issue with the "slow down" don't exceed the limit suggestion is that is removes a critical decision making process from the driver, that of proceeding at an APPROPRIATE speed.

The busier, the roads become, the less attention riders and drivers pay to their surroundings, and the more people just "drive by numbers" the more common exactly this kind of accident is going to become. Luckily, thanks to modern cars, these sorts of accidents are now often survivable, but unfortunately that doesn't apply to pedestrians, pedal and motor cyclists......

weeksy - Member

Before we get too deep and someone asks, yes, I've lost someone close in almost the exact same scenario as the bid, but the car was doing a u turn. She was a good friend. I've also lost other bike mates in accidents. I've crashed a few times, well,lots, but mostly on track.

Grib 🙁

rocketman - Member

[i]100mph on that road on a modern bike is normally fine[/i]

Eh? Tell me you're not serious. To me it looks like suicidal riding. Way too fast, way too much going on, so many things that could (and did) go wrong.

100% commitment by the rider no plan B even less a plan C. How could anyone approach a junction at that speed and expect everyone else to do the right thing?

Sad but some people just aren't cut out to ride motorbikes

So you read that far and no further - well done 🙄

The issue with the "slow down" don't exceed the limit suggestion is that is removes a critical decision making process from the driver, that of proceeding at an APPROPRIATE speed.

No, the speed limit is a maximum speed allowed, that is all it is.

anyone who does not have the sense to drive according to the traffic/weather/road conditions etc should not be allowed on the road.

Not trying to start a fight on a sad subject but... Really, how? He felt fast- don't know what the limit is and it's hard to judge in a video- but the car pulled right in front of him. Speed worsened it but the driver caused it.

Any sane motorcyclist will tell you that you don't blast through a junction at 97 mph. You slow down because this sort of shit happens. If he'd been doing 50 through the junction, he'd have hit that car in the mid 40s instead of 90 odd.

[img] [/img]

The thinking time part is really important. I was also going to post the Kiwi "Making Mistakes" vid as it really sums it up. Both would have done something different if they had a second chance.
Modern technology has made vehicles that can easily leave speed limits behind and be handled safely at those speeds on a track. With other people around, other road users and the one piloting the vehicle it's still not safe. Non of those drivers, riders and pedestrians have had the same upgrades as the cars and bikes. There are no ABS style upgrade for reactions, no traction control for the brain.

I hope that those who think that 100mph is a safe speed are removed from the road and have their licenses shredded. Regardless of how good you are or think you are you have little or no control over everybody else.

Pretty brutal watch. I worked out the difference in kinetic energy of the rider and bike with fuel assuming 250kg. 115,111 Joles at 60mph, 307,110 Joules at 98mph so 2.7x more energy to convert to heat by the brakes/to slam into the car.

i know the rider was going fast but i think he would have been visible and driver should be aware motorbikes can shift. I can completely understand the accident as it looked like the car was waiting at the junction until the bike was close. Sorry but i think that car is at fault and didn't see the bike at all. Car didn't hit the brake or put their foot down. Had drivers do this when I am on my cycle doing only 20mph. imho

Weeksy , do you really want "he died defending his right of way" to be the epitaph your kids see on your gravestone?

Really, what a ridiculous question. Of course I don't. But one day it will say something on there.

"He died after a massive stroke"
"He died at BPW trying that double"
"he died as he wanted to be remembered"

Or some other similar rubbish.

Non bikers don't often realise that 100mph on a bike is SO SO different to 100mph in a car. Getting to 100mph on a Superbike is a mere fraction from 60mph in 3rd gear, it's the blink of an eye almost. Getting back down from 100mph is not far off that too. The handling of a bike at 100mph is also very different to a car (most cars anyway), the bike can turn, handle, steer and manouver, the cars are less able to do so.

The only thing that doesn't change of course is the human factor, seeing, spotting and reacting.

I think it is important motorbike riders mostly leave their lights on too.

Non bikers don't often realise that 100mph on a bike is SO SO different to 100mph in a car. Getting to 100mph on a Superbike is a mere fraction from 60mph in 3rd gear, it's the blink of an eye almost. Getting back down from 100mph is not far off that too.

Non bikers don't often realise that 100mph on a bike is SO SO different to 100mph in a car. Getting to 100mph on a Superbike is a mere fraction from 60mph in 3rd gear, it's the blink of an eye almost. Getting back down from 100mph is not far off that too. The handling of a bike at 100mph is also very different to a car (most cars anyway), the bike can turn, handle, steer and manouver, the cars are less able to do so.

The only thing that doesn't change of course is the human factor, seeing, spotting and reacting.

You missed out 'allowing for the unexpected bad decisions of other road users' in the human factor bit.

Want to ride at 100mph go to a track. Want to ride on the road ride within the limit.

Yeah because it's only bikers that speed. I must be imagining all the cars that do 45-50 through my village, or the cars that overtake me on the motorway when doing 70mph.

No, it's inappropriate speed that kills.

That's what the slogan really means - I think people understand that.

The issue with the "slow down" don't exceed the limit suggestion is that is removes a critical decision making process from the driver

That is total and utter bullshit. The idea that anyone is going to abdicate all responsibility and only ever drive the speed limit is just ridiculous. Most drivers slow down when they see hazards, I see it all the time when driving. The issue is that they tend to speed up when they THINK there aren't any hazards - but they often don't see them (like in this vid). So you keep your speed in check just in case, because a reasonable speed everything is more avoidable and more survivable.

I can't believe I'm having to explain this to someone with a driving license, and it depresses me.

I also can't believe weeksy is defending his driving when he's already admitted to having had lots of accidents.

I think everyone who's mentioned speed as a factor has missed a point, and they've certainly missed the message - the driver didn't pull out because he misjudged the rider's speed, he pulled out because he didn't see him (and reportedly didn't see the car the rider was overtaking, either). So a legal 60 would have been just as fatal as 97 - and none of this "he could have taken evasive action at a lower speed", even at 60 he wouldn't have stopped or been able to miss the car if the timing had been as horribly wrong as it was in the video. Not condoning speeding (I'm dead against it) but you're doing his brave, brave mum a terrible disservice to be judgemental about it.

I cried too, definitely the shout that does it - that horrible moment when he knew the crash was coming and there's nothing he can do. 🙁

I also can't believe weeksy is defending his driving when he's already admitted to having had lots of accidents

I've had loads of accidents yes. I've had 2 on the road.

1 Driver pulled out of a 1 way street, that was the WRONG way... it was 1 way the other direction...
2. I wasn't observant... my mistake.

Both of these were 10+ years ago.

The rest of the accidents have been on track trying to set my best lap times or in races. I class these are perfectly acceptable.

Yeah because it's only bikers that speed. I must be imagining all the cars that do 45-50 through my village, or the cars that overtake me on the motorway when doing 70mph.

So that means it's ok to do 100mph+ on a motorbike then? Good luck with that and I hope you don't take anyone else out with you with while selfishly using the roads as your playground.

Tragic accident.

Both parties at fault, however the biker would still be alive if he wasn't speeding.

Good luck with that and I hope you don't take anyone else out with you with while selfishly using the roads as your playground.

Why am I going to take myself or anyone else out ? HAve a word with yourself, seriously.

I'm sitting here with blokes who selfishly throw themselves down mountains, through trees, over jumps etc and yet somehow I'm the one who's selfishly having fun and putting myself at risk LOL. I'm the one who's going to be selfish and leave my child all alone in the world, but the MTBers here go down black runs in the Alps not really knowing what the next stone or rock.

I won't even get into the commuters who are risking their lives every minute of their rides.

Comical.

Both parties at fault, however the biker would still be alive if he wasn't speeding.

Maybe.. or maybe he'd have hit someone 10 mins earlier who he missed as he was 15s further in his journey... or maybe he'd have got home earlier and slipped in the bath ... who knows... maybe it was just his day/time and that's the end of it. Speed was a factor in his death... however, not the only factor.

I think it is important motorbike riders mostly leave their lights on too.

As I've already stated, bikes have had their lights hard wired on for many years now. There's not even a switch to turn them off. It was a voluntary action agreed between all the motorcycle manufacturers. My wife's 2002 bike had the lights hard wired on, put it that way.

Why am I going to take myself or anyone else out ? HAve a word with yourself, seriously

Would the motor cyclist have been prosecuted if he'd survived?

I don't know why it's such a problem to stick to the speed limit. It would be a decent starting point.

Maybe.. or maybe he'd have hit someone 10 mins earlier who he missed as he was 15s further in his journey... or maybe he'd have got home earlier and slipped in the bath ... who knows... maybe it was just his day/time and that's the end of it. Speed was a factor in his death... however, not the only factor.

No "maybe not" about it. Speed was the primary contributing factor in his death unfortunately.

I'm sitting here with blokes who selfishly throw themselves down mountains, through trees, over jumps etc and yet somehow I'm the one who's selfishly having fun and putting myself at risk LOL.

1) You're putting OTHERS at risk

2) You're far less likely to die MTBing that hooning around on a motorbike. Surely you cannot argue with that?

1) You're putting OTHERS at risk

2) You're far less likely to die MTBing that hooning around on a motorbike. Surely you cannot argue with that?

1. In your opinion

2. Hmmmmm. Far less... I'd argue, some less.. not far less. But like I say, people die of MANY things, very small percentages are motorbike related. Whilst you arguably have a point here.. it's not THAT many people who die on motorbikes...

Edit : For discussion, I think we've seen 3-4 people who have died here in the last year when cycling ? (OK, not necessarily cycling related). This year on the motorbiking equivalent we've had none.

We've arguably had less broken bone injuries on the Motorbike forum too (apart from Trackdaysriders forum, but they're all nutty fast track gods)

Indeed. If people want to kill themselves by racing about at 100mph, that's their decision - but doing it where they could easily injure or kill others is criminally dangerous.

1) You're putting OTHERS at risk

2) You're far less likely to die MTBing that hooning around on a motorbike. Surely you cannot argue with that?

1. In your opinion

2. Hmmmmm. Far less... I'd argue, some less.. not far less. But like I say, people die of MANY things, very small percentages are motorbike related. Whilst you arguably have a point here.. it's not THAT many people who die on motorbikes...

In everyones opinion. If you are speeding / riding without due care or attention on a public highway you are automatically putting other people at risk.

Motorcyclists are roughly 38 times more likely to be killed in a road traffic accident than car occupants, per mile ridden

30 motorcyclists are killed or injured every day at junctions

Not "very small" numbers.

Also - you're not just killing yourself, you're killing someone's son or daughter, or someone's father, or someone's best friend etc. Your own kids' father, even worse.

etc and yet somehow I'm the one who's selfishly having fun and putting myself at risk LOL

They are not breaking the law and taking anyone else with them though, that's the massive difference your self cantered view doesn't allow you to see,
I know too many people whose lives have been ended or changed for the worse by the actions of people like you who think the road is their personal playground.

Can't you take up an extreme sport where it's only your neck you break or save the heroics for the track.

weeksy;

[i]
30 motorcyclists are killed or injured every day at junctions

Motorcyclists are roughly 38 times more likely to be killed in a road traffic accident than car occupants, per mile ridden

In 2013, 331 motorcyclists died and 4,866 were seriously injured in road collisions in Great Britain. [/i]

from [url= http://think.direct.gov.uk/motorcycles.html ]http://think.direct.gov.uk/motorcycles.html[/url]

Also - you're not just killing yourself, you're killing someone's son or daughter, or someone's father, or someone's best friend etc. Your own kids' father, even worse.

Dude, keep a grip on reality... I'm not hooning at 140mph towards oncoming traffic in the wrong like like a Fast and Furious movie... I'm riding faster than some(most) of you deem appropriate at times, but completely within myself. I'm not setting out with a warrior cry and praying to the gods I make it back safely mostly using pure luck.

I'm just an average bloke going out to see some buddies.

This is the real sad state of a lot of peoples mindsets on the roads today, both motorcyclists and car drivers. It's completely selfish and wreckless

How do you selfishly throw yourself down a mountain?

Can't you take up an extreme sport where it's only your neck you break or save the heroics for the track.

Riding to a mates house and doing 100mph isn't 'heroics'.

Is BPW an extreme sport ? Did you miss the part where most of my riding is on track ?

1. In your opinion

No?! Drivers do get killed by motorcycles, I'm fairly sure.

I'd argue, some less.. not far less.

From a previous STW thread: http://journals.lww.com/jtrauma/Abstract/2006/02000/Mountain_Biking_Injuries_Requiring_Trauma_Center.10.aspx

One death in ten years in Vancouver, a pretty big MTB hotspot. In the UK in 2011 there were 362 motorcyclists killed. Hmm...

Very brave of his family to share the video. And idiot car driver not seeing the motorcyclist but a one travelling at 97mph would come very quick, speed would be a massive factor in his fatal injuries. I'm pretty sure his family intend the warning to be for both car drivers and motorcyclists.

How do you selfishly throw yourself down a mountain?

Because it has no purpose, it has no function, apart from fullfiling a selfish need for enjoyment. IT's 100% a selfish thing to do. You could crash and injure yourself as MANY on here do time and time again, not because you were commuting to work etc, but because YOU wanted fun.

Edit : For discussion, I think we've seen 3-4 people who have died here in the last year when cycling ? (OK, not necessarily cycling related). This year on the motorbiking equivalent we've had none.

I'm riding faster than [s]some(most)[/s] is suitable for public roads [s]of you deem[/s] that is completely inappropriate at all times, but completely within myself(in my selfish opinion).

FTFY