[Closed] Weight training - to get toned and stronger but not bigger...

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/goulet5.htm

http://exercise.about.com/od/exerciseworkouts/ss/strengthmyths_2.htm

This is another myth, what I call 'The Pink Dumbbell Myth' that is often perpetuated by magazines and infomercials, convincing us that we should use lighter weights (e.g., pink dumbbells) for higher reps to tone our bodies. There's also a belief that this approach somehow burns more fat and that women should lift weights this way to avoid getting big and bulky.

The truth is that this type of strength training doesn't burn more fat and the only way it will 'tone' your body is if you've created a calorie deficit that allows you to lose body fat. Using lighter weights for higher reps will help you increase muscular endurance and it does have a place in training routines, but that lean, defined look comes from losing body fat.

muscle 'tone' is created in the kitchen not the gym - same as a six-pack

So to lose muscle size, you have to sacrifice strength. Seems pretty obvious really.

So to maintain a size... presumably you can just go for higher and higher reps?

Go heavy on your compound exercises, eat less rubbish and sleep lots.

That is basically what it boils down to.

Sure someone will be along soon to disagree and put forward an excessively complex routine 😉

you don't have to sacrifice strength. strength has a neural element and you can train that to maintain strength with 'smaller' muscle size. think of olympic weight lifting where they're in body weight categories - they have to get 'stronger' without getting heavier.

Interesting iDave. I've found this...

http://www.training4cyclists.com/strength-training-without-additional-body-mass-3/

TSY, maybe we need to take inspiration from climbers? i rarely see a 'bulky muscle' climber - most have a lot of muscle but are v slim. Only one i've seen who is bulky also looks like a gym bunny too.

I've no idea what to do now, maybe understanding my body composition report will help me get my head round what i should look to do for improvements!

Read my link! That's what you should do!

Climbers generally don't need to be that strong though, apart from grip strength.

Ok, I'll read the link. I'd disagree with climbers not needing to be strong - having done some hard (for me so anything from 5+ - 6a) overhangs, there's more to it than just grip strength - my back/shoulders hurt the next day from overhangs.

That's probably because your technique is sloppy 😉

Oi cheeky 😛

Long recovery periods between sets
When you train for neural strength you are interested in a full or almost full recovery between each set. This little move, which is a very social and comfortable time of the training session, makes it possible to keep protein degradation at minimum. It also makes you able to perform lifts at higher level, which in the final end makes you stronger. I recommend you to take a break of at least 2 minutes between sets.

2mins?! So much for me moving between sets of mountain climbers, lunges and biceps with no rest in between then!

Yeah, I figured you could do another exercise in the 'rest' period as long as it's not hitting the same muscle groups.

I thought the term 'toning' was a load of rollox?

It is. No such thing as tone. It is marketing nonsense.

If you want toned muscles, start lifting pink dumbells, reading heat magazine and eating special k.

[i]muscle 'tone' is created in the kitchen not the gym - same as a six-pack
[/i]

One of the best one-liners I've ever read on STW.
😉

[i].just look at gymnasts[/i]

boy gymnasts you mean? see iDave's comments about getting a six pack in the kitchen. in my gym (gymnastics, not weights and stuff) we were all "encouraged" not to eat much, the boys needed to obviously to maintain strength but they were given protien shakes and all sorts of v low calories diets to get and keep down to "comp weight" There's a lot of judges that will still mark up boy gymnasts with good muscle def and mark down those who look a bit chubby but still do good sets. It's not just the girls who are under pressure.

the reason i said look at gymnasts is because pound for pound their strength is comparable to any athlete if not better, male or female, plus they combine endurance, explosive strength and flexibility. i just thought something along those lines as a training plan would be great for the OP

birdo - Member
the reason i said look at gymnasts is because pound for pound their strength is comparable to any athlete if not better, male or female

More than darts players? I don't think so/

Anyone use [url= http://www.fitocracy.com/home/ ]fitocracy[/url]?

Want to increase tone in your muscles? Have a stroke - that should do the trick.

[i]they combine endurance, explosive strength and flexibility[/i]

birdo, your making me sound cool. ta

Get yourself a job putting up dry stone walls, thats the best way to do it. I cant see the point in paying to go to a gym when you could be getting paid to be out on the fells.

davidtaylforth - Member

Get yourself a job putting up dry stone walls, thats the best way to do it. I cant afford to go to a gym because I'm getting paid sod all to be out on the fells in all weather.

Only joking David

As for weights, my goal is to not bulk up, but to get that 'ripped' look. I'm losing body fat fast by cutting out crap and as I've read on the internet and been told at the gym - use the max weight that you can to achieve 10-12 reps per set. Using a lower weight and more reps, builds up lactic acid, giving a temporary appearance of definition, but this goes. To achieve retained muscle, you have to push your muscles with as much resistance as possible.

learn to campus board and work on a woody, strong like an ox and power by the bucket without additional weight gain

Long way to go yet till the perfect bod, but gone from beer gut and moobs to this in 6 weeks of sensible eating and 4 trips to the gym over the last fortnight - not been biking for months...

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third nipple ^^

Boxing training seems to have done the trick for the lads at the local club, they do some intense looking stuff, I'm just scratching the surface being old and fat, but enjoying the sessions us older gentlemen do, always amazed at the methods of torture possible without having to resort to all the fancy kit that the local gym seems to use, always plenty of banter, some bugger always farts doing side plank, once the laughing starts it's game over,
PJ.

I struggle with long sentences
Yoga for toning and strength without bulk.
Sorts out flexibility and core strength which help power on the bike too IME
And is more enjoyable & relaxing than reps in the gym IMO

iDave - I am Scaramanger, claim your five pounds - it's actually a mole, but everyone I know takes the piss and calls it a 3rd nip.

All this lower weight and higher reps stuff is utter nonsense.

Muscle tone is just muscle with an absence of fat. Less fat + muscle = muscle tone/definition. To get rid of fat you need a calorific deficit - burn more energy than you consume. Your body will metabolise fat, which will show the muscle underneath.

Blommin' hell Taz, that's some inspiring stuff right there!

How about this for a workout... although he's probably a little big for a cyclist...

I think this was filmed in the woods behind Nationwide.....

iDave - there is a link on that to a guy jumping out of a swimming pool... pretty impressive.

Anyhow, who fancies meeting up in Swindon tonight for a spot of semi-naked wrestling?

A good 5x5 program did the trick for me although I did fairly low weights for the first three sets and then pushed to failure on the last two.

Concentrating on powerlifting exercises and keeping weight high and reps low, 5 max.

I did this for about 3 months and had big increases in strength, particularly core strength and went from 70kg to 66 kg. That was on quite a calorie restricted diet with an emphasis on carbs rather than protein.

Erm guys - Muscle tone is the residual tension in a muscle, or effectively the resistance to passive stretch of said muscle. Unless you have a medical condition that reduces this you really dont want to be increasing muscle tone - hence the stroke comment.

yes SbZ, but you know in 'this context' it refers to definition

Nah - definition refers to definition. I know what it's intended to mean, doesnt mean that it's not the incorrect term to use though.

Pedantry is always important on STW 🙂

Now tone was completely the wrong term to use... even definition is.

How does one improve neural strength?

Have you decided what to do yet TSY? I'm thinking bodyweight exercises are the way to go as per my climbing comment. Think in winter climbing more would be good, and i'll mix up my weights at the gym (thinking maybe a trx workout would be good to explore too). Backing off so many hard intervals on the bike over winter should mean i can continue to fit into my size 8 trousers although doesn't help me come the summer when i want to race! 🙂

More climbing sounds like a winner from here.

First things first Dirty, I've got to build quite a bit of muscle on my right leg... quite shocking how much has gone in just 4 weeks 🙁
Made it through my first RPM (well 30mins) yesterday, and doing the exercises the physio gave me all the time, fingers crossed I can gain at the same speed I lost.

I'll stick with cricuits, yoga and kettle bells. Add back in climbing, plus some olympic rings stuff as suggested above. Hopefully fit in some 5x5 really heavy stuff for the legs too.

Then I just need to factor in swimming, cycling and running 🙂

I'm surprised at what i lost and didn't lose during my trip, and oddly not struggling at climbing either. Don't seem to have lost much of my high end speed/fitness though - i overtook two roadies doing 38kph 8) Was pretty tired by the end of a short fast ride though, would be nice to get the speed back in my legs too.

Didn't realise you'd actually gone to physio for your leg...must have been really bad!

if you are really serious on yr aim of 20reps(or any reps)of pull ups with 20kg above body weight you really need to make sure you also work the antagonistic muscles to yr lats and do some serious stretching to avoid long term injury - if you are looking at doing this to improve lock - off strength for climbing might be better off googling frenchies (careful!) and typewriters these are hanging exercises that improve recruitment aka power

Just get to the bloody gym and do some work!

antigee - what is the antagonist of latissimus dorsi?

antigee - what is the antagonist of latissimus dorsi?

i guess not quite the right terminology - i guess antagonistic exercises might be better term to use like military or shoulder presses, bench presses and for triceps - dips, cable pushdowns and rotator cuff stuff to help stabilise shoulders - full anatomical detail i'd need help on - the need to do some work on stuff other than the pulling muscles like lats and teres is the point especially if doing that sort of load