[Closed] We have progress - Labour supports Free Schools and more Academies

So, labour are in favour of increased bureaucracy and reduced social mobility. Brilliant.

well if he does he looses my vote.

If we get a good free school or two in Haringey they are going to be over-run by applications.

And what if you get the more likely bad free schools, set up by religious nut-jobs using the ready made lobby of the gullible that exists in churches and mosques.

If we get a good free school or two in Haringey they are going to be over-run by applications.

And what if you get the more likely bad free schools, set up by religious nut-jobs using the ready made lobby of the gullible that exists in churches and mosques.

Well I would exercise my right not to send my kids to it and choose another one. I mean do you think I'm stupid or something?

the problem with free schools is that their budget just gets taken out of the money already allocated to existing schools in that area, so if you have a 'failing' school already they now have less money so instead of driving standards up it just make the rest worse!

I think the point of them is exactly that. Failing schools will close or be taken over by more successful ones. Failing teachers will be sacked.

The unions aren't going to like this Stephen!

Well I would exercise my right not to send my kids to it and choose another one

You seem pretty gullible to spin and dogma, so I am not so sure you would.

I mean do you think I'm stupid or something?

That's a rather nicely fitting cap your wearing!

the problem with free schools is that their budget just gets taken out of the money already allocated to existing schools in that area, so if you have a 'failing' school already they now have less money so instead of driving standards up it just make the rest worse!

I suppose it depends if you class "failing" on a exam result basis as Tories are quick to do. Real life is far more complicated.

mcboo i think your right but when the 'yobs' from the failed and now closed school roll up at the free school are they really goning to let them in? I dont think so and where do they go then?

mcboo i think your right but when the 'yobs' from the failed and now closed school roll up at the free school are they really goning to let them in? I dont think so and where do they go then?

They aren't yobs. They are children. Let's make state schools so good that people won't even consider having to put their kids in private schools, that would be for the good of everyone. No more soft A levels, streaming within schools (no return to grammars) and let head teachers hire and fire their own staff. Hopefully we are on the way to this, even here in N.London.

let head teachers hire and fire their own staff

can they not do this now? This utopia sounds brilliant I just need some convincing that Free schools are the answer.

They aren't yobs. They are children.

Sorry but what fing planet do you live on?

how much exposure have you had to the wonders of kids where the parents don't give a s, where teachers get abused by pupils and parents?

let head teachers hire and fire their own staff
can they not do this now? This utopia sounds brilliant I just need some convincing that Free schools are the answer.

Of course they can't. Thats the whole problem right there, everything is centrally controlled by the Local Education Authority. What kind of dynamism do you think you get from Haringey LEA?

Sorry but what fing planet do you live on?

how much exposure have you had to the wonders of kids where the parents don't give a s, where teachers get abused by pupils and parents?

Well going to a local comprehensive for a start. What's with the demonising of kids? Anyone else you want to hate? You sound lovely.

more free schools means more religious schools,

means more religious/ethnic segregation.

and more religio-crap like 'intelligent design' being taught instead of actual science.

awesome, that's progress, that'll help.

and it'll be done with tax-payers money. thanks.

So ban religion from schools, just like America. I'd vote for that. But that's a poor excuse for resisting reform.

labour are in favour of increased bureaucracy and reduced social mobility

So ban religion from schools, just like America. I'd vote for that. But that's a poor excuse for resisting reform.

the reform we're getting is [s]designed to increase segregation, and ignorance.[/s] rubbish.

if i wasn't wearing this tin-foil hat i'd be sure of a greater conspiracy...

ive worked as a youth leader in haringey and maybe some of the kids are yobs but their still kids

free schools in principle are a good idea, in practice youll just get more money taken out of the system and poured into the middle class schools and in harringey thats gonna leavesome struggling schools in a very bad position, and who is going to eant to come in and take over a struggling haringey school full of yobs?

as for the religous thing, we should be outlawing religion in schools, not encouraging it, secularisation, creationism etc etc

as of april this year 7 out of 10 free school applications were from faith groups
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2011/apr/22/limit-forces-faith-join-humanists-religious

My ex teaches in a Haringey school, where she holds responsibility for literacy. I cannot see any way where free schools would, or could cope with the financial pressures of providing education, resources and support for the huge range of ethnicities in the borough, and the associated language problems where there might be half a dozen primary languages in one class.

All I can see is that the free schools will provide for (cherry pick) those with English as a first language, and exacerbate the marginalisation of kids from non English speaking backgrounds. In Haringey this is a particular problem because of the diversity of the population.

more religio-crap like 'intelligent design' being taught instead of actual science.

Which faith schools do that in the UK then ?

Well done, mcboo - at least you're consistent.

Having just done a promo job for how wonderful and more efficient an even more marketised NHS would be, you now turn your attentions to education. Let the market rip, let the evil LEA bureaucrats wither and die in the cold light of consumer choice, and let's have social darwinism in all our schools - but it's a short step here from survival of the fittest to survival of the fattest wallets, and parentwise that's what we will see as free schools take hold.

Still, the other side of 'no state to hold back the enlightened wealthy' is 'strong state to pen in and criminalise the ungrateful proles' - what'll it be? Barbed wire around Brixton? Towers to watch over the good folk of Tower Hamlets? Night patrols and curfews to pick up any kids out in working class areas after 10pm?

What fun.................

No doubt the next area of social policy you'll pronounce upon is (while we're on the subject of curfews) what the market can do for the criminal justice system. Private police forces anyone?

Private police forces anyone?

And then we can return to private fire and rescue,

i mean it worked the last time, and the many fires in medeval London weren't all that really.

mrmo - Member

Private police forces anyone?

And then we can return to private fire and rescue,

i mean it worked the last time, and the many fires in medeval London weren't all that really.

Boris is doing his best with Coleman to privatise the London Fire Brigade control centre...

And here we have the very definition of the Straw Man.

Still, the other side of 'no state to hold back the enlightened wealthy' is 'strong state to pen in and criminalise the ungrateful proles' - what'll it be? Barbed wire around Brixton? Towers to watch over the good folk of Tower Hamlets? Night patrols and curfews to pick up any kids out in working class areas after 10pm?

this is what City Academies are doing. Even the New Statesman can't deny their success and popularity with parents.

http://www.newstatesman.com/education/2011/10/school-wilshaw-mossbourne

Yes that's right....Hackney has a successful new state school, let's have some of the same in N8. And the left wing dogma that has been failing poor kids in the name of equality can wither and die.

I think there are a couple of serious issues here, the first Is the presumption that having attended a school you have the required knowledge and understanding of pedagogy and educational systems to comment on 'failing schoools'; in a similar vein to my visit to the doctors to have my in growing toenail looked at gives me a sound reckoning of medical science and the NHS.

The second issue is more serious, I work in an LA where we are one of the only Comps left and statistically, based on examination raw data, we are failing. Ofsted rates our teaching and learning as Good with Outstanding features paradoxically. We are surrounded by Academies and deal with their fall out. Academy heads can't only get rid of the staff they want to but kids too, we see that all the time. Academy is set up, difficult element is turfed out, time and time again. We're left to pick up the pieces and so our behaviour issues and academic success is constantly challenged. Our teachers are excellent but that will never be perceived externally because the kids we deal with are so difficult, as a product principally of their backgrounds.

I've thought of another thing! The PFI model of Academies is a good way to pour money down the drain. I have never witnessed a more disgraceful waste of tax payers money (TM) than when private finance gets involved in education.

Academies and free schools solve the problem of difficult kids for the masses but they don't solve the issue, they just create sink schools, vilified for poor teaching when in fact the teachers are dealing with the most challenging in our society. I've seen teachers from private schools take on our kids and it's frankly laughable, I haven't seen such bumbling since my NQT year.

Let comprehensives teach their wards without the inane intervention of the populist 'comps are crap' nonsense, no one else is volunteering to teach those kids the free schools and academies don't want.

Here endeth the lesson....

Of course they can't. Thats the whole problem right there, everything is centrally controlled by the Local Education Authority

your wrong on this.

I work in an LA where we are one of the only Comps left and statistically, based on examination raw data, we are failing. Ofsted rates our teaching and learning as Good with Outstanding features paradoxically

no paradox here, just tougher kids and your right most private school teachers wouldnt have a clue what to do when faced with kids who lack motivation and social skills.