[Closed] We think we know people, but then they have secrets....

Very few on here, we have jive what's his name to warn us and he does this at great length.

Kid I went to school with from right through until I was 18, even doing the same A levels in a small class (of 5) decided to take the honourable route & became a teacher.

A few years ago, we were looking at a 15yr reunion, and it turned out he was in prison for banging a couple of the pupils inside & outside of school.

He wasn't a weirdo when I knew him...

Blimey, that's shocking.

I received some news yesterday that directly affects me. Was surprised, angry and plenty of other emotions. Never expected it of the person concerned.

Am old enough that I shouldn't be surprised by anything any more.

Yes i knew a straightup nice guy who disappeared one day: now in prison for child pornography but police moved in when he arranged to meet up with a child he groomed online who was really a police/ceops officer.

Also knew someone who it turns out had disappeared from his old job as care worker for young adults with learning difficulties after he got one of the residents pregnant. He seemed the nicest guy ever, I and friends who knew him would never have guessed until by chance seone from his 'old life' hundreds of miles away bumped into him and blew the whistle on him still doing similar work.

Psychopathology of paedophiles is most interesting if worrying stuff. I can well see how people would never guess in many cases.

Not me personally but a fella I know went to court the other day to watch one of his (now former) best mates get sentenced for a similar crime. Apparently he had been filming his 12 year old step daughter in the bath!

The lad I know was sickened that he'd got so close to someone so evil but he said he'd never have thought it.

OP, we read about it all the time - but I think it's pretty well known that paedophiles are better than most at hiding their true nature - and though you feel shocked about it, they pull the wool over the eyes of the sharpest of us.

You cannot always read people for this reason, there are many people have something hidden which you will never know about unless it is exposed. While some people that come across as being a bit of a weirdo and labelled as odd in some way are the most normal and trust worthy around but they are often socially excluded.

How can people hide like that?

I do read people well. But I missed this.

I guess that's what I don't get. When presented with proper evil, I missed it. And it worries me. We had talked about all sorts over the years. Even quitting the rat race and setting up doing something different. He was a good mate.

Never in a million years could I have seen, or guessed, that he'd be doing this sort of nonsense (words aren't ideal as the swear filter will find what I feel).

It makes me question everything. How many other friends are weirdos, peados, murderers? ****s me off I can't tell (and do something about).

When I was a kid I did the whole confirmation thing.
Our local Vicar that we knew for years led the lessons. Everyone thought he was lovely, generous and genuine. I thought he was quiet cool at the lessons and often arrived early so it was just him and me chatting.

Few months into confirmation he just disappeared from the parish. No warning, no explanation. Turns out he was a pedophile and had also been abusing children. Everyone was shocked. No one could ever see it.

If it really was as easy as "reading people" you would be employed by the police and we would live in a crime free world, where the only locks required where on cell doors. Unfortunately we live in a world of deception and crime.

How can people hide like that?

not only are they perverts but also experts in manipulation and the art of lying to conceal the truth

 

Im a firm believer in theres no such thing as a "normal" person.

they are very skilled at just not mentioning anything about that part of their life

I worked in care for over a decade
Statistically I must have worked with abusers as they chose this profession
I have not the faintest idea who they were as there is no sign to "read".

I guess this means I have been deceived but,unlike you , I dont know who by.

I'm sure most people pride themselves on being able to spot people who are deviant or evil. But I guess the truth is if we were all so good at spotting these people they'd never get away with anything. I suspect people who harbor urges like this are much better at disguising it than good people are at detecting it.

I mentioned recently in another thread how a swimming instructor at my school turned out to be a child molester. That didn't surprise me.

EDIT: I should mention to the op, don't beat yourself up about it. My uncle is a very senior Garda (Irish police) and he rarely discusses cases, but when he's had a few drinks he lets the odd bit of information slide. He's told me on a few occaisions how some people can be masters of hiding things like this often their whole lives are a lie constructed around their sexual appetite.

I thought I knew my Dad, but a few years after he died my Mum told me that he had a child by an earlier marriage - in the 38 years I knew him he gave absolutely no clue to me that he had either been married before or had another child. She apparently lived in the same city where I grew up, and apparently all my relatives seemed to know about this apart from me, and according to my cousin he still had contact with her.

No. Unfortunately I've come in contact not with the people themselves but with the people who work with them on a reasonably regular basis over the last 20 years and I can tell you that none of them saw anything untoward.

The last chap, I spoke to two of his co-workers during the investigation, they both felt they were good friends with him, took their families round to his house, considered him a quality guy, utterly trustworthy, nothing at all over the years to suggest he was anything other than a great guy. He was convicted and prisoned for a fairly long time not so long ago for various offenses.

These people are good at hiding the truth, it's how they get away with things for so long.

I went to school with a couple of brothers, Jimmy was two years above me and Ritchie was the year above. Ritchie was nuts, didn't know Jimmy too well at school but after we left we all ended up as part of a large loose knit group of friends or friends of friends who'd always end up in the same clubs, drink at the same pubs and end up at the same parties at the weekends after clubbing. Jimmy was a great lad, a good laugh, always enjoyed meeting up with him wherever we'd end up. There were rumours their dad had abused them as kids but I never took much notice although looking back at Ritchie you could kind of imagine it.

They drove black cabs at an unusually young age as their dad had a few of them and Jimmy would always tell us stories about girls he's had in the cab and stories of things hed get up to at nights when he was working with this girl or that.

I buggered off to Ibiza for most of the next decade and hooked up with my missus so lost touch with nearly all those old friends.

Then a few years ago a story appeared in the local paper. Must have been over 15 years since I last saw him.

I was gutted. I always liked Jimmy, but maybe there was more to all those old encounters he used to tell us about....

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/evil-past-taxi-rapist-james-3454755

Selfishly they don't wear tshirts that say "I'm a Paedo" or "Hey.....fancy a bit of rohipnol"

If you are doing stuff like this you will be good at hiding it. They know it's wrong so they will create a lie around what they are doing so it's no surprise that people don't notice. Also people think other people act like they do....so if you wouldn't do it you expect other people won't either.

When interviewed friends of psycho's, paedos, etc never say "what a freakin' weirdo...always knew he was a wrong 'un"

Don't wish to trivialise this, but none of my friends know that I like a small effigy of Sir William Tell shoved up my bottom just prior to sex.

Or maybe it really gets me going when I see a one-legged woman eating an apple.

Am I joking? Yes.

But see how easy it is to not tell anyone anything even mildly embarrasing or socially unacceptable? I'm not a master of disguise or the very embodiment of evil.

You cannot always read people for this reason, there are many people have something hidden which you will never know about unless it is exposed.

This was somebody I used to work with.

[url] http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/6255234.stm [/url]

He didn't turn up to work for a while then somebody found the newspaper article and put it up on the noticeboard! Knew he was a bit odd and couldn't stand him personally but never would have guessed what he was upto in his spare time 😯

Used to hang around with a couple of lads when I was around 15 - Ben & Steve. Someone broke into student digs at the local uni, wearing a balaclava and raped a girl at knife point. I think there were 3 rapes all together. Local papers were full of it. Ben got arrested one Friday night for a pub fight. During the questioning he obviously said something, because he ended up being charged with the rapes. We were all pretty sickened obviously, but during the trial there was talk of an accomplice. Various people got questioned but nothing ever came of it.

Lost touch with most of the lads over the years, but last year an old mate messaged me and asked if I remembered Steve. Then he sent me[url= http://www.murdermap.co.uk/pages/cases/case.asp?CID=364466782&Case=Upper-Norwood-murder:-Siobhan-Kelly ]this[/url]. Pretty much answered the original question in my mind.

But to be honest, it was never much of a secret that those 2 were nuts.

[url= http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/pervert-pensioner-back-behind-bars-after-trial-1.472592 ]Met this guy once, took an instant dislike to him![/url]
A biking buddie/workmate had been telling us about this amazing/interesting guy he had met. On a ride he popped out of a forest road and we stopped, chatted etc. during our conversation he changed the subject every time he realised I was questioning him on what he was talking about(my local area v him being a newcomer)
Few weeks later my suspicions were proven!!
MrsT was a Scottish children's panel volunteer for a number of years and can vouch for some of the comments above re how " nice " some of these people come across, it's not only kids who are groomed 🙄

Everyone seems normal till you get to know them!

It's pretty horrendous and sickening to right minded folk but what clues are you supposed to be looking for in identifying someone who has a sexual interest in children? Are they supposed to look a certain way, have certain mannerisms? I'm not sure what nuance you were hoping to pick up on that would have given the game away.

Dressed as a school?

Sorry, serious subject, I'll get my coat...

DrRS**** - Member
How can people hide like that?

I do read people well. But I missed this.

I guess that's what I don't get. When presented with proper evil, I missed it. And it worries me

Don't be so hard on yourself but also don't assume you know people by "reading" them.

I harbour desires to own a road bike....

Well, no-one is "out" as a paedophile to anyone they socialise with who isn't also a paedophile, because prison.

Incidentally, while we're on the subject, this is important (if ick): [url= http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/SavageLove?oid=12927907 ]"gold star" paedophiles[/url]

Tom and I became friends at the school I trained in. Same age as me, sharp, witty, gay and a bit of an diva, but nonetheless there were a group of us young teachers that hit it off. I even helped him move.

http://www.batleynews.co.uk/news/local/teacher-had-3-000-child-porn-pictures-1-1331751

And in the same school, John was the HoD for Maths. Heavily involved in youth football in Liversedge and Cleckheaton, he ran some of the football teams at BBEC. He had also mentored me in my GTP year.

http://www.examiner.co.uk/news/west-yorkshire-news/kirklees-teacher-jonathan-craven-14000-8362477

I had no idea, not even an inkling, as to their perversions. I'm currently one of the DCPC's for my school, and have always had a suspicious nature, but I missed these two. Haunts me to think that I might have inadvertantly put students in harms way during my career, but at the end of the day a career in education will always be appealing for predators.

My tutor. I didn't particularly like him but had no idea what he was really like.

http://www.****/news/article-475957/Teacher-filmed-pupils-underwear-class.html

From a slightly different angle, a lady I knew (successful neurologist) who seemed happy and content with life, 5 small children, nice husband etc hung herself one afternoon. I don't think there had been any signs whatsoever of her unhappiness.

I'm bi-polar, a fact that would surprise even close friends who I haven't told (there are few I have). Us mentals can be excellent at hiding our problems*. People who think they are good at reading people so often aren't. If you have something you want to hide, you put so much more effort into covering it up than someone else will put into "reading" them.

*STW fact - paddedfreddibnah probably saved my life by reading into my posts on here and emailing me out of the blue with support.

It's because, objectively, there is no evil. It is just a perception.
These people just perform some acts society deems criminal at this point in time.
To those people the acts seem normal and right although they realise they are considered criminal so hide them.
Some of the things linked to wouldn't be criminal in some other parts of the world today.

If forums existed 100 years ago this same thread could be about people who are secretly gay.
Or it could be a forum inside ISIS right now. They throw homosexuals off buildings.

So, why would it affect their advice to you on which Volkswagen diesel engine to go for in your new car?

I'm not condoning the acts or trying to bring up a discussion on how you define criminal sexual acts, but it is just a certain, small part of their lives, deliberately hidden. It's very presumptuous to think you could intuit it from their other behaviours.

I thought I knew my Dad, but a few years after he died my Mum told me that he had a child by an earlier marriage - in the 38 years I knew him he gave absolutely no clue to me that he had either been married before or had another child. She apparently lived in the same city where I grew up, and apparently all my relatives seemed to know about this apart from me, and according to my cousin he still had contact with her.

@Philby, I have a 21 y/o daughter by a previous relationship. I see her rarely as we've lived in different countries since she was three, but I call her on birthdays and Christmas, and will be going to her Uni graduation in a couple of month's time. I haven't mentioned her existence to my other daughter, now 10, although most of family & friends are well aware of it. I haven't consciously kept it secret from others, I just don't deliberately talk about it as it's a painful part of my life. People can be so judgemental, so I've only really felt comfortable sharing it with people who have been through similar, and can understand the complexities (and a bunch of perfect strangers on a bike forum!!).

I don't like having secrets from my daughter, and this is probably the only one, but have told myself (rightly or wrongly) that there hasn't yet been the right time to burst that bubble that she's my one and only child, and let her in on the messiness of adult relationships. It doesn't help that she's always wanted an older sister, but my other daughter doesn't want to see her - as some kind of punishment to me for 'abandoning' her but doting on her sister. I know it'd break her heart to know she has an older sister and then be shunned by her.

So, don't be too hard on your Dad, and I'm sure you did 'know' him in all other respects, and he had his reasons for keeping this one part of his life from you, and probably struggled with it constantly like I do. I have no idea whether I'm doing the right thing 'protecting' my daughter from this, and when would be the right time to tell her, which I definitely intend to at some point.

As someone who's been on the other end of this, and if it's not too awkward for you to share it on a public forum, I'd be interested in your advice. Would you rather your Dad told you? At what age do you think you'd have been able to handle it? Have you since got in touch with your sibling and has it worked out? Thanks.

I'm not condoning the acts or trying to bring up a discussion on how you define criminal sexual acts, but it is just a certain, small part of their lives, deliberately hidden. It's very presumptuous to think you could intuit it from their other behaviours.

Not sure I'd agree with your final point; the compulsion to carry out the act usually overrides caution, which can lead to patterns and trends emerging. Trouble is, by that stage, you're dealing with reactive measures, rather than predictive/proactive strategies...

I don't really get the op to be honest. What were you expecting? Shifty eyes?

Reading people is your intuition neatly sorting people into preconceived compartments, it's how the brain works with everything. 'He looks dodgy', or 'he looks ok'. etc.
But it's influenced by prejudice and all kinds of other things, and very easily fooled. See also Catholic Priests with a penchant for small boys.
You don't 'know' someone by 'reading' them.

People lie to themselves - anything from 'I'm not harming anyone' upwards. And once they've successfully lied to themselves it's a lot easier to lie to everyone else. And they can totally compartmentalise their lives.

I've never spotted anyone who messed with kids or was criminal in that way. But I lived with someone who was like two people. He had a level of self-delusion and self-justification that was difficult to comprehend. He would outright deny that he'd done stuff to me to the extent I even questioned myself. And on the outside he was charming and charismatic, kind and generous to everyone he knew.

It took me absolutely ages to come to the conclusion that he lived in a state of denial, he wouldn't own the nasty side at all. He was basically a contradiction. But now stories of people who live 'double lives' don't surprise me.

Trekster - Member
Met this guy once, took an instant dislike to him!

He used to hang about my hometown when I was young! 😯

Dressed as a school?

Sorry, serious subject, I'll get my coat...

Nah your right - KF's gonna be in an area with his prey.

Its a tricky thing thou as its easy to get into witch hunts and tbh the media love to stir all this...

I think that part of the problem and the reason a lot of sick people got into positions of power in the 70s is that we expect there to be something obviously different or other about them. Whereas the reality is that predatory paedophiles and other deviants can be be just as banally ordinary as the rest of us .

My mentor at work fleeced the company for £250,000 and used it to set up a stud farm in his wife's name. Killed himself when released on Police bail. His 9 year old son came into the office to collect his dad's personal effects and asked me if I'd known his dad. I told him his dad had been a really nice bloke and a friend to me.

I grew up a lot that day, one way and another.

Not really the same but I would like to also point out how the general public can be so two faced about people they know to be bad news.

For example. I went through school (Nursery to secondry) with a total barmpot of a lad. He started off with normal naughty stuff of a teenager but then progressed to some rather bad stuff with drugs, steroids and basically beating the crap out of anyone and everyone he came into contact with. I once heard a story of him abroad wanting to score some drugs. Aproached dealer and just beat the living crap out of him and walked off with his money and drugs (We can laugh about it being no issue but its not normal behaviour is it).

Anyhow, the guy recently 'died in his sleep' before he hit 40yrs old. There has been an outcry of grief from many of my old pals about the loss. The fight in his head is over, gentle giant is sleeping etc etc. I cant get past the fact he was a complete scumbag.

If someone lives their lives as a scumbag, they deserve to be remembered as such.

went to school with

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beverley_Allitt

I know it's not quite the same as the OP, but a guy I went to school with murdered his girlfriend in 2007. Smashed her head in with a hammer 🙁

Totally shocked when I found out:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bradford/6496885.stm

He's far left of this pic, I'm on the far right (leaning on the arse!)

[img] [/img]

This is my friend's Dad, I wasn't entirely shocked to hear it, but the scale of it surprised me:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-humber-19437177

Hmm None of the people I know or have known to my knowledge have been found guily of owt. Which means they're probably still at 'it'.
<looks closely at colleagues>
yep, its going to be that one.

[quote=woody2000 ]He's far left of this pic

He looks so innocent. Well dodgy looking chap on the right though, I'd watch out for him.