[Closed] Well it went a bit quiet in here when I watched this...

A mate of mine pulled out into the path of an oncoming van a couple of years ago which got him side on. He just can't understand how he never saw it coming

A mate of mine turned right across an oncoming car and they hit. He has no idea how it happened either. It happens.

Not as insane as I used to be

Thank god.........

Fwiw I think the video is pointless.most drivers are rubbish, this won't improve them

but I don't think that you have said that this rider was rubbish either, only that the driver was at fault?

As pointed out you can clearly see that car in the centre of the road for quite a time, so it is pretty obvious what he is going to do, and he might have had time to do it if the rider hadn't been riding so fast.

I never once said the driver was at fault fella. IMO I don't think either person was at fault, it was, just one of them things.

Both people would have learned something from the incident had they both survived, but how much is open to debate.

I've been involved in worse incidents, but was very very lucky. Coming over a crest at 150mph being faced with a car turning, 99 times out of 100 he'd have killed me, but for whatever reason he saw me, I went past him on the wrong side of the road almost in the gutter.
That never slowed me down, none of the near misses or accidents ever did. I just grew up a bit.

That never slowed me down, none of the near misses or accidents ever did

Self centered much?

Watched this earlier and it shook me up a bit. 100% the driver's fault IMO.

However - on my road bike, approaching a junction like that, I'll be slowing down until I can be 100% sure that the car waiting to turn has seen me - with eye contact if possible. I know a motorbike is faster, but the same principal applies - if you're going to boot it at near on 100mph, you need to be cautious at junctions like that - he was not cautious.

The mother is right - motorcyclists need to be aware, and car drivers do as well (the fact that the driver said they hadn't seen the car behind him either is also concerning).

For those that can't understand how you miss seeing a bike coming straight at you.

I've done similar and saw the bike at the last moment. You're sat in a queue of traffic in the filter lane waiting for your turn to cross the oncoming traffic. You get to the front, it's your turn. You're looking far down the road at oncoming traffic, waiting for a gap. You see one, and you think 'after that next car, I can go'. And after the next car, you go. Because the 'last' thing you expect is for someone to be overtaking into that gap and into a junction, let alone at close on 100mph.

Like I say, I caught the bike coming towards me at a reduced speed (but still overtaking in a stupid place). And because I stopped, and because he was going at a speed that enabled him to manoeuvre - in real terms it wasn't even close. But change one or two aspects and that would have been me. Aspects that were in the motorbiker's control, ie. not overtaking into a dangerous area, and not doing it at that speed.

We had a similar discussion a couple of weeks ago where someone's wife had been knocked off her bike in a similar situation. A few people were shouted down for suggesting that she needs to assess her riding to see what she could have done differently. Now, different to this case was that she was within speed limits and riding along a road not doing anything wrong. But the message is the same, we're very vulnerable whether we're in the right or not, and we have to ride in a way that manages that vulnerability as best we can.

PeterPoddy - Member
I wish I hadn't watched that vid. It's quite upsetting because, to me, it's very very real. Very very familiar, even though that's never happened to me.

^^ Took the words out of my mouth. I've seen a few vids like this but this one has got to me; strangely familiar in an odd / weird way and I can almost 'feel' what he went through. Fair play to the mum, and RIP David

Self centred,hmmmmm

Sanctimonious much?

I wonder why I bother being open and honest here sometimes, next time I'll just write

'Oh yeah, that was terrible'

Far easier that way.

Weeksy, you're saying that car drivers are rubbish, but then freely admitting to making appalling choices yourself?

Surely there is more to being a good rider than simply making it home alive at speeds which are inappropriate for a public road?

I'm genuinely curious btw, not trying to be sanctimonious, the fast rider mindset intrigues me

Sanctimonious much?

Nah, just seeing right through someone trying to justify riding like a **** as anything other than a purely selfish act.

Children, let's not be snippy.

Children, let's not be snippy.

...and patronising. Let us also not be patronising 8)

Driver at fault, no doubt, but rider riding in a stupid and reckless way.

End of the day roads are dangerous, and he was going too fast to be able manoeuvre. Speed isn't just a cause or reason for blame, it's also time in instances like this, to react.

Peter,
As stated,I'm not the rider I once was in that context. I still ride was many on here would call insane speeds and inappropriately but in my perception they're completely safe and within my comfort zone. I doubt many would think my riding is good, I think its safe though (mostly)

My comments of drivers being rubbish is a generalisation based upon the driving I see every day out there.

...and patronising. Let us also not be patronising

Well, I was trying to be gentle and irreverent. I can get the hammer if you'd prefer?

(-:

A quote from someone on pistonheads:

Driving/riding too fast is like masturbation; great fun for yourself but no-one else needs to see it.

Well, I was trying to be gentle and irreverent. I can get the hammer if you'd prefer?

You know I will always vote for the hammer...

[img] [/img]

Very distressing and horrible for everyone involved . A great deal of respect to the parents for trying to to do whatever they so that it doesn't happen to someone else.

+1.

I think its safe though

Don't we all?

I wonder if the guy in the vid thought he was safe?

I don't drive over 75mph generally...

I do ride a motorbike over that though. Like I said, for the road, the conditions, the traffic, I thought his speed was reasonable.

Ask yourself this, if the bike is a 1300cc Japanese bike with 150+BHP and a top speed of close to 180mph, do you think the rider really bought it to do 70mph everywhere ? Simple answer, bikers buy big fast bikes to do big fast speeds. That speed was IMO well within 'cruising' speed for an experienced biker on a big Japanese sports tourer.

weeksy... uuuhm so? My car says it does 160mph.. Did i buy it to do 70mph everywhere? Well the law states various speeds on the roads for a reason..

this video shows a fair hint as to why excessive speed is dangerous..

I do ride a motorbike over that though. Like I said, for the road, the conditions, the traffic, I thought his speed was reasonable.

Personally, I slow down in the [i]car[/i] when passing junctions, having had people pull right out in front of me before. On a bike I think that was well excessive in that traffic. Definitely two sides to this one.

Sobering film though.

I didn't watch the video, and I'm not going to get into an argument about the rights and wrongs. As far as drivers not seeing, I've approached a side turning at the bottom of my road, which is slightly downhill, at a reasonable speed on my mountain bike, with a car sitting waiting to pull out from my right to go in the same direction. The driver has looked me straight in the eye, waited until I was practically level with him, then pulled out alongside me, so close I slammed my hand on his roof! I was barely a metre out from the kerb, and my bars were almost touching the car. Now, was that due to the driver looking, but actually not really 'seeing' the approaching bike? I would have been doing perhaps 12-15mph at that point, but I have actually overtaken a car at that exact point at 32mph, if that driver had pulled out then I'd have stood no chance, and neither would someone on a motorbike doing 30mph.

It's his cry before impact, knowing there is nothing he can do about it, that has got me.

That video is the reason I no longer ride a motorbike. Absolutely haunting.

Now, was that due to the driver looking, but actually not really 'seeing' the approaching bike?

Probably - it happens.

Bullheart plus 1.

Not ashamed to say I am crying after watching that. The quiet dignity of his mum, her lack of willingness to point the finger and his shout...

I'm not interested in the rights or wrongs of the situation or debating them. I'm just so sorry for the people involved in that and other similar accidents.

Please let's all be more careful...

Jay

Edit: not against people debating it - just don't have the heart for it today. Hope I've not offended.

I read this whole thread before watching the Video, I live not far from where this happened....
It is a horrendous junction and there is probably an accident there of some description once a month.

Up to the point I watched the video (and in some respects it still stands) I was in the same camp as Weeksy.
I`m a biker (Though currently bikeless) and 100mph on that road on a modern bike is normally fine

Ok its not a very PC view, but I kind of know where Weeksy is coming from and I`d be doing the same.

Having watched the video, the rider never gave himself a chance.....

Its a shame as Norfolk police run a very good (And realistic for the kind of riding that they see up here) safe rider course, which is all about Hazard perception, anticipation etc.

It was clear that he had never taken it.

he was a local, the road is well known, there was just too much going on at that junction for him not to roll off (I`d have slowed) change position etc.

It looked to me like he was still back in the overtake mentally and hadn't caught up, If (and I`m not sure)he saw the car waiting, he did nothing to react to it until it moved, and by then it was too late.

Basically he had no capacity to process all of the information at the speed he was travelling.
(I`d be very surprised if he had been able to give a running commentary on that road at that speed on that day - and that's always a marker for me of appropriate speed, if your commentary cant keep up, your brain is not processing the information as fast as its appearing - therefore slow down)

Very sad, very avoidable, 2 families lives changed forever.
Rest in Peace and godspeed David 😥

I work in Road Safety. We work with a number of victims who have lost limbs, lost sons daughters, husbands etc.

Brave people who we take around the county talking to groups of new drivers, the military, companies with lots of drivers etc.

One of things I always try to emphasis is that we all make mistakes in life and one of the biggest issues is that we are only human.

Why didn't the driver see the bike, this may be the reason
http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/raf-pilot-teach-cyclists/

Was it the drivers fault? was the biker going too fast? was it a combination of things?

1) The car driver was travelling in a line of traffic and very probably did not see the biker until he pulled into the centre of the road to turn right.

2) It's pretty difficult to judge the speed of something heading straight for you when it's going that fast and in light of this the driver could reasonably have expected the bikes speed to be about 60.

3) IF the bike had been going 60 it would have been about 120' further back than it actually was after those 4 seconds - in which case the bike would have passed behind the turning car. But he wasn't doing 60 he was doing well over 90 [around other vehicles] which in this scenario is completely irresponsible.

4) If in doubt [drivers] - wait.

5) If a dog/fox/badger/deer had run out in front the the bike the result would have been the same - who would Weeksy be blaming then?

3. If he'd taken 4 s longer to pull his zip up he would have been in the same place and potentially still killed.

I'm not into blame, but to be honest, the video barely registered an emotion in me. Not sure what that says about me, or you lot.

Before we get too deep and someone asks, yes, I've lost someone close in almost the exact same scenario as the bid, but the car was doing a u turn. She was a good friend. I've also lost other bike mates in accidents. I've crashed a few times, well,lots, but mostly on track.

Having just passed my bike test on Monday it does make me think!

Life is so fragile, only takes a moment of stupidity and it's the people around you who live with it.

3. If he'd taken 4 s longer to pull his zip up he would have been in the same place and potentially still killed.

I'm not into blame, but to be honest, the video barely registered an emotion in me. Not sure what that says about me, or you lot.

Weeksy, would you say that accidents like that are just part and parcel of riding?

One of the few things I try put to the back of my head when climbing (especially in winter) is that even if you do everything perfectly, things can still go wrong (holds pulling off, rockfall, avalanche). It's just part of the risk of the sport - you can't control some things, so you just accept them and control those that you can.

Would you say that a driver making a bad move that you couldn't avoid was an accident that shouldn't have happened, or just your luck running out?

My uncle was almost decapitated when he slid under a car many years ago (survived, but with some pretty significant damage). He's never been on the road on a bike since, but has another 20+ years of riding at tracks. He looks back at when he used to ride quick on the road as just being a big gamble, which he didn't really fully appreciate at the time.

I've got to say, I struggled to get emotional about the video, I just associate riding fast on roads with accidents like that (probably thanks to campaigns like that!) and I'm not very good with empathy anyway. Sad anyway though. I'm also just frustrated that I always see things like this whenever I look at getting a bike licence! Maybe I'm just finding reasons not to get one?

sharkbait - Member

2) It's pretty difficult to judge the speed of something heading straight for you when it's going that fast and in light of this the driver could reasonably have expected the bikes speed to be about 60.

In which case, he still shouldn't have pulled out- the bike would have arrived a second or two later, the gap is still far too small.

But that's beside the point since the driver didn't misjudge the speed or the gap, he failed to see the bike (and the car). And speed doesn't change that, because he would have failed to see the bike at 90 or 60, and would have still pulled in front of it due to his inadequate observation. And the bike would have still had very little chance of avoiding the car. The only differences are that possibly the car would have cleared the junction and it might have become a near miss instead (though the evidence suggests he'd have panicked and hit the brakes when he realised he'd pulled into traffic). And of course, if a collision had happened at lower speed the rider's chances would have been better (though still very bad)

The morals of the story are, look where you're going or you'll kill someone. Also that you should drive/ride on the basis that there are people on the road who're not looking, because when you're dead you don't care whose fault it was, and because you can make yourself safer even when other people are making you less safe.

Not sure what that says about me

Probably just that you have been in similar position and are not shocked by it.

Most of the people on here will have more experience and sharper skills in dealing with risk. It is good to be reminded that some who drive don't have the same reflexes and you don't know where these people are on the road.

100mph on that road on a modern bike is normally fine

100% commitment by the rider no plan B even less a plan C. How could anyone approach a junction at that speed and expect everyone else to do the right thing?

Sad but some people just aren't cut out to ride motorbikes

Lots of questions Peter.

I'm not sure I know the answers though sorry.

Part and parcel in the same way as heart attacks, cancer etc, yes I guess so.

I guess reading guy martins book recently gave me cause for thought as much as this video, he was saying how selfish he is,but that he never feels fear on the bike.
I can relate in the fact that my life goal was to race the Manx/TT. Sadly I wasn't good enough and after 3 years of injury enforced on off racing, I called it a day.

Where the selfish part in one comes in, is that if I could, I'd race the island tomorrow. Despite it being selfish and having a 6 year old.

I've kind of lost where imgoiing with this now and don't want to come over like more of a tosser than most of STW now thinks, so going to bed to watch the Vuelta

I learned to ride a motorbike down that road. It was the first place I rode after passing my test and I ride up and down it probably once a fortnight or so.

That video has had a bit of an effect. 😐

Rachel

slow down everyone you're driving too fast!

been said before but never hurts to repeat it, it may make a difference to someone one day

slow down,
expect other road users to make mistakes
be ready to brake when you are approaching any type of hazzard.
I used to just rest a finger on the brake around traffic/side roads etc.

nobody is such a skilled rider/driver that they cannot improve

stay safe people, please keep racing on the track where it belongs 🙂

I'm with who ever mentioned commentary up there.

I'm a biker and love going quick. Quite often head to the alps to ride, but watching that had me panicking at the speed he was riding. Partly because I knew there was a crash coming, but mostly because my brain couldn't keep up. The fish eye lens might have something to do with it, but for me I couldn't ride that speed on the road where there's traffic moving at 90 and 180 degrees to me. On a track, yes, but on an open road that's way too fast.

The fact still stands though, the driver pulled out on a vehicle. You only have to be unobservant or distracted once.

What a sad state of affairs and what a brave Mum.

Ridden motorbikes for well over 30 years and hate to say it but the video didn't effect me that much.

I'm well aware of the risks I take every time I hit the starter button and head out for a ride.

I ride fast (very fast, my current bike has 160bhp at the rear wheel) when I deem it safe / appropriate to do so. I have a wife and two daughters so my passion for motorbikes / speed is always tempered with the need to get home in one piece.

Though the driver was at fault in that video, as a vulnerable 2 wheeled road user the onus is in you to anticipate crap driving ( as best you can) and stay alive. I regularly ride well into 3 figures mph on the road, but NEVER approaching a junction or any scenario where I judge the risk too great to do so (laybys, farm entrances, car parks etc).

Very sad, and RIP rider, but in 95% of bike accidents the rider (I'm including cyclists here) has some share of the responsibility (even if a tiny %).

I love riding bikes. I love staying alive.

Reading the intensity of this debate and seeing how many posts it's got in a short space of time, I hope this video goes viral - then it'll do it's job and the mother's decision to do it won't have been in vain...

I've watched the video a few times and yeah the bike was going way too fast but that driver simply didn't see him properly.

I don't like motorbikes but it seems the silver car he overtook had moved a bit to the nearside and he actually waved a thank you to it about 2 seconds before impact with the Clio so I'm just thinking he was concentrating on that and not the junction.

The video didn't bother me, but the links posted earlier in this thread which show the Clio with no front end on shocked me that a motorbike and rider could do that much damage. If the bike had been slower, he would have been able to brake or he would have gone behind the Clio.

TBH Im more shocked by the attitude of the speed cocks who feel the law doesn't really apply to them and the 180mph motorbike apologists on STW than the video.

An erstwhile member of this site used to boast about riding his motorbike at "speeds that would make your eyes bleed". My opinion of that was that he was a cock for doing so.

97mph? FFS!

Yes, it's a shame and all that, but.....