[Closed] Well done Wikileaks

It's a terrible thing that went on but...

Forget the contents - someone leaked SECRET documents. I'm sorry, but no matter what the contents, that is wrong and there is no excuse. Find them and punish them to the full extent of the law.

Rachel

If they're exposing lies and it's in the public interest I can't see a problem with it

why are they secret? To protect the guilty?

If it puts US troops at risk so be it

And do the leakers KNOW that they are not revealing other, possibly much more dangerous to OUR troops, information within the documents? No - they couldn't possibly KNOW that in 400000 documents what looks like innocuous information can be pieced together with other innocuous information in other documents to create real information used to the advantage of people blowing up your neighbours.

There is no excuse.

with the last lot of leaks the pentagon claimed the exact same thing
that it might endanger specific individuals involved

afaik it hasnt resulted in any such thing

its just the standard military smokescreen to cover up the stuff they are ashamed of

once again ill post this has been an excellent series, not sure if its available on iplayer still........
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00v3qt5
propoganda or lies does it make a difference?

afaik it hasnt resulted in any such thing

I'm with the op. The guilty should never be protected.
If they're man enough to do the crimes, then they need to be man enough to do the time

If these things keep getting covered up, then it will never stop

Of course the first lot of leaks a few weeks ago proved very useful to the US Government in justifying its war efforts in Afghanistan and ****stan, and in maintaining the myth that Bin Laden is alive, and now these leaks support the view that Iran has been aiding Iraq. I would not be surprised if the financial backers of Wikileaks turn out to be those who actually benefit ultimately from these limited hang outs.

Well done Wikileaks for exposing American lies and mistreatment of Iraqis

i dont have a problem with whistle blowers in general

Just with rolling my R's 😆

Last week or so the BBC showed 2 films about what was going on in Irag, one about the insurgents and one about all things in general and it was shown on there that the US knew all about the torture by the Iraqi police etc and just let it happen! It really was mind boggling to watch. If you get chance use BBC iplayer to watch them.

Hadge, I think they're the ones in kimbers' links. Very good too. Would recommend them to anyone.

"If it puts US troops at risk so be it"

What an absolutely stupid bloody thing to say.

What an absolutely stupid bloody thing to say.

[url= http://www.iraqbodycount.org/ ]Depends on your point of view.[/url]

So you think it's OK to put troops at risk then, what if was your kid who was out there fighting? Whether the war is justified or not it gives no reason for some tit after a bit of publicity for himself to do what he likes.

So you think it's OK to put troops at risk then

I would suggest the US government did that by putting them into an immoral and illegal war for somewhat dubious reasons. Someone risking a great deal to get evidence of war crimes out into the public eye should be applauded.

It seems acceptable to wish death on soldiers on here for some reason. Personally I think wishing death on anyone is disgusting. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

Thats not what the arguement is about though, is it. The troops are there, fact. What Wikileaks has done is just let all the bloody do-gooders lose for a few days until they shuffle off and find something else to whinge about.

It seems acceptable to wish death on soldiers on here for some reason.

Are we reading the same thread? Give me 1 quote to that effect.

Move on Torminalis and try to find a thread more suited to your limited IQ. The quote I put in my first post, to which you objected, is just such an example you are after.

OK

If it puts US troops at risk so be it

bloody do-gooders

Yeah, screw human rights, screw the Iraqi/Afghan civilians, screw freedom.

I understand if you think the Americans should just be able to do what ever they choose without fear of accountability, I just disagree.

As more comes out on this, for me it is really a glasses off and a really long hard rub of my eyes and face.

Back to misadventures of Saddam's regime along with a Christian Super-power who thinks nothing of using firepower.

Wiki-leaks. Why didn't the US say 'thank you for bringing this to our attention, its disgusting' instead of their actual response.

"I understand if you think the Americans should just be able to do what ever they choose without fear of accountability, I just disagree"

Now you are beginning to look like a bit of a ****, mate.

If it puts US troops at risk so be it

That is not wishing harm on them, it is acknowledging that certain facts, when revealed may or may not increase the likelihood of some people coming to harm. A world away from wishing harm upon them.

There are clearly two wrongs here - the second though is the result from the first action. The second war and invasion of Iraq was totally and utterly wrong and for all the wrong reasons. It's clearly been proved the WMD's did not exist. The subsequent stationing of the troops was wrong, the whole saga of what happened was so wrong and the US especially should be made to face justice for their actiosn as should those from our government especially those who buried their heads in the sands when they clearly knew all those attrocities were going on and the Iraqi's were killing themselves. As a total outsider to all thsi, the programmes the BBC showed made me feel sick that a country like ours could allow this to happen and worse still, lives of our soldiers were lost for such actions. I understand that there are times when wars unfortunately have to be fought for freedom and against oppression but the second war against Iraq was NEVER that and countless lives of totally innocent children, civilians and soldiers have been lost for nothing!
The leaks by those has endangered the lives of some and is wrong but it's a wrong action for something that never should have happened in the first place.

Torminalis Bollocks.

Now you are beginning to look like a bit of a ****, mate.

Torminalis Bollocks.

Nice to STW at its intellectual best.

backhander - Member

If the yanks get wound up, there'll be more deaths on both sides plus civilians.

Probably best not to upset them then...............they sound like a right nasty bunch 😐

[i]The US and UK have condemned the leak, the largest in US military history, with both US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and the UK's Ministry of Defence suggesting the disclosures put lives at risk.[/i]

standard response from Govt, be very angry at however exposed mis treatment in a bid to deflect attention away from the actual facts, ie, the mistreatment of Iraqis. They did the same thing when the same documents were released about Afghanistan.

I have both friends and a member of family serving in Iraq and Afghanistan. At this moment in time I don't really care why they are there, more that they are there and I just want them to make it back home safely. I hear too many people harping on about the rights and wrongs of the war but never give a second thought to the people who are actually serving out there. I don't necessary agree with the war, but like everyone else on here I don't know all the facts, just what we have been drip fed by the media. As far as I am concerned anything that is done to put their life, or any other forces, at risk is simply wrong and you can argue all night but you won't convince me otherwise.

At this moment in time I don't really care why they are there

You see that might be the problem - you don't care.

Whilst the locals on the other hand, might.

How come someone you know is serving in Iraq btw......are they with the Yanks ?

Probably best not to upset them then...............they sound like a right nasty bunch

God-Father's son is in Iraq, who is an American as it happens.

Think I'll take the dog for a walk, will get more sense out of him.

I do wonder wether there has been a dramatic increase in governmental/army evil doing, or just an increase in effective communication?

Dunno where this leaves us as a race though, hopefully at a place where doing this knd of stuff becomes too costly a pr disaster.

chunkymonkey - Member

"God-Father's son is in Iraq, who is an American as it happens."

Then why is it you're angry at the leak, rather than angry at the truth that's been revealed?

Pull the troopps out sve money and lives.

EASY,

You're absolutely right ern. Insurgents start shooting at yanks because they're angry about leaks.

Ah right. Only you said "if the yanks get wound up" not "if the insurgents get wound up".
Which suggests that you were more worried yanks than the insurgents.

Although I'm a little surprised that the insurgents would get [i]"angry about leaks"[/i].......surely they would be pleased about them - no ? 😕

Or are suggesting the insurgents have to read Wikileaks to find out what is happening in their country ?

.

😕

Well done wikileaks.

In war civilian lives should be protected. So, on balance if one soldier dies because of this leak, but in future one less civilian is killed because of the leak, the net effect is positive.

That's not to devalue the life of a soldier, but wars are meant to be fought by armed forces, not civilians.

Well, I'd be very surprised if the insurgents knew everything in the leaded papers and most of the insurgents aren't iraqi anyway and generally are know by the iraqis as "the foreigners".
I'd also be concerned about ANY more pointless deaths and agree with project on this one.

[i]As far as I am concerned anything that is done to put their life, or any other forces, at risk is simply wrong and you can argue all night but you won't convince me otherwise. [/i]

i completely agree with and understand what you are saying
these leaks may surprise us with shocking abuses and tragic civillian deaths commited mainly by iraqis and ignored by us/uk troops

im sure the native population is well aware that this kind of abuse is endemic its this that fuels resentment of our troops,

forcing the us/uk administration to investigate the attrocities id like to think will improve support for the coalition troops

its just another example of the failure to prepare for defeating saddam and what would come after and understand what the sectarian divisons in the country would mean

backhander - Member

Well, I'd be very surprised if the insurgents knew everything in the leaded papers and most of the insurgents aren't iraqi anyway and generally are know by the iraqis as "the foreigners".

No I'm not having that backhander.

I'm sure the the insurgents didn't think "those Americans are really OK geezers" and were shocked to discover after reading Wikileaks, that maybe that wasn't entirely true.

[b][i]"most of the insurgents aren't iraqi anyway"[/i][/b]

😕 What's that got to do with it ?

Are you suggesting that they had forgotten why they were in Iraq until they read Wikileaks ? !

No, it was in response to;

have to read Wikileaks to find out what is happening in [b]their[/b] country ?

I'd be very surprised if the insurgents knew [b]everything[/b] in the leaded papers

There are still numerous British Military serving in Iraq; if the leaks endanger them then it is just one more risk to add to the many they already have to face. Whilst it makes me uncomfortable to say it...the price they pay so the rest of the world can know the truth is a justifiable one and I support the actions of Wikileaks.

No, it was in response to;

have to read Wikileaks to find out what is happening in their country ?

Oh I see, it was a technical point.........I should have said [i]"are suggesting the insurgents have to read Wikileaks to find out why they went to Iraq ?"[/i]

I would also be surprised if "the insurgents knew everything" btw.

Although I would be even more surprised, if they had forgotten why they were in Iraq.

The problem with with the files is that they show a single point of view. The majority of the reports are incident reports from troops, where is the document from the insurgents or the Iraqi / Afghan governments - surprise, surprise, they don't exist!

Don't blame the troops for the actions of their governments, you and I are as much to blame them. What right do we have to impose OUR values of morality on other nations - the UN conventions have been written with Western European values. We have no idea about the conditions have lived in for many years with oppressive governments and the risk of being killed every day by terrorists/insurgents. How we YOU behave in that situation? Remember it was Western Europeans who committed the largest single act of genocide in history - why do we have the moral upper hand.

Wikileaks is not about helping individuals it is about raising the profile of its founder - read the reports from his fellow workers and he comes across in a different light. There is no balance, no objectivity and the decision to release documents is taken in secret. Perhaps one day there will be an objective assessment of their behaviour, perhaps by Wikileaks?

Life is full of moral dilemmas. Which is the lesser evil: to keep the secret or risk the truth? I don,t know.

Remember it was Western Europeans who committed the largest single act of genocide in history - why do we have the moral upper hand.

hat Wikileaks has done is just let all the bloody do-gooders lose for a few days until they shuffle off and find something else to whinge about.

Just read the latest Wikileaks report in The Guardian. They have released video of two Apaches falsely claiming that they are being shot at, then opening fire on Iraqi civilians, including children and a Reuters reporter, then laughing about it, then firing on the people that arrive to help the wounded.

The US military refused to release this video under Freedom of Information.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/apr/05/wikileaks-us-army-iraq-attack

Why would that be then? What was 'secret' about it?

Do you really think casting a light on the murdering of civilians for sport is just do-gooders whinging?!?

Words fail me after watching that

I feel for the tainted image of the soldier. I can't get my head around the whole thing, but anyone who compromises the integrity and courage of honest soldiers needs weeding out. Ideally those who misuse thier position such as the Apache pilots should be dealt with internally, leaked footage could be used as propaganda in the long term. Or am I just not seeing the bigger picture???

Ideally those who misuse thier position such as the Apache pilots should be dealt with internally, leaked footage could be used as propaganda in the long term. Or am I just not seeing the bigger picture???

Except the Americans "investigated" internally, concluded there was no wrong doing then refused to release the video under Freedom Of Information.

You're right that it will be used for propaganda. But then at least if you get propaganda from both sides you can start getting a truer idea of what is happening on the ground.

I think I am struggling to accept it's going on rather than opposed to it. Such a horrific crime, I really do feel for soldiers and what they go through. Having friends in the armed forces I would hate to think thier already difficult positions were not made harder by the actions of a minority amongst them.

[i]Forget the contents - someone leaked SECRET documents. I'm sorry, but no matter what the contents, that is wrong and there is no excuse. [/i]

That's one of the strangest things I've read in a long time.

I thought now that Barak Obama was in charge, everything was going to be different.

How's that hope-y change-y thing goin' for ya?